SOTM USB card vs PPAstudio USB Card v2

[Inbest]

By reading many positive reviews for PPAstudio USB card, I finally got one from Paul Pang a month ago. Based on my good experience with his sata cables, I was very excited that it might improve my CAT system by replacing my SOTM USB card like other reviews said.

 

 

my first impression with PPAstusio USB card was it provides a very different sound than SOTM card. I tried to make myself focus on the main strength of the PPA card pointed out by the reviews. I do agreed to many of them but not most of them. I think it is caused by system difference itself along.

 

 

I stared to think it might be because it needs sometime to burn in, so it can completely brings out all it's goodness. I let my system run 3 days all day long, and after 3 days, the card really started to stand out.

 

 

i stared to compare SOTM card with PPA card by switching them again and again. I found PPA card can not really outperform the SOTM card. It is true that at some certain areas, PPA does have its strength over SOTM card but in general SOTM card provide a much more analog musical sound. The PPA card tends to perform in a HiFi stand.

 

 

The most important reason I choose to stay with SOTM card was because the PPA card tends to provide a shallow bass while SOTM card can provide a deeper bass. I can not stand shallow bass sound at all, because it will make the music sound unrealistic and I will get very annoyed if I listen to it for long time.

 

For all that said, SOTM costs much more than PPA card. PPA card in turns of C/P value is unbeatable.

[joelha]

My experience has been completely different.

 

The PPA card is hands down the better card.

 

I'm curious if anyone else has the same as you've had.

 

Joel

[Inbest]

I think it really depends on the differences of system. Some might find PPA better. Some might find SOTM better. In my system, SOTM does sound better than PPA.

 

Especially the bass. SOTM can provide a bass deep and down while PPA's bass isn't deep at all.

 

After a while, I actually can not stand to PPA card for more than 5 mints listening because I will feel very annoyed.

[barrows]

My experience has been completely different.

 

The PPA card is hands down the better card.

 

I'm curious if anyone else has the same as you've had.

 

Joel

 

HAHAHAHA! I laugh at this nonsense. OK, let's take a quick look at this comparison from a technical perspective. What can a USB output card effect in the context of an asynchronous USB DAC on the receiving end? There are two things, the data itself, and the noise. That is all there is. A very, very strong argument can be made that the data in everyone's system here is actually perfect. There is no error correction with USB audio, if there were data errors, they would be audible in the form of dropouts, or small clicks. So all that is left is noise.

Without some very precise measurements, relying solely on subjective listening, there is no way one can actually determine which card has less noise on its output. In the context of imperfect audio systems, subjective listening will only determine which card sounds better to you IN YOUR (imperfect) SYSTEM.

Certain jitter spectrums can soften the sound of the playback system, an imperfect system which has the tendency to sound hard (in my experience any system which relies on IC opamps anywhere in the chain, among many other causes) may sound subjectively better with higher jitter levels, caused by noise on the USB interface, for example. This is just one possible example, of how worse performing USB card might sound better.

 

Now consider the technical differences between the PPA card and the SOtM card: The PPA card is an off the shelf USB card, developed and designed by a standard commercial, mass market computer company, with a few mods. OTOH, the SOtM card is a purpose built, high end USB output card designed and engineered from the ground up for one purpose only, to provide the absolutely best USB audio output possible.

 

The PPA card may sound better in certain systems, but this does not mean it is "hands down the better card", in fact, I would submit that if it sounds better, it is very likely that there are problems to be addressed elsewhere in the system which the PPA card is glossing over.

[firedog]

There's also the new JCAT (JPlay) USB card JCAT | JPLAY - hi-end audio player for Windows which some who have heard it say is better than both. It looks interesting.

 

Apparently Item Audio in the UK is bringing out their own solution later this year. So choices will abound.

[drez]

There's also the new JCAT (JPlay) USB card JCAT | JPLAY - hi-end audio player for Windows which some who have heard it say is better than both. It looks interesting.

 

Apparently Item Audio in the UK is bringing out their own solution later this year. So choices will abound.

 

Yeah that should be interesting - strange the standout point from the original SOTM PCi card I remember was the bass, which to my ears sounded fuller with better bloom. Due to the lesser gear I was using at the time I can't really trust the other impressions I had. I also wonder about how the latency of PCIE will compare to the latency of PCI and whether the newer CPU with PCIE controller on the die will be better than chipset PCIE lanes or legacy PCI.

