Vocals sound harsh

[freesteve]

Playing jazz and classic rock is great on JRiver, however, most of the vocals sound "quite harsh or thin," with the percussion, etc. sounding wonderful. Changing sampling rate, etc..., and changing ASIO, WASAPI has not resolved the issue. Have even switched usb cables and DAC's. Suggestions are appreciated. My system is Win 7 PRO 64 bit. Thank you, enjoy.

[christopher3393]

For me, sometimes the devil is in the details. I'm an amateur here, but since this same phenomenon happens to me, it would be worth checking how far you have moved in the direction of a dedicated music server, and if not, how recently you've done a clean installation of the OS. I've found that all sorts of audible things can happen with the software and hardware of the pc.

[Axiom05]

The problem may have nothing to do with the equipment but instead may be related to room acoustics. Strong early reflections off of untreated surfaces will produce sonic aberrations similar to what you describe.

[Snowmonkey]

Have you tried using different music server software, to see if JRiver is really the problem?

[sbgk]

Playing jazz and classic rock is great on JRiver, however, most of the vocals sound "quite harsh or thin," with the percussion, etc. sounding wonderful. Changing sampling rate, etc..., and changing ASIO, WASAPI has not resolved the issue. Have even switched usb cables and DAC's. Suggestions are appreciated. My system is Win 7 PRO 64 bit. Thank you, enjoy.

 

windows 8.1 sounds better, wasapi engine was rewritten. Try wdm-ks. The optimised wdm-ks squeezelite/portaudio JLP player I'm developing here http://mqnplayer.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/mqn-just-good-music.html sounds superb, with no harshness, but maybe a bit tricky to set up.

[sandyk]

Have you tried the cPlay freeware ?

[mayhem13]

Simple. You don't like beryllium tweeters. It's a well known issue of the focal Be line to be fatiguing or too forward in the upper midrange. This can be said for quite a few two ways with metal dome tweeters that are crossed over low to match the narrowing directivity of a 6.5" woofer. What's become a trend in speakers these days is the "compact" but "Fullrange" monitor where the tradeoff for "compact" typically results in a deficiency elsewhere. This isn't to say that compact 2 ways are a 'bad' design........it's not. They will simply never be as clean and balanced as a true three way speaker where the midrange driver can cover the critical audio range and allow for a tweeter crossover above 3khz where it should be. What you are hearing could have been reduced with the use of a silk dome tweeter instead, but again, for many, the presentation of silk tweeters is too 'laid back' for critical monitoring or 'unrevealing'.

 

My suggestion would be to listen to some three way monitors or two ways with either small format midwoofers crossed high to metal type domes( if you still enjoy metal dome sound) or standard 6.5" midwoofers with silk domes. I'd try and listen to some ATC monitors who's midrange dome is considered by many to be the finest midrange driver available.

[4est]

I tend to agree with mayhem, but you may not have to go as far as a 3 way. Of course a 3 way has benefits, but it also has a crossover amidst the midrange which some find bothersome. Before switching speakers, you might want to investigate your sources as they may be the cause, or at least aggravating things if you are only using digital. As vinyl has trouble with bass, digital does with treble. Most anything afoul with digital music wrecks the highs.

[Paul R]

Focals seem to have a very unforgiving sound to me. If for example, you have a bad recording, it will very much sound like a bad recording, with every wart and wrinkle presented for inspection. Doubly true with the Benchmark DAC2 which has similar properties.

 

Here is what I would do- I would be sure that the source material is full res- Alac, Flac, Aiff, etc. then I would set JRMC to playing it bit perfect. Listen to a small set of tracks and take notes. Then change one small thing at a time.

 

For example- start by having JRMC transcode everything to DSD and listen to your test tracks again- being sure to compare against your notes and making new notes.

 

Try as many different things as you can think of, including different interfaces to the Benchmark. Try optical, USB, Coax, etc.

 

Chances are something simple will make a significant change, and that will allow you to focus your efforts on the real problem, whatever it may be. If you can, also try listening to your system using a Mac and/or Linux as a source.

[mayhem13]

Focals seem to have a very unforgiving sound to me. If for example, you have a bad recording, it will very much sound like a bad recording, with every wart and wrinkle presented for inspection. Doubly true with the Benchmark DAC2 which has similar properties.

 

Here is what I would do- I would be sure that the source material is full res- Alac, Flac, Aiff, etc. then I would set JRMC to playing it bit perfect. Listen to a small set of tracks and take notes. Then change one small thing at a time.

 

For example- start by having JRMC transcode everything to DSD and listen to your test tracks again- being sure to compare against your notes and making new notes.

 

Try as many different things as you can think of, including different interfaces to the Benchmark. Try optical, USB, Coax, etc.

 

Chances are something simple will make a significant change, and that will allow you to focus your efforts on the real problem, whatever it may be. If you can, also try listening to your system using a Mac and/or Linux as a source.

 

Better yet, if you think the issue is source related, have someone BLINDLY switch the DAC interfaces and settings within the PC. That will take the possibility of bias out of the realm of possibilities.

 

I do have to agree with Paul here that those things he mentions may be the cause.....although keeping in agreement with Paul's method and rationale, if find it not very 'likely'! Lol

[4est]

Do we really need to spin this into DBT/ABX? Surely, if one has made it as far as CA, they are aware of the view points.

Better yet, if you think the issue is source related, have someone BLINDLY switch the DAC interfaces and settings within the PC. That will take the possibility of bias out of the realm of possibilities.

 

I do have to agree with Paul here that those things he mentions may be the cause.....although keeping in agreement with Paul's method and rationale, if find it not very 'likely'! Lol

[freesteve]

Thanks for the input. FYI, at times some playback using Winamp w/ Izotope sounds much better than JRiver. Audio great playback really is a great adventure... on this everyone must agree... enjoy.

[Paul R]

(Grin)

Blind testing would not have much point here would it? One has to know what one is comparing in the first place...

 

Besides, I do not think he is trying to prove anythng, just find the best sound as per his own enjoyment.

 

Were I a betting man, I might be moved to lay some money on the DSD transcoding or the interface changes solving the problem. Fortunately for one of us, I am far too cheap to risk money that way!

 

Paul

 

Better yet, if you think the issue is source related, have someone BLINDLY switch the DAC interfaces and settings within the PC. That will take the possibility of bias out of the realm of possibilities.

 

I do have to agree with Paul here that those things he mentions may be the cause.....although keeping in agreement with Paul's method and rationale, if find it not very 'likely'! Lol

[freesteve]

W O W ! set buffering to 250 milliseconds and now, "sweet as good chocolate."

[esldude]

Copy some offending files. Put them in a sound editor and drop the level with EQ by 3 db from 2 khz to 10 khz. Your speakers have a bulge in response there.

 

Alternatively try thin cotton cloth like from a t-shirt in front of the tweeters.

[bluesman]

W O W ! set buffering to 250 milliseconds and now, "sweet as good chocolate."

That's great to hear! What was the prior buffer setting?

[Paul R]

Great news! I have to try that at home and see if it makes a difference to me too. I had not even thought of varying the buffering...

 

Do you use memory play in JRMC? That makes a significant difference to me.

 

-Paul

[freesteve]

Prior buffer was 50

[mayhem13]

Hmmmmm.....interesting.

 

Since you have some range of adjustment, it would be interesting to know at what setting the sound again became harsh as you decrease the time......?

[christopher3393]

Looks like buffers in both JPlay and Jriver are in play here: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-general-forum/jplay-and-jriver-19119/