Powerline noise affecting computer audio, seeking solution.

[ironsheik]

Since installing powerline networking I am experiencing significant interference and ticking when listening to my Laptop Audio. The same noise occurs through both the analog headphone port (which is amplified) and through my usb soundcard (which has amplified headphone port).

 

The same noise occurs when the laptop is plugged into every outlet in my house, and disappers when the powerline network is unplugged. Unfortunatley I really need the powerline networking.

 

Wondering if anyone has experience trying to filter unwanted electrical noise from their audio system. I don't know much about this topic, but I'm aware that some people purchase "power conditioners" or filters for their home audio equipment.

 

From what I understand these types of devices may be able to filter noise. My surge protector and laptop power supply seem to have no ability to filter out the unwanted noise.

 

I was looking at this product and wondering if it might help.

Amazon.com: Apc Av C Type 2 Outlet Wall Mount Power Filter, 120V: Electronics

 

Thanks to anyone who has experience with this!

[wgscott]

I use this:

 

Eight-Outlet Audio Surge Protector | Brick Wall

[jtwrace]

I use this:

 

Eight-Outlet Audio Surge Protector | Brick Wall

 

I use the original. :-) 8 Outlet Models | Zero Surge

 

Zero Surge actually sells the technology to them.

[wgscott]

That's good to know. Less expensive too.

[jtwrace]

That's good to know. Less expensive too.

 

SurgeX IIRC uses their technology.

[elcorso]

It looks to me like a "common mode" noise (from ground plug).

 

Zero Surge is an excellent product that I use to protect all the audio gear (including computers) from external spikes, since I live in the Rainforest where thunderstorms are very common. I don't think it would protect from internal noise.

 

For this kind of noise you need something like BPT Balanced Power Technologies - Home Since they are very expensive there should be less expensive units. Or, float the ground in some of your gear.

 

Roch

[jtwrace]

I don't think it would protect from internal noise.

Roch

The basic models will not but if the higher end models do. How much? I have no idea as I use other items for that. I use the Zero Surge on my server, router, printer though. Heck, I even have one on my treadmill and bed.

[Speedskater]

While the 'SurgeX', 'Brick Wall' and 'ZeroSurge" all use the same 'Series Mode Surge Protector' technology, does that have anything to do with noise filtering?

[wgscott]

While the 'SurgeX', 'Brick Wall' and 'ZeroSurge" all use the same 'Series Mode Surge Protector' technology, does that have anything to do with noise filtering?

 

Not directly, but cf: Line Conditioners | Brick Wall

[ironsheik]

Thank you! I really appreciate this discussion. I'm looking into the Brick Wall product information now.

 

I may try to diagnose internal vs ground plug noise first by using a cheater plug which I see on sale for $0.79. That may help me decide which of these products to purchase next.

[wgscott]

The "cheater plug" is the same as getting rid of the ground. This won't do anything to filter out the RF data (noise) on your line. An inexpensive MOV surge protector with an RF filter (Belkin, for example) may be all you need.

[MJM]

I had a CRT that I had been using as a computer monitor that put a rumble sound into my computer stereo system. The monitor was a very powerful Sony Trinitron monitor. When I unplugged the monitor, the rumble disappeared. It was not a "ticking" sound, but a low frequency around 600 Hz., if my memory serves me well. It polluted the whole house power system.

[elcorso]

Unfortunately MOVs (Metal Oxide Varistors) are a joke, they are not faster enough to act on a surge. ZeroSurge uses a different much faster technology.

 

The BrickWall® filter is good but to isolate one device from the other, but not to connect 8 devices to his 8 outlets. It works at the same principle of an ISO transformer.

 

RF filters some times are good, but if not, you finish without low bass, since some of them filters 60hZ and bellow.

 

Please begin to try with a cheater plug, and/or, inverting the polarity of some of your gear, beginning with the powerline network. Powerline networks works riding over your home AC circuits, under RF!