 

I have preordered the JCAT card - I tend to think that with digital gear, especially computer parts, good engineering is more important than audiophile features and parts. Things like ground lifting I have found to be of no benefit, and +5V lifting can be done with a piece of electrical tape... I would like to compare to the SoTM at some point though as due to DAC differences cards might be unpredictable.

[joelha]

HAHAHAHA! I laugh at this nonsense. OK, let's take a quick look at this comparison from a technical perspective. What can a USB output card effect in the context of an asynchronous USB DAC on the receiving end? There are two things, the data itself, and the noise. That is all there is. A very, very strong argument can be made that the data in everyone's system here is actually perfect. There is no error correction with USB audio, if there were data errors, they would be audible in the form of dropouts, or small clicks. So all that is left is noise.

Without some very precise measurements, relying solely on subjective listening, there is no way one can actually determine which card has less noise on its output. In the context of imperfect audio systems, subjective listening will only determine which card sounds better to you IN YOUR (imperfect) SYSTEM.

Certain jitter spectrums can soften the sound of the playback system, an imperfect system which has the tendency to sound hard (in my experience any system which relies on IC opamps anywhere in the chain, among many other causes) may sound subjectively better with higher jitter levels, caused by noise on the USB interface, for example. This is just one possible example, of how worse performing USB card might sound better.

 

Now consider the technical differences between the PPA card and the SOtM card: The PPA card is an off the shelf USB card, developed and designed by a standard commercial, mass market computer company, with a few mods. OTOH, the SOtM card is a purpose built, high end USB output card designed and engineered from the ground up for one purpose only, to provide the absolutely best USB audio output possible.

 

The PPA card may sound better in certain systems, but this does not mean it is "hands down the better card", in fact, I would submit that if it sounds better, it is very likely that there are problems to be addressed elsewhere in the system which the PPA card is glossing over.

 

Barrows,

 

I'm trying to decide which is more impressive, the arrogance of your message or your inability to focus on only six words out of a message comprising only three lines.

 

I said "my experience has been completely different".

 

Why is that qualification so hard for you to understand?

 

Joel

[JakovH]

Rather than have a heated discussion over this, will the experienced SOtM fellows jump into my help thread and help jump start my card

 

Pretty please.

[coxhaus]

I am very interested in this discussion as I am on the fence on buying one of these USB cards.

[TJHUB]

I've owned both the SOtM PCI and PCIe cards, and I now run the PPA v2 cards. For all 3 cards, the only real improvement was clarity and all the good stuff that comes along with clarity. I don't remember hearing things like more or less bass, or a fuller or thinner presentation of the sound. I think the PPA card is smoother, or more analog in its presentation, while the SOtM cards were a little grainy at times. IMO, either of these cards is necessary for better sound.

 

For or me, the PPA is the easy winner due to the price. The SOtM offers nothing over the PPA for an additional $220 plus shipping. My DAC doesn't use the +5V from the USB cable, so maybe that has something to do with my findings.

 

All that said, what gives the absolute best sound is running Windows Server 2012 in Core mode with Audiophile Optimizer. The improvement in clarity, tone, imaging, etc. is hugely improved, and the best I've ever heard. I could not get my PCIe SOtM card to work in Core mode, so I moved on. My PPA card works flawlessly.

 

For the record, Paul recommends 200 hours to fully break in the PPA card. I'd get it that far, then compare again. Pick the card you like best, and be happy.

[InfernoSTi]

I have the original PPA card and it is far better than the previous USB solution (not an audio dedicated model). It adds a ton of clarity (or subtracts a ton of noise) vs. an off the shelf USB card. I would hate to speculate as to what the proper measurements would be to explain the difference but it may be more than one factor, including getting the USB off the main bus, getting better power separation (I use a nice linear power supply for the PPA USB), and/or jitter reduction (DAC dependent). Perhaps it is something else we are not measuring...

 

Best,

John

[Inbest]

PPA card does provide more clarity than SOTM like many other reviews indicated.

 

But like I said, the bass with PPA card is very shallow, superficial and inflated. When a system does not have a good deep and profound bass to be a foundation of its sound, no matter how clarity it is, it will annoyed me.

