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Sony HAP-Z1ES has arrived


Merko

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For those fed up with the slow transfer of music files to the Sony, or for those considering buying one, here is what I do to speed things up dramatically.

 

Get yourself a large external USB drive, connect it to the Sony and format it using the Sony. Then disconnect it, and connect the drive to either your Mac or PC, BUT BEFORE YO DO, get the PARAGON driver for mounting Linux drives. (ExtFS mounter)

 

With this software loaded, you can mount the USB drive formatted by the Sony, and copy your content over to it at normal USB disc transfer speeds.

 

Once all your files are copied over, re-connect it to the Sony and then let it go about doing what it does in terms of cataloging the contents and adding it to the database. Yes this will still take a fair amount of time, but nothing like the time it takes to transfer all yoru files via ethernet or worse, wifi!

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There's no need to go through that process to copy files directly to (or from) the Sony's internal or external drives. Just open File Explorer (in Windows) and the Sony along with any connected drives will show up in your network connected devices. From there you can copy or transfer any files you wish without going through the Sony software. I've done this numerous times without any problems. Hope this helps!

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There's no need to go through that process to copy files directly to (or from) the Sony's internal or external drives. Just open File Explorer (in Windows) and the Sony along with any connected drives will show up in your network connected devices. From there you can copy or transfer any files you wish without going through the Sony software. I've done this numerous times without any problems. Hope this helps!

I agree about avoiding using the Sony software - but not really due to speed, just ease of use and reliability reasons.

 

Accessing via a regular share in File explorer is best... ie. \\hap-z1es\HAP_Internal.

 

I also find that assigning the HAP a static IP in my router instead of giving it a dynamic IP makes the HDD Audio Remote android app more reliable in finding the device. When it was assigned an IP instead, it wouldn't always find the HAP - it was very annoying.

Also, for some reason wireless speeds are absolutely brutal with this device. I can copy to/from other devices wirelessly at much faster speeds than what I get with the HAP. It copies at speeds between 1MB and 2MB per second - which is absurd. I get around 25MB per second when using a wired connection - not great, but so much better and more reliable than wireless.

For the first initial large batch of copying, I used wired and it took me about 8 hours to copy. I now just use wireless to add any albums as I get them - which is between 1-3 albums at a time. Still takes longer than it should, but I'm usually watching TV or something when I'm copying anyway.

Sony should've allowed the internal HDD to be access via USB so you can just hook a computer directly to the HAP and access it like it were an external USB HDD.

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There's no need to go through that process to copy files directly to (or from) the Sony's internal or external drives. Just open File Explorer (in Windows) and the Sony along with any connected drives will show up in your network connected devices. From there you can copy or transfer any files you wish without going through the Sony software. I've done this numerous times without any problems. Hope this helps!

 

Yes you can, but it is still slow as a wet week.

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I agree about avoiding using the Sony software - but not really due to speed, just ease of use and reliability reasons.

 

Accessing via a regular share in File explorer is best... ie. \\hap-z1es\HAP_Internal.

 

I also find that assigning the HAP a static IP in my router instead of giving it a dynamic IP makes the HDD Audio Remote android app more reliable in finding the device. When it was assigned an IP instead, it wouldn't always find the HAP - it was very annoying.

Also, for some reason wireless speeds are absolutely brutal with this device. I can copy to/from other devices wirelessly at much faster speeds than what I get with the HAP. It copies at speeds between 1MB and 2MB per second - which is absurd. I get around 25MB per second when using a wired connection - not great, but so much better and more reliable than wireless.

For the first initial large batch of copying, I used wired and it took me about 8 hours to copy. I now just use wireless to add any albums as I get them - which is between 1-3 albums at a time. Still takes longer than it should, but I'm usually watching TV or something when I'm copying anyway.

Sony should've allowed the internal HDD to be access via USB so you can just hook a computer directly to the HAP and access it like it were an external USB HDD.

 

After the initial setup and download. It's not bad doing the 2 or 3 albums I'll do from time to time. I've done it all ways but now just let it auto sync whenever I drop a new folder or 2 on my nas. Fortunately I had read about the issues so planned it out when I got my unit. I loaded my files in batches over a few days. Admittedly I only have about 1600 songs right now but so far so good for me.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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audio.bill,

 

I am very interested in this method of file transfer onto a Sony formatted HD using Windows 10 File Explorer.

