Sony HAP-Z1ES has arrived

[JMotzi]

....I will definitely looking for more help how best to setup dbpoweramp on ripping and organising all flac files and album of flacs with metadata and cover art. I just want to do it right first time....

 

Hi Jaydee,

 

A few suggestions.

 

 

1. There is nothing to fear. If you are ripping from CDs then no permanent mistake can be made as you will still have the CDs and can rip again.
   
2. I suggest that you consider the ripping & organizing independently of what you intend to do with the data afterwards. In your immediate case you want to transfer to the HAP-Z1ES but sooner or later you may want to access those files for another server or on a computer or make a mp3 version for portable use etc.
   
3. It doesn't really matter how you organize the files you rip since the HAP or any other library program will provide it's own sorting based on the metadata. So organizing audio files has the the same considerations as organizing photo files - find a structure that means something to you and stick with it. This allows you to find individual files if you ever have the need. Some people have a file structure by genre, others by artist, others have it by CD, etc.
   
4. I keep all my FLAC & DSD music in one place (a single drive) but I use it for many purposes. I also keep all of my mp3 copies in a separate place. This way I can point the HDD transfer function of the HAP or the library of JRiver to the place where the music is and facilitates auto transfer. Likewise, iTunes knows where the mp3s are. this way I never get mp3s on the HAP nor the FLACs in iTunes.
   
5. The most important rule - keep all the tracks from a single CD in a folder for that CD. You can also put PDF files of jacket contents or any other artwork or anything pertaining to that CD in that folder, but definitely keep it all together. The HAP doesn't need that, library programs don't need that, but someday you may need that in case of some data disaster. Anyway this is no big deal since any program you use to rip the CDs will do this automatically.
   
6. My personal practice is to rip a CD into a single directory in a temporary location. When I buy a new HiRes file, I do the same thing - put it in a temporary location. Then I use the tagging program of my choice (usually mp3tag) to check the metadata for each track. If there is any missing or inconsistent data then I correct it. This is an attempt to avoids the situation where the HAP thinks the tracks do not belong together because the album name or artist/conductor name is not consistent between tracks. This can be fixed later on the HAP but it's best to have it all tidy before transfer. Especially with downloaded files, some vendors seems to have everything perfect while others are not so good. Once I am happy with all the tracks the I drag the CD folder to the main library structure for auto recognition by JRiver or HAP transfer.
   
7. Unfortunately there is no standard for file naming. Especially with downloaded file it seems every label or vendor has there own format. Programs like mp3tag allow you to rename files into whatever standard you want. So you can either live with what comes with the file or you can be really anal and have every track with same name format (for example TrackNo -artist - cd - track name). I used to be anal like this but I gave up for the most part.
   
8. Since you have so many CDs, it is likely that some are quite old or form esoteric labels and metadata maybe difficult to find. The nice thing about most ripping programs is that will find all this stuff for you, but it's not always the case. This is here programs like Jaikoz or MusicBrainz Picard can help. Here are two threads where you can read about people needed to recover metadata on old collections:
    
   Sony HAP-S1 File Transfer Help
    
   Metadata Recovery for Complete Music Library
   
9. You have a large collection and this will take time. If you assume 10 CDs per evening and 1500 CDs... well you get the idea. The good news is it only needs to be done once and you will discover a bunch of CDs you forgot you had!
   
10. Bottom line - it's not difficult, just tedious. Have fun with it!
    

 

 

JM

[wormcycle]

"I replaced internal hard drive to 2TB slim Seagate, and added a 4TB external USD WB my book"

I am about to order HAP Z1ES bot one of the issues I have is that I read in Sony documentation that you cannot actually replace internal hard drive, or you need Sony to do that. And you actually did it.

Can Z1ES recognize the replaced HD without any problems? Are there any specific steps one need to follow?

[audio.bill]

I have read of several users that have replaced the internal drive. Doing so will technically invalidate your warranty though. Once you make the change, you go into the menu and select the option to format the drive and restore its original factory state. I'm told that it even installs the sample hi-res music files that came on the original drive.

[bmoura]

Red Wine Audio offers modifications to the HAP Z1ES server including replacing the hard drive with a 1TB SSD. So there are ways to replace the drive. That would void the warranty, but if the warranty isn't an issue, many possibilities!