 

For those who have both cards, please focus on the bass instead of the clarity when you are comparing them.

 

I wonder very much if this happens just in my system.

[TJHUB]

PPA card does provide more clarity than SOTM like many other reviews indicated.

 

But like I said, the bass with PPA card is very shallow, superficial and inflated. When a system does not have a good deep and profound bass to be a foundation of its sound, no matter how clarity it is, it will annoyed me.

 

For those who have both cards, please focus on the bass instead of the clarity when you are comparing them.

 

I wonder very much if this happens just in my system.

 

I was trying to address your post in my post. I don't recall any differences in bass presentation. I certainly don't have any issues now with my PPA card. Your bass comments between the two cards seems odd to me, and not similar to my experience.

 

What operating system do you use? What player? What are the specs of your computer? What speakers do you have?

[InfernoSTi]

PPA card does provide more clarity than SOTM like many other reviews indicated.

 

But like I said, the bass with PPA card is very shallow, superficial and inflated.

 

As stated, I don't have the two to compare. To me with the PPA, the clarity translates to the bass equally. I would not describe the bass as shallow, superficial or inflated. In contrast, my bass is very realistic. I would use the words detailed, extended, and articulate. People say it sounds like the upright bass is in the room when they hear the system, for example. It is easy to tell the bass drum hit from the bass electric guitar or acoustic bass. It all sounds unique and articulate, not blurred, bloated, or weak.

 

Again, I have not compared and, even so, as stated it might be system dependent.

 

Best,

John

[Priaptor]

And now after God knows how many iterations, I have found what I believe will let me forget about "the computer" in the (not yet perfect) streaming UMT+ player from MSB. I have been comparing it to my ZUMA with Phil optimized Core Server 2012 with Pang and with SOTM and while I thought my Zuma + Phil + Light Harmonics was fantastic, I can't go back after hearing what MSB has accomplished with the UMT+.

 

At this point I am not a buyer of it because of certain limitations of the OPPO chipset that they use for rendering but they are definitely on the right track with buffered PROI2S solution.

[joelha]

Priaptor,

 

Interesting information.

 

Do you find the MSB unit to be superior in server mode or also in disc playing mode?

 

Joel

[TJHUB]

And now after God knows how many iterations, I have found what I believe will let me forget about "the computer" in the (not yet perfect) streaming UMT+ player from MSB. I have been comparing it to my ZUMA with Phil optimized Core Server 2012 with Pang and with SOTM and while I thought my Zuma + Phil + Light Harmonics was fantastic, I can't go back after hearing what MSB has accomplished with the UMT+.

 

At this point I am not a buyer of it because of certain limitations of the OPPO chipset that they use for rendering but they are definitely on the right track with buffered PROI2S solution.

 

Sorry, but why post this here? It has no relevance to the original post.

[Priaptor]

Priaptor,

 

Interesting information.

 

Do you find the MSB unit to be superior in server mode or also in disc playing mode?

 

Joel

 

Joel,

 

When you say "server mode" I am assuming you mean the streaming feature of the UMT+.

 

First to get the best from the UMT+ one needs an MSB DAC with a ProI2S module which is a nonstarter for many who already have other DACs.

 

My MSB DAC has a USB and ProI2s input. Until the UMT+ I was using a Zuma "server" via a Light Harmonics USB cable that sounded great.

 

The UMT+ does USB data, data disc, cd or streams. There is no difference between the quality of data disc/cd vs streaming both sounding better than the USB Input and my Zuma.

 

The limitations of the UMT+ at this point lies with the OPPO chipset but once the data gets to the ProI2s card in the UMT+ it sounds fantastic. The best I have heard my MSB sound.

 

As I said a nice thing is given the methodology of the PROI2s card buffering the data and acting as a "memory player" directly synced to the MSB DAC's clock makes the computer irrelevant other than getting the data to the OPPO chipset which still needs some work before I can decide to buy it and sell my Zuma

[barrows]

Joelha:

 

This is the statement I was referring to:

 

"The PPA card is hands down the better card."

 

The above statement leaves no room for interpretation, perhaps it is not really what you meant though? The only way to support such a statement would be to provide objective data.

I have no argument with you if you feel the PP USB sounds better IN YOUR SYSTEM, I only disagree with the above statement.

