The dreaded iTunes exclamation point of death

[Daudio]

Do I understand this correctly? You are running OSX 10.5 with 1.5 GB RAM?

What version of iTunes are you working with.

 

Yes, you are correct. I bought this Dual 533mhz G-4 tower in the middle of 2010, used, from a friend. It maxes out at 1.5 GB, and I didn't even fill it up right away. Got a WD 1 TB drive too. It started off with Tiger (10.4), and I managed to find a $75 copy of the Leopard install disk on eBay and fiddled it into the system in the latter part of 2011 (the disk soon succumbed to bit rot). This G-4 was not going any higher up the OS ladder.

 

iTunes 9.2.1 is where I am at, and where I started. I got scared off of 10, by something I haven't been able to remember in a long time. I am planning on converting to 10.6.3 sometime, but my iTunes db is full of playlist folders, ratings and playcounts, that I would be apoplectic to loose ! So I am proceeding carefully, and slowly.

 

I have been using 11 on my raw Mini, and so far I hate it, because I usually manage my library in List view, with a hierarchical set of playlists, not unlike stuff I've long done with database interfaces, and spreadsheets for work and other hobbies, and iTunes 11 seems actively opposed to my way of doing things.. arrrrrggh

 

Good grief ! I'm feeling remarkibly chatty today ??!??

[Audio_ELF]

With iTunes 11 you can turn the side bar on and the interface is then very similar to previous versions...

[Paul R]

Wow- I never expected to be the outlier on this subject, but...

 

I still contend letting iTunes muck about with one's audio files is a really bad idea. Editing the metadata, embedding album images into the files, and carefully naming the files in folders and directories and making them read only to iTunes works very well to avoid the "Where did that damn file just up and disappear to??!!" problem.

 

As a side benefit, it also makes it possible to drop and rebuild an iTunes database without loosing any data files, album connections, etc.

 

Definitely in this case, YMMV!

 

-Paul

 

 

Whoa, Paul ! I think you are working with some outmoded info there. I have had that set in my system since I started. And yeah, iTunes changes the folders in your physical library. But it does it smoothly and seamlessly thru integration with the Finder. I can watch it happen as I change the Artist or Album name fields. I do so to minimize the artist folders under iTunes/Music/, by moving the pesky guest artist text somewhere else.

 

Opps, maybe it is not as nice on the Windows side, but I don't have any iTunes experience there - no reason for me bother...

 

And, I like the simple, consistent, structure. I assume that is the same on the dark side

[Allan F]

I know that. But you have to admit, even accidentally, it makes a decent pun- the music has gotten on the loose, even if it got lost somehow... no?

 

I never let iTunes loose anywhere near my PCs.

[wgscott]

Someone registered to this site and PM-ed me the solution. In this case I batch-renamed all the files, within iTunes, to put "(Decca)" at the end. I can't remember why, but I presume they were getting messed up with some other version I had. In any case, the paths on the missing files not only have "localhost" at the beginning, but also lack the "(Decca)" at the end. My guess is that they got left in the old folder which I then cleaned out without looking in it.

[Jud]

I have generally let iTunes do its thing, but would be ready to ditch it in a second if, for example, whatever Damien comes up with for library management suits me better. iTunes has some aggravating habits, like calling albums where artists do a couple of covers (e.g., Beatles for Sale) or have guest harmony vocalists on a couple of songs (Roseanne Cash's "the List") "Compilations," and putting them off in a folder separate from the artist's other albums. Or sometimes it will do kind of the opposite, as when it insists on moving the first track of the compilation "The Gathering" into a separate folder under the name of the individual artist on that track. And if you want to move your library to a new location....

 

For now I put up with it for lack of anything convenient and free but without the frustrations.

[wgscott]

You can over-ride those settings. They are just from whatever database is interrogated when you import. I always check and customize everything. I really hate, for example, having a 10 album CD show up as 10 different icons in album view, so I give them all one album name, and reference the volume in the "disk X of Y" tag.

[Snowmonkey]

For now I put up with it for lack of anything convenient and free but without the frustrations.

How about JRiver for the Mac? The Windows version does a great job of library management. It's not free, but hell, 50 bucks to manage a multi-thousand dollar collection?

[wappinghigh]

^ I'm with Jud.. So hanging out for the new version of A+ with a standalone library.. iTunes has become the most bloated piece of rubbish software in the entire OSX space.. And to think this is pretty much where it all started with Apple originally (remember when mac's were state of the art for music computer playback).. and then it was behind the resurgence again (original ipod<>itunes sync that worked). Now? Well take off the rose coloured glasses people and look what iTunes has become. Sad but true. I now only use itunes for every bit of media management *but* music library management.. it should be renamed iEverythingbuttunes. Still I guess that's what Apple want these days, because they are probably not making as much money out of music anymore. Everything about that company has got such a commercial underside to it.. I suppose you can't blame them, but seriously.. how about still looking after the CA true believers?

[Melvin]

I use iTunes with my dedicated audio-only Mac mini with very few problems. I keep it very lean .. music files only (no apps or video), no downloads from the istore, and no syncing with idevices. Occasionally I need to alter metadata but otherwise let iTunes do its thing. It's not perfect but I certainly wouldn't call it rubbish. That being said, I will dump it when both Damien and Sonic Studio provide a better library function.