 

1) What is the step-by-step process?

2) It was my understanding that upon plugging a Sony formatted HD into the PC that it would be rejected with some form a error message. How do you work around that?

3) Assuming that I can get File Explorer method to work, what can I expect as to speed/time?

 

Thank you for your post. Fingers crossed that the File Explorer method solves the Achilles Heel of the Sony HAP-Z1es - i.e. time for file transfer.

 

Again, thank you

Beach Life

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If you are talking about transfer directly to the Sony drives over Ethernet, forget it, it is not a lot quicker than using the Sony app.

 

If you are using an external drive do this:

 

1. Format the drive on the Sony first, then disconnect it and get ready to attach it to your PC.

2. Get hold of the Paragon ExtFS mount for PC (https://www.paragon-software.com/home/extfs-windows/).

3. After installing the Paragon software, attach the drive you just formatted on the Sony. It will then mount like any other USB drive.

4. Copy your files across to the USB, then disconnect it.

5. Attach the USB drive to the Sony, sit back and let it do its cataloging thing, and you are good to go.

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Birddogthecat - All I was doing was leaving the external HD connected to the Sony and accessing it on a networked PC using File Explorer. I am able to copy and paste any desired music folders and/or files between the Sony and the PC's hard drives without encountering any format issues or conflicts. I understand that connecting a Sony formatted drive directly to a PC will not work, but when accessing it over the network when it's connected to the Sony works fine. I don't have any speed measurements but found it to be faster than using the Sony file transfer app, but apparently nevetsseel claims that the speed gain is negligible. I suggest you try it for yourself since it's so easy to do, not requiring any changes to your PC or standard network connections. Of course it will still be very slow if the Sony is wirelessly connected to your network, a hardwired ethernet connection is much better. Alternatively the process that nevetsseel detailed above is reportedly much quicker. Hope this helped, good luck and please let us know your findings.

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There's no need to go through that process to copy files directly to (or from) the Sony's internal or external drives. Just open File Explorer (in Windows) and the Sony along with any connected drives will show up in your network connected devices. From there you can copy or transfer any files you wish without going through the Sony software. I've done this numerous times without any problems. Hope this helps!

That's how I transfer the files to the HAP Z1. File Explorer in Windows.

Works fine.

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That's how I transfer the files to the HAP Z1. File Explorer in Windows.

Works fine.

One advantage of accessing the share via Windows is that you can use 3rd party file management applications.

I always use Teracopy to major file copies, so it's great to be able to use it in this case as well.

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but nothing like the time it takes to transfer all yoru files via ethernet or worse, wifi!

disagree here

 

the speed gain is almost nil when using this method with a large amount of files, yes copying them on the PC side is pretty quick (but still the use of ext4 severely limits speed)

 

however, after reconnecting drive, and choosing to rebuild the database, you are right back to the bottleneck and it can take many many hours depending on the size of the files copied

 

in the end, it's NO faster

 

the fastest method is to drag and drop (or use a FM) over a gigabit connection, the catalog is built as the files are copied

 

if you want to prevent the unit from shutting down every few hours (when doing those big dumps), turn it to a radio station before you begin

 

i know as i am at 70K+ and have tried every method

 

small transfers are quick with this device and must be what the engineers were used to doing and felt it was acceptable

 

i am used to gathering the files and waiting for downtime and send them all at once, 20/30gb at a time

 

it's brutal if you are impatient

 

also, be sure to properly tag everything ahead of time, gracenotes is great when ripping a commercial cd or known artists releases, but tagging after the fact, on the device is BRUTAL

 

another tip is to figure how how you'll be organizing your files BEFORE you begin, moving files from one drive to the other is even slower!!!

 

I decided after filling my 2TB primary drive to move all .dsf to an external (was around 400GB) and it took a WEEK to move!!

 

Cannot imagine how long it would take to pull a backup off this

 

Some are using SSDs to speed things up a bit, but not sure if TRIM is supported, if it isn't, over time the SSD will become slower than a regular drive...