 

Noise is all there is which is affecting things here, this could be noise on the USB cable, or broadcast RF noise from the card, or the computer/server itself, or even AC line noise produced by the computer/server and contaminating other components. Subjective analysis is seriously lacking when it comes to determining which card is "better", as subjective analysis can only determine which card sounds better in a given system context, and as I explained previously, a "worse" performing card may make some systems sound better subjectively.

[Nicholas_S]

Have both the SOtM and Pang cards...

 

Each is extremely good and a bit difficult to distinguish between IF the rest of your system is appropriately optimized... Phil's script and JPlay set up correctly and, of far more significance to sonic excellence, powering the SSD card independently from the motherboard.

 

With an appropriately optimized system even the motherboard USB outputs sound very good.

[dminches]

 

With an appropriately optimized system even the motherboard USB outputs sound very good.

 

One would think that is the case. I am not sure what the advantages are of the USB board being a PCI slot as opposed to being part of the motherboard.

[Inbest]

As stated, I don't have the two to compare. To me with the PPA, the clarity translates to the bass equally. I would not describe the bass as shallow, superficial or inflated. In contrast, my bass is very realistic. I would use the words detailed, extended, and articulate. People say it sounds like the upright bass is in the room when they hear the system, for example. It is easy to tell the bass drum hit from the bass electric guitar or acoustic bass. It all sounds unique and articulate, not blurred, bloated, or weak.

 

Again, I have not compared and, even so, as stated it might be system dependent.

 

Best,

John

 

John:

 

If you don't have SOTM card, I suggest you try it. Maybe you will find the difference I noticed.

 

My system was very well balanced with SOTM card. When I first tried the PPA card in my rig, the sound was collapsed. I did try to work it out with my space and my system and see if I can still find the well balanced sound I had with SOTM card. Unfortunately, I just can't find the analog like and the deep bass sound I had with SOTM card.

 

If you do have good sound with PPA card, I would say you have found a very good balanced sound of you system with your space. Maybe SOTM card can improve your already well balanced sound further. Who knows?

 

But please do try the SOTM card before any judgement made between them. Usually one has to be compared to know the improvement needed.

[Nicholas_S]

One would think that is the case. I am not sure what the advantages are of the USB board being a PCI slot as opposed to being part of the motherboard.

 

The major advantage for the PCIe cards is likely their ability to be powered independently of the motherboard.

 

IMHO, were one to power either PCIe card from the motherboard without software optimizations, the improvement would be so small that their additional cost and effort with driver management would not be justified.

[TJHUB]

 

My system was very well balanced with SOTM card. When I first tried the PPA card in my rig, the sound was collapsed. I did try to work it out with my space and my system and see if I can still find the well balanced sound I had with SOTM card. Unfortunately, I just can't find the analog like and the deep bass sound I had with SOTM card.

 

Again, the PPA card has a recommended 200 hour break in. You clearly have not done this. This might explain the collapsed sound stage, but the bass thing still makes no sense to me.

[InfernoSTi]

John:

 

If you don't have SOTM card, I suggest you try it. Maybe you will find the difference I noticed.

 

My system was very well balanced with SOTM card. When I first tried the PPA card in my rig, the sound was collapsed. I did try to work it out with my space and my system and see if I can still find the well balanced sound I had with SOTM card. Unfortunately, I just can't find the analog like and the deep bass sound I had with SOTM card.

 

If you do have good sound with PPA card, I would say you have found a very good balanced sound of you system with your space. Maybe SOTM card can improve your already well balanced sound further. Who knows?

 

But please do try the SOTM card before any judgement made between them. Usually one has to be compared to know the improvement needed.

 

Thanks for the reply. Yes, I do really like my PPA but I am in no way criticizing the SoTM card…in fact I have the SOtM (expensive) three rail linear power supply and also an original Sonore DSD DAC. I really like their products and I love Jesus's customer service. That is one great audio guy!

 

So if I had a chance to pick up a used SoTM USB card, I would. I just can't spend full retail on something to compare.

 

I also have a highly treated listening room and a bi-amped system so I can match bass (via four 15" open baffle woofers, not a sub) levels separate from mids and highs. This allows much much flexibility (I don't think it masks problems as much as allows me to make slight corrections via volume, crossover point, and crossover slope).

 

So I am open to trying the SoTM USB…

 

Best,

John