[khollister]

I'm considering one of these as an upgrade to my current Mini/HiFace/Rega DAC headphone rig. I am trying to understand the capabilities of the HDD Audio Remote iOS app, specifically does it index by the Composer tag field? The screenshots on the App Store seem to indicate there is no Composer index (just genre, artist & album) but it is not at all obvious how the search feature works.

 

Can someone who uses the HAP-Z1ES primarily for classical music jump in and describe what the iOS app does and doesn't do?

 

For instance, if you search on a composer name, does it display albums or tracks? Does it actually search the composer tag, or does the composer have to be included in the album or track tag?

[legaltrouble]

I'm considering one of these as an upgrade to my current Mini/HiFace/Rega DAC headphone rig. I am trying to understand the capabilities of the HDD Audio Remote iOS app, specifically does it index by the Composer tag field? The screenshots on the App Store seem to indicate there is no Composer index (just genre, artist & album) but it is not at all obvious how the search feature works.

 

Can someone who uses the HAP-Z1ES primarily for classical music jump in and describe what the iOS app does and doesn't do?

 

For instance, if you search on a composer name, does it display albums or tracks? Does it actually search the composer tag, or does the composer have to be included in the album or track tag?

 

It doesn't appear to read the Composer tag, at all. Just Track, album, Artist and folder.

[khollister]

It doesn't appear to read the Composer tag, at all. Just Track, album, Artist and folder.

 

Yeah, it looks pretty basic. I installed the app and I'm playing with the demo database included. It seems you can only search by artist, track name, album name or folder name.

 

I'm in the process of re tagging my stuff in general to have the major composer name in the album title, and I suppose I could use folders to somewhat organize by composer, but this is really sub-optimal unless I'm missing something.

 

A shame since this seems to be an otherwise great fit at a reasonable price for my use. I need to think this through more before pulling the trigger.

[waltoly]

I'm in the process of re tagging my stuff in general to have the major composer name in the album title, and I suppose I could use folders to somewhat organize by composer, but this is really sub-optimal unless I'm missing something.

 

The app is actually pretty nice and very functional... but it was NOT designed with classical music in mind: There are no Composer or Conductor tags. Plus, for some unknown reason they put in a limit of 100 playlists, of which I like to organize my classical music into. I can't figure out why they allow for thousands of folders and 20,000 tracks, but let you organize that into no more than 100 playlists.

 

The solution, as you mentioned, is to first organize all your classical music into composer folders, and then create subfolders for each work.

[Artie75]

Yeah, it looks pretty basic. I installed the app and I'm playing with the demo database included. It seems you can only search by artist, track name, album name or folder name.

.

I have the Android version with Samsung Galaxy 3, which I imagine is similar to the iOS. I have "only" 600 classical CDs in the system and am learning by trial and error. Note that main menu choices allow you to LIST by Artists, Albums, Genres, Tracks and "Folders." System doesn't consider other tags such as Composer. But note that you can SEARCH for any word or phrase in the database. The results are grouped by Albums, Tracks, Folders and Files. The vast majority of my CDs have the composer in the title, and if they don't, I edit it in before transferring. For me, the Genre, is useless but I could have probably interpreted it to provide such info as composer, or particular favorite pipe organ, for example. These alternatives are enough for my purposes. Arthur

[khollister]

The app is actually pretty nice and very functional... but it was NOT designed with classical music in mind: There are no Composer or Conductor tags. Plus, for some unknown reason they put in a limit of 100 playlists, of which I like to organize my classical music into. I can't figure out why they allow for thousands of folders and 20,000 tracks, but let you organize that into no more than 100 playlists.

 

The solution, as you mentioned, is to first organize all your classical music into composer folders, and then create subfolders for each work.

 

So I gather you do not organize albums via folders, then (at least for classical) ? And then you use the folder view as your primary UI (again, for classical) ?

 

I have the Android version with Samsung Galaxy 3, which I imagine is similar to the iOS. I have "only" 600 classical CDs in the system and am learning by trial and error. Note that main menu choices allow you to LIST by Artists, Albums, Genres, Tracks and "Folders." System doesn't consider other tags such as Composer. But note that you can SEARCH for any word or phrase in the database. The results are grouped by Albums, Tracks, Folders and Files. The vast majority of my CDs have the composer in the title, and if they don't, I edit it in before transferring. For me, the Genre, is useless but I could have probably interpreted it to provide such info as composer, or particular favorite pipe organ, for example. These alternatives are enough for my purposes. Arthur

 

This is the approach I was thinking of. It has the advantage of not requiring me to completely redo my filesystem structure from my iTunes default (artist folder/album folder). I also probably need to get a little more sophisticated with genres - I currently have "classical", "rock", "jazz", "country", "soundtrack" and not much else.