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disagree here, the speed gain is almost nil when using this method with a large amount of files, yes copying them on the PC side is pretty quick (but still the use of ext4 severely limits speed) however, after reconnecting drive, and choosing to rebuild the database, you are right back to the bottleneck and it can take many many hours depending on the size of the files copied in the end, it's NO faster...

 

Firstly, yes it is faster, FILES TO DRIVE is massively quicker, and yes as stated previously the Sony will then start the catalogueing process, BUT, and here is the point you are missing, the amount of time your computer is involved in this process is SIGNIFICANTLY lower, and for those on laptops, this is a BIG DEAL.

 

If the laptop used in the process is the same laptop you take to work each day, then how do you allow it the week to transfer all the music? It is simply not practical to wait a week for the files to transfer with your laptop (or even a desktop as far as I am concerned) locked in on this task for this amount of time. Crazy!

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here is the point you are missing, the amount of time your computer is involved in this process is SIGNIFICANTLY lower, and for those on laptops, this is a BIG DEAL. !

 

AHHHH, yes! I agree here TOTALLY

 

I have 10 or so pc to play with so I don't care about tying one up

 

if the idea is to put the load back on the HAP, then yes, this is the only way to fly

 

for those that have trouble with the "free" paragon driver, I have been using the driver from Ext2Fsd Project with great success

 

this also works great with those large SD cards and android phones

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Hello,

I recently got the HAP-Z1ES, some solutions for the file transfers :

 

file system used is ext4.

 

**if you have a linux system : (performance would be the one of the raw disk approx. 50mo/s with usb3.0 or 25mo/s with usb2.0)

*mount your external USB HDD, and copy your files from linux to the external HDD. ext4 is supported natively on linux.

*if you have a NAS running linux (for example synology) try to plug the external HDD to the NAS, and do the copy from the file manager of your NAS.

 

**on windows system : (max. 12mo/s for the network drive share mapping with wired connection)

*I do not encourage to use third party ext drivers (even paragon) for writing to ext4 partitions from windows systems as it could lead to corrupt silently files, even folder or even the whole disk.

*you can bypass the use of HDD Audio software with the following solution :

*prefered way is to create a network drive share mapped to \\ip.of.your.HAP\HAP_Internal or \\HAP.ip.of.your.HAP\HAP_external in Windows file explorer. You can then drag and drop your files from windows file explorer.

*my preferred solution is to have my files on a NAS a sync them on the HAP-Z1ES with the software SyncBack SE. Easy to set up, albeit shareware. As stated before make sure you uncheck "safe copy" in the profile advanced options which basically do nothing more than transfer the file with a temporary name, then rename it after the transfer completes, which screw up (by more than half) the transfer rate. HAP-Z1ES does not like the renaming process. Your transfer will be safe, do not worry.

 

*Sadly HAP-Z1ES do not support rsync, otherwise it could have been possible to do a direct NAS <-> HAP-Z1ES automatic sync of music folders night and day ...

 

above solutions could be applicable with the internal hdd, but would require to open the player, dismount and remount.

I had not tried myself but will have a look some day. Possible issues would be multiple partitions and/or database related files.

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above solutions could be applicable with the internal hdd, but would require to open the player, dismount and remount.

I had not tried myself but will have a look some day. Possible issues would be multiple partitions and/or database related files.

 

it's quite easy, but one needs to be careful when disconnecting the sata wires...this would be worth doing to make a full backup

 

in fact, it's worth setting up a linux boot on a laptop just for these types of file transfers

 

i see there's a 2.5" 2TB SSD/HDD option now, would be curious to see if there's any kind of speedup

 

you wouldn't happen to know if TRIM is supported?

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performance during transfer of files seems to be limited by the CPU of HAP-Z1ES.

 

*do not forget to stop any playback, as it slows the transfers. As alwways in computing, before transfering large chunk of music, make sure it does not play nor spotify nor TuneIn and reboot the player. This free the memory, and all the performance is allocated to the file transfer.

 

 

I wonder if anyone tried to consider the opportunity to mod the software part :

*if someone has a hint on what CPU is used, I'm interested. Heard it could be an i.Mx6.

See the Qobuz review, the CPU is under a metal sheet, dissipating heat, and apparently could not be removed.

http://www.qobuz.com/ie-en/info/hi-fi-guide/sony-hap-zies-qobuzism-for-this176298

*Heard the OS could be an OpenWRT, which is commonly used in routers. Confirmed by the open sources :

http://oss.sony.net/Products/Linux/Audio/HAP-S1.html

*would be interesting to add an http server mimicking the android application.