 

It's an interesting a hard to solve problem... but please read this:

 

Smarthome 1626-10 FilterLinc 10-Amp Plug-In Noise Filter - Amazon.com

 

Roch

[wgscott]

Unfortunately MOVs (Metal Oxide Varistors) are a joke, they are not faster enough to act on a surge. ZeroSurge uses a different much faster technology.

 

As do those others we first posted.

 

The BrickWall® filter is good but to isolate one device from the other, but not to connect 8 devices to his 8 outlets. It works at the same principle of an ISO transformer.

 

RF filters some times are good, but if not, you finish without low bass, since some of them filters 60hZ and bellow.

 

Well, I prefer to listen to the bass in my recordings, rather than those who inhabit the wall sockets.

 

Please begin to try with a cheater plug, and/or, inverting the polarity of some of your gear, beginning with the powerline network. Powerline networks works riding over your home AC circuits, under RF!

 

It's an interesting a hard to solve problem... but please read this:

 

Smarthome 1626-10 FilterLinc 10-Amp Plug-In Noise Filter - Amazon.com

 

Roch

 

My solar panels inject data into the mains in the same way as EoP (and you can use the same technology as an extender). I have a device that reads the data and posts it to a web server. It works if I have it plugged into the mains. It does not detect the RF data (noise) if I plug it into my Brickwall with the RF filter and the surge protector you like.

[junker]

Maybe an isolation trannie? Not sure how many watts you would need for your system, but with an amp go big so you don't limit bass & dynamics... Amazon has a pretty good return policy if it doesn't work for you..

 

Amazon.com: Tripp Lite IS250HG Isolation Transformer 250W Medical Surge 120V 2 Outlet TAA GSA: Electronics

 

Amazon.com: Tripp Lite IS500HG Isolation Transformer 500W Medical Surge 120V 4 Outlet TAA GSA: Electronics

 

Amazon.com: Tripp Lite IS1000HG Isolation Transformer 1000W Medical Surge 120V 4 Outlet TAA GSA: Electronics

 

Amazon.com: Tripp Lite IS1800HG Isolation Transformer 1800W Medical Surge 120V 6 Outlet TAA GSA: Electronics

 

[elcorso]

As do those others we first posted.

 

 

 

Well, I prefer to listen to the bass in my recordings, rather than those who inhabit the wall sockets.

 

 

 

My solar panels inject data into the mains in the same way as EoP (and you can use the same technology as an extender). I have a device that reads the data and posts it to a web server. It works if I have it plugged into the mains. It does not detect the RF data (noise) if I plug it into my Brickwall with the RF filter and the surge protector you like.

 

There is not such a thing like "bass from your wall sockets". My point was about that some RF filters cause more harm than improvements, but forget about it.

 

BTW, solar panels are cost effective and from what cost per Kw / hour? I'm sorry for the OP for the out of thread.

 

Roch

[coxhaus]

Maybe an isolation trannie? Not sure how many watts you would need for your system, but with an amp go big so you don't limit bass & dynamics... Amazon has a pretty good return policy if it doesn't work for you..

 

Amazon.com: Tripp Lite IS250HG Isolation Transformer 250W Medical Surge 120V 2 Outlet TAA GSA: Electronics

 

Amazon.com: Tripp Lite IS500HG Isolation Transformer 500W Medical Surge 120V 4 Outlet TAA GSA: Electronics

 

Amazon.com: Tripp Lite IS1000HG Isolation Transformer 1000W Medical Surge 120V 4 Outlet TAA GSA: Electronics

 

Amazon.com: Tripp Lite IS1800HG Isolation Transformer 1800W Medical Surge 120V 6 Outlet TAA GSA: Electronics

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]10642[/ATTACH]

 

 

I have an older Tripp Lite 1200 watt transformer model which I tried with just my computer. The sound lacked bass and was thin. So go big if you use one of these.

[westom]

From what I understand these types of devices may be able to filter noise. My surge protector and laptop power supply seem to have no ability to filter out the unwanted noise.