 

I currently have about 600 classical albums as well, and fixing up the album title tags using Metadatics is not out of the question (especially since I have already started). The only issue is albums with a number of smaller works by varied composers.

 

For albums with one or two composers, I am currently using something like:

"Bartok: Piano Concerto No. 3, Prokovief: Piano Concerto No. 3"

 

For compliation albums, I could go with something like:

"English Music for Strings (Holst, Warlock, Ireland, Elgar)

 

I can't see running into issues with the 20k track limit since a lot of classical stuff I have is rarely listened to (recordings that have been superseded by performance and/or recording quality), and a lot of my pop/rock/country library is not in active use. I get most of my fill of classic rock & country from Sirius in the vehicles or via the HT rig in the living room (Aries thru pre\pro), so most of my headphone listening at home is classical. Even with a fairly high acquisition rate of new classical or jazz music, I'm not likely to exceed the database limit for several years. Realistically, I may well be using a different solution by then.

 

I have thought about waiting to see if an updated model arrives later this year, but I'm a bit concerned that Sony may either abandon the high-end model altogether or not maintain the attention to detail and build quality.

 

Part of the attraction with the HAP-Z1ES is that is a Luxman/Accuphase level of construction and sound quality without the Luxman/Accuphase price tag.

 

I considered the Marantz NA-11S1 or NA-8500, but the former is somewhat handicapped for DSD (only via USB from a computer or bridge like the Aries) and the 8500 is likely handicapped in SQ compared to the Sony.

 

And Linn is anti-DSD, so one of the DS players is out (price aside).

 

In case you can't tell, I'm trying to talk myself into this :-)

 

Keith

[Artie75]

Some further thoughts—which may help me organize them for myself as well: First the business of computerizing and organizing music files is new to me: no iTunes a folder with various snippets of music I’ve captured form various sits. Until last November, I was content with two Sony 300 disc players, until one broke down for the second time, and I saw the handwriting on the wall. I’ve repaired it once but again it needs much dismantling to replace one of several $2.00 rubber belts.

The Z1ES seemed ideal for my situation and I’ve enjoyed every minute of the sound. You might enjoy the included2 Internet radios vTuner and now TuneIn) which provide thousands of stations and are processed by the Z1ES to improve the sound.

 

So my ripping of my CDs was done using the built-in Windows Media Player, after a disaster using Creative MediaSource Organizer. The Sony Z1ES “analyzes the ID3 tag information . . .and registers the files to Genres, Artists, and Tracks. If music files do not contain ID3 tags or if any of the information is missing, the unit automatically access the Gracenote server on the web an obtains the music information.” The Z1 instructions (section 48) cryptically warn that the results of inputting the data depend on factors that vary among organizing programs, and may actually not transfer any metadata at all with “some” programs. I think that such a problem manifested itself with the Creative program, which left much to chance in the way Sony’s Gracenote program handled it.

 

The windows program organizes by Artist (the main Folder, then Album name, then track, and also provides the album art images. This seems to be enough for the Z1ES. All this can be edited by you using the HDD audio remote. SO, my file structure, with one track as an example, in the computer is, in Windows 7 style, (My computer name)\Users\(MyName)\Music\Artist name\AlbumName\Tracks. It may not be necessary for you to worry about album art or track data if you provide the basic title and artist, since the file will be examined by the Gracenote program which does pretty will with classical music and better than the Microsoft source which makes an attempt when I rip the discs. If I want to listen to a specific album, I use the Album icon on the remote. The Folder button addresses, it seems, the raw data, Artist folder as inputted into the Sony. I suspect you’ll figure this out faster and sooner than I, and will enjoy the contraption as most have. The only troublesome issue I’m dealing with, and it CAN be done, is editing errors in classification in which a track is either orphaned or put into the wrong album. The instructions provide for this, and is probably best left for another thread! Regards, Art

[khollister]

Some further thoughts—which may help me organize them for myself as well:

 

I already have my library ripped and tagged, so I have no intention of relying on the Sony to fill in metadata or art. All my cover art is embedded in the files and everything has the basic tags fully populated. My concern was how the metadata interacted with the remote app, but I think I have a plan there.