*is there a way to ssh into the system, this would permit to add a rsync server for example ?

*are there any open ports ?

 

*on the hardware part of the embedded PC :

*apparently the Altera Cyclon IV EPG4CGX30 FPGA is used to decode the DSD when playing DSD. Remember FPGA are programmable gates and you can reprogram it on the fly, to change its functions.

*in the SHARC DSP ADSP21488, you have IIR and FIR filters.

*apparently the SK Hynix H5TO1G63EFR points to a 1GB RAM module, but I did not find the precise model. The E seems also to indicate that Qobuz reviewed a Engineer sample.

*I wonder where are the clocks nowadays ? Is it provided by the Altera ?

 

 

btw, I upgraded the internal HDD to 2TB with no issues. It is a Firecuda ST2000LX001 hybrid SSHD, which includes a small 8GB SSD. Idle noise is only slightly more noticeable than the shipped HGST 1TB C5K1000-1000. No impact on the max transfer speed (top at 12mo/s, network wired) ; but file discovery, and scanning seems easier, so that mean transfer speed is improved.

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I got aroung 900GB of music now with 60000 files (many duplicates of various encoding formats though).

Performance was slow with the original 1TB HDD as the disk was almost full filled.

The 2TB should give me some relief for some time.

 

I tried the external HDD solution, but was annoyed by the system message(s) at boot. Don't know if there is a mean to deactivate these.

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it's quite easy, but one needs to be careful when disconnecting the sata wires...this would be worth doing to make a full backup

 

in fact, it's worth setting up a linux boot on a laptop just for these types of file transfers

 

i see there's a 2.5" 2TB SSD/HDD option now, would be curious to see if there's any kind of speedup

 

you wouldn't happen to know if TRIM is supported?

 

TRIMis unlikely, but who cares ?

*SSD use case in HAP-Z1ES would be for ultimate silence.

*SSD performance slowly degrades over time with multiple recurrent read/writes, which is unlikely given the slow transfer times. This can have an impact for frequent read/writes, such as /tmp for linux or pagefile for windows, but not so important for music files. Maybe could impact the database performance though, which should be the most modified file on this player.

*bad luck case is unlickely : you degrade permanently the SSD performance

*most probable case : if you want to reuse the SSD for other purposes you can always perform a secure erase" of the SSD with an utility, and the SSD will likely recover its initial performance.

 

*openWRT is known to be working in RAM, and flash, so unlikely suppports the TRIM SSD related future.

*kernel used is 3.0.5 which seems too young for integratnig by default TRIM.

 

 

A linux boot could be just booting from a liveCD, it is easy and user friendly, and do not require to set-up the system permanently.

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TRIMis unlikely, but who cares ?

*SSD use case in HAP-Z1ES would be for ultimate silence.

*SSD performance slowly degrades over time with multiple recurrent read/writes, which is unlikely given the slow transfer times. This can have an impact for frequent read/writes, such as /tmp for linux or pagefile for windows, but not so important for music files. Maybe could impact the database performance though, which should be the most modified file on this player.

 

at 3X the cost of a mechanical HD, it seems not to be a cost effective solution, thanks, excellent information!

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performance during transfer of files seems to be limited by the CPU of HAP-Z1ES.

 

*do not forget to stop any playback, as it slows the transfers. As alwways in computing, before transfering large chunk of music, make sure it does not play nor spotify nor TuneIn and reboot the player. This free the memory, and all the performance is allocated

 

for me, whenever i use drag and drop or use the hap util and set it to the max shut off time, it still shuts down in the middle of large file transfers...the only way I could get it to not shut down was by tuning in a radio station

 

with or without it playing, the transfer seemed to be the same speed (slow...)

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A linux boot could be just booting from a liveCD, it is easy and user friendly, and do not require to set-up the system permanently.

say i were to purchase a firecuda and were to "clone" the internal (after removing it) to the new drive

i mount them both

what would the command be?

 

i guess one could just remove old drive, put new one in, reset, pull it out, drag and drop and then reinstall and rebuild

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