Superior filters would already be inside a laptop supply. Surge protectors ignore any voltage typically less than 330 volts (see its box for your number). Noise would be tens of volts or less. Clearly a surge protector would ignore (do nothing for) this anomaly.

 

So why is noise getting through best filters already inside a laptop supply? What other wires are incoming to that laptop? Are USB devices power externally? Does the laptop have a network cable? Start by listing all possible noise paths.

 

Obtain a cheater adaptor. It permits three prong appliances to connect to two prong receptacles. Use this to temporarily disconnect the safety ground wire. To learn if noise changes or is eliminated. This is not a solution. This is only step one: identify the problem. Solutions come later.

 

Safety ground wire completely bypassess filters in the laptop supply, filters in that Amazon.com solution, and filters in the Surgex, Brickwall, and Zerosurge products. Before spending money on a solution, first determine the incoming and the outgoing path of that noise current. A temporary disconnect of that safety ground might identify one of those two paths. Solution occurs after identifying the incoming and outgoing noise paths. Therefore even incoming wire to the audio system must be listed. Example, AC has a black wire, a white wire, and a green wire. Every wire must be defined to identify potential reasons for that noise.

[DavidL]

I do sympathise with your situation but I can't help but notice the irony of this. From what I've read on the subject most users of power line networking have few if any problems, however little attention seems focussed on the anti-social aspect of this approach to networking: one user's reliable network can make the local environment much noisier for everyone else.

 

You say "Unfortunately I really need the power line networking" but don't say why. The ethernet alternative does not have to be completely wired to ensure a rock-solid network. If none of the suggestions given here for a cure to your problem work it might be worth considering a wired ethernet network with a wireless bridge to solve any physical location problems. I've found that a pair of airport extremes work very well as a bridge - I've been streaming hi-res audio (24/192) between 2 floors with no dropouts or other problems.

[wgscott]

There is a very simple way to test this:

 

(1) Unplug the PoE and see if the noise goes away. (If I read correctly, you did this and it did).

 

(2) Plug the receiver into the RF filter / surge protector of choice. If it no longer carries the IP signal, the RF filter is working.

 

Two observations:

 

a. I did not have any obviously audible interference from the PoE from my solar panels even before using the Brickwall filter and surge protector.

 

b. The wall-wart that came with my first OWC external hard drive polluted the mains to the point where it corrupted the solar panel data -- in other words, the hard drive's wall wart was far more "anti-social" than PoE. I still heard no audio degradation, but I got rid of it.

[wgscott]

 

BTW, solar panels are cost effective and from what cost per Kw / hour? I'm sorry for the OP for the out of thread.

 

Roch

 

Our summer peak time rate it $0.30 per kw x hour. Our projected break-even point is 7 years; we will have had them for 4 years in April.

 

http://tinyurl.com/wgsolar

[elcorso]

Our summer peak time rate it $0.30 per kw x hour. Our projected break-even point is 7 years; we will have had them for 4 years in April.

 

http://tinyurl.com/wgsolar

 

Thanks Bill,

 

I pay here about $0.23 per Kw / hour now, but this dry season will increase to $0.30

 

Let me see if the condominium allows the roofs panels...

 

Roch

[Danold]

I do sympathise with your situation but I can't help but notice the irony of this. From what I've read on the subject most users of power line networking have few if any problems, however little attention seems focussed on the anti-social aspect of this approach to networking: one user's reliable network can make the local environment much noisier for everyone else.

 

You say "Unfortunately I really need the power line networking" but don't say why. The ethernet alternative does not have to be completely wired to ensure a rock-solid network. If none of the suggestions given here for a cure to your problem work it might be worth considering a wired ethernet network with a wireless bridge to solve any physical location problems. I've found that a pair of airport extremes work very well as a bridge - I've been streaming hi-res audio (24/192) between 2 floors with no dropouts or other problems.

 

I second this; from the beginning I considered this power line networking technology anti-social as the RF noise spreads across the whole network. It's also paradoxical first to inject all kinds of RF and other noise into the power grid and then searching for solutions to filter this dirt out again. Sorry.