 

I use a Mac app called Metadatics to edit tags and artworkI, so I have no suggestion for Windows. I strongly suggest using dbPoweramp to rip and initially tag your CD's. It queries a number of databases for tag info and does a comprehensive search on the internet for cover art. Highly recommended. While I am primarily a Mac guy, I have a large 6 core Windows box I use specifically for music production/composition (cheap horsepower for sampled instruments) and I have a copy of dbPoweramp on there I use for all my ripping.

 

IMHO, the key to successful tagging is not to get too sophisticated. If you stick to Album, Track, Artist, Date, Genre & Track no., you will have the most consistent and trouble free experience as you use your library in different players & software. In particular, trying to get fancy with Album Artist & the Compliation flag will yield unpredictable results with some software. If you have further questions about metadata in general, feel free to start a new thread over in the software section so we don't get this thread too far off track.

[jaydee384]

Thankyou JM for the advice.

I just work out that will have close to 80 playlists and I assume playlists can only be created by the sony HDD app. 1500CDs and 20,000 tracks, that is a lot of time spend on using HDD app editing playlists. My question is,

Is there any ways of saving or backing up the playlists?

Also if using Z1es to obtain metadata and cover arts from sony's own Gracenote, can these updated flac files with metadata be save and backup?

Im just a bit concern incase the internal 1tb hdd die and I have do it all over again.

Cheers

[waltoly]

Thankyou JM for the advice.

Is there any ways of saving or backing up the playlists?

Also if using Z1es to obtain metadata and cover arts from sony's own Gracenote, can these updated flac files with metadata be save and backup?

Im just a bit concern incase the internal 1tb hdd die and I have do it all over again.

Cheers

 

You've hit upon a weakness of the Z1ES: Playlists cannot be backed up.

And another weakness: You cannot backup the metadata that you edit from within the remote player.

[JMotzi]

HDDs & SDDs will someday die, therefore it is never good practice to store data in only one place. So as I recommended, store all of your music elsewhere which is backed up regularly and then that which remains on your HAP Z1ES is also just a copy.

 

Like most things, the HAP Z1ES does some things very well (sound) and other things less well (library interface) and some things not well at all (playlists). So it's a matter of deciding what features are most important to you. You see the same discussions on this forum for software - some are the best at being a library, some for sound quality, etc. It's all about which feature are most important for you.

 

JM

[jaydee384]

Thanks JM.

I do value sound quality over cosmetic and marketing hype, and i believe z1es got what i wanted. I do have faith with sony software issues that it will improve over time with updates firmware. I do think the z1es are very good values after i read about music servers on this website The Well-Tempered Computer - Music servers

I dont think its hard for sony to write a small program that save the music profile such as playlists to a usb sd card. Think android phone with google account, getting a new phone, no problems just sync and your new phone will work and feel just like the old one.

Cheers

[wormcycle]

I just received my HAPZ1ES today and was completely surprised how big and heavy it is.

The setup took 15 minutes and only because I was very careful to check everything. 90% of my music is wav anywhere from 16/44 to 192/24. I ripped most of it myself using EZCD converter. Network connection: Sony unit is connected with cat 7 cable to very old NETGEAR 3DHD Wireless Home Theater Networking Kit WNHDB3004, which is connected to my main router. Sony thinks it is wired. It is transferring right now roughly six tracks per minute, all my carefully edited tags are making it so far to HAPZ1ES.

It is replacing DAC Magic 100 and is connected to custom TA2020 amplifier and full range driver speakers with custom made cabinets. Probably the cheapest setup that ever appeared on those pages. Clarity of the sound, even playing 44/16 CD is nevertheless amazing, and the speakers bass sounds like never before. So far so good. I will probably upgrade the whole gear up from HAPZ1ES in the next 12 months but I think I started with the right piece.

[khollister]

I'm sitting here waiting on Fedex to deliver mine today. Cleared out all the old stuff on the stand to make room (Rega DAC, HiFace EVO, LPS, Mac Mini). It will be nice to be down to the HAP-Z1ES, Woo WA-2 headphone amp and Power Plant Premier.

 

Come on Fedex !

[bmoura]

I'm sitting here waiting on Fedex to deliver mine today. Cleared out all the old stuff on the stand to make room (Rega DAC, HiFace EVO, LPS, Mac Mini). It will be nice to be down to the HAP-Z1ES, Woo WA-2 headphone amp and Power Plant Premier.

 

Come on Fedex !

 

You will love it. I have the HAP-Z1 in my home office and use it with headphones. A great product.

[khollister]

Fedex finally got here and everything is humming nicely. Needs to break in, of course, but it already kills my previous headphone front end. No operational glitches with the transfer software either.

 

Some of the sample DSD tracks are amazing (DSD virgin since I had no DSD capability other than SACD via HDMI on the HT system).

 

After a few days burn in, I plan to get a 1TB SSD to replace the HDD and do some before and after comparisons with a few reference tracks. I would love to try some Stillpoints, but I can't get over the cost of those yet.

 

My Woo WA-2 headphone amp has preamp outs too, so I'm also considering making some Mogami Neglex IC's to connect the AirMotiv 4s near field monitors I have on my music workstation desk in the same room :-) It's a several foot run over there, so I'm not springing for more Cardas cables for that (ouch).

 

So far, I'm very impressed. Color me happy (if somewhat poorer).

[bmoura]

Fedex finally got here and everything is humming nicely. Needs to break in, of course, but it already kills my previous headphone front end. No operational glitches with the transfer software either.

 

Some of the sample DSD tracks are amazing (DSD virgin since I had no DSD capability other than SACD via HDMI on the HT system).

 

After a few days burn in, I plan to get a 1TB SSD to replace the HDD and do some before and after comparisons with a few reference tracks. I would love to try some Stillpoints, but I can't get over the cost of those yet.

 

My Woo WA-2 headphone amp has preamp outs too, so I'm also considering making some Mogami Neglex IC's to connect the AirMotiv 4s near field monitors I have on my music workstation desk in the same room :-) It's a several foot run over there, so I'm not springing for more Cardas cables for that (ouch).

 

So far, I'm very impressed. Color me happy (if somewhat poorer).

 

Great. Before you get poorer (as you say), I'd recommend checking out some of the Free DSD Downloads sites and options out there. (As my brother likes to say "Free is Good"!) You could add some excellent sounding music to the HAP server for Free by visiting these sites:

 

• Just Listen at Native DSD - https://justlisten.nativedsd.com/
  
• David Elias at Oppo - OPPO Digital - Demo Tracks by DSD Pioneer Musician David Elias
  
• Eric Bibb at DSD File - DSD File | Free DSD Download
  
• Blue Coast Records - http://bluecoastrecords.com/free-downloads
  

[khollister]

Have about 50 hrs on the HAP so far and it is starting to get it's groove on. Changed out the HDD for a 1TB Crucial BX100 SSD - difficult to say for certain due to the changeover time, but I think there is a slight improvement in the blackness and harmonic purity. It could be my imagination, too.

 

This thing really does kick ass considering the price (yeah, it's $2K, but it certainly seems to punch out of its class as far as sound quality). Listening to Fantasia On a Theme By Thomas Tallis as I type this (the Boult version with LPO on EMI) and it has never sounded this good. Got goosebumps on the final string chord.

 

Did get a few DSD albums after some research:

 

Shelby Lynne - Just a Little Lovin' - never had this in any form, so I figured I should get with the program

David Elias - Acoustic Trio - DSD Sessions

Piltch & Davis - Take One

The Carpenters - Singles - what can I say, I'm that age. These songs were everywhere in high school and college and this album sounds fantastic

[bmoura]

This thing really does kick ass considering the price (yeah, it's $2K, but it certainly seems to punch out of its class as far as sound quality). Listening to Fantasia On a Theme By Thomas Tallis as I type this (the Boult version with LPO on EMI) and it has never sounded this good. Got goosebumps on the final string chord.

 

Did get a few DSD albums after some research:

Shelby Lynne - Just a Little Lovin' - never had this in any form, so I figured I should get with the program

David Elias - Acoustic Trio - DSD Sessions

Piltch & Davis - Take One

The Carpenters - Singles - what can I say, I'm that age. These songs were everywhere in high school and college and this album sounds fantastic

 

Some good ones there. Enjoy!

[jaydee384]

Hi. Can anyone able confirm is the hdd audio app "genres" editable, ie change, rename, delete or ADD new genres.

Thanks

[Artie75]

Yes, within limits using the HDD audio remote app. You can edit or change or delete a genre tag of specific albums or tracks using the remote app. If you misspell, and create, a new genre, I see no way of correcting it other than create a new one for the track in question, and then reassigning individual albums/tracks to the label with the correct spelling.