[Musicophile]

Guys, I just want to manage expectations in what Damien as a one man show can achieve with a library management system. I know Itunes bashing is very popular here, but I think it is actually doing a pretty nice job on about 80-90% of the functionality I need, and this with a rather large library. And I don't expect Audirvana soon to have rather powerful features like the smart playlists. The moment they add support for multiple artists and genres, I don't need any other library management software.

 

The only issue is that Itunes obviously requires an external player to sound well, and it seems that it is very hard to achieve to have this link work really smoothly. On my system, both Audirvana and Amarra have quirks in Itunes integrated mode.

[Jud]

You can over-ride those settings. They are just from whatever database is interrogated when you import. I always check and customize everything. I really hate, for example, having a 10 album CD show up as 10 different icons in album view, so I give them all one album name, and reference the volume in the "disk X of Y" tag.

 

Yes, and I've done that; but since a good part of the appeal of iTunes or any other such software for me is to be able to do what I want automagically, with as little user intervention as possible, when I do have to intervene it's an irritation. Minor, but I wish it happened less or not at all.

[mwheelerk]

Wow- I never expected to be the outlier on this subject, but...

 

I still contend letting iTunes muck about with one's audio files is a really bad idea. Editing the metadata, embedding album images into the files, and carefully naming the files in folders and directories and making them read only to iTunes works very well to avoid the "Where did that damn file just up and disappear to??!!" problem.

 

As a side benefit, it also makes it possible to drop and rebuild an iTunes database without loosing any data files, album connections, etc.

 

Definitely in this case, YMMV!

 

-Paul

 

Hi Paul

 

over the past couple of years I have read your posts with interest and you have been personally helpful to me in a couple of instances (you got me moving in the right direction with XLD set up) but in this case I would disagree. I have always allowed iTunes to keep my files organized and other than a couple of instances through my own error I have never had any significant file missing instances.

 

I've stated it before but the only issue I have experienced before is when my external HDD where I house my library was not available (it didn't boot up, I had ejected it or turned it off etc) and I starting ripping and iTunes reset preferences to the default location on the internal HDD. Oh, there is another instance that has happened twice. When doing an update to XLD my preferences in XLD went to default settings rather than my preferred settings.

[4est]

On the windows side I rather like MusicBee for management without the commercialism.

Guys, I just want to manage expectations in what Damien as a one man show can achieve with a library management system. I know Itunes bashing is very popular here, but I think it is actually doing a pretty nice job on about 80-90% of the functionality I need, and this with a rather large library. And I don't expect Audirvana soon to have rather powerful features like the smart playlists. The moment they add support for multiple artists and genres, I don't need any other library management software.

 

The only issue is that Itunes obviously requires an external player to sound well, and it seems that it is very hard to achieve to have this link work really smoothly. On my system, both Audirvana and Amarra have quirks in Itunes integrated mode.

[mwheelerk]

I guess I don't quite understand the iTunes 'bloat' issue. I understand there are things there I and others may have no interest in (Audiobooks, Podcast, ITunes Radio) but other than the size of the software file if you do not use these features how does it effect or impact the performance and of your individual usage, needs and interest in using iTunes as your library manager?

 

My interest in seeking out and trying another library manager/playback system is my unproven/unfounded sense at this point that iTunes will turn into a completely cloud based steaming system leaving the importing of physical media behind. It's a free software use to entice people to buy downloads from the iTunes Store. There is no money for this profit making company (much like any other profit making enterprise) and they like everyone else are looking for new ways to maximize those profits. I am glad to have found JRiver for Mac which is a viable alternative and safety backup to iTunes.

[wgscott]

I have one copy of iTunes open 24/7 to serve music and movies and TV shows (to stream them to ATV) and to wirelessly sync with various iPods and iPads and iPhones. I allow it to automatically organize all my media files. The only functionality I don't use is stuff like iTunes radio and genius playlists. I use Audirvana in iTunes-integrated mode because it works transparently, so I can control it with the iOS Remote.app.

 

I have not found it problematic at all (apart from the occurrence in this post, which was probably user error on my part).

[Cycleman]

Are you buy any chance, letting iTunes organize your music files? That is, at least in my limited experience, a sure fire way to lose music when you least expect it.

 

It moves them and puts them under some other name, but leaves the darn database entries. End result, that pesky "!" mark...

 

-Paul

 

I am not sure it's true that iTunes moves files and puts them under some other name -- unless you tell it to. The user really is in charge here, as long as Preferences are set properly and you know what they're doing to the process.

 

That is, the moving part is true -- if your iTunes preferences, under the "Advanced" tab, has checked the "Copy files to iTunes media folder when adding to library." That's the check mark I have, and I find it a best practice to keep all my iTunes files in a single media folder, on a single external hard drive. As Mark Twain said, something like: "Put all your eggs in one basket, and watch that basket."

 

So, when I either rip a CD or buy and download some HD files, the process of adding them to my music library moves them to that single external drive, which is how I want them. One reason I want them that way: Easier to back up a single external drive than if my music file were in multiple locations. Another reason: Only one path to use -- the iTunes media folder -- to keep track of my music files.

 

And the renaming part is only partially true -- if your iTunes preferences, under the same tab, has checked the "Keep iTunes Media folder organized." Again, that's the check mark I have, and again, I find it a best practice because the way the iTunes database organizes files on my hard drive is pretty logical to me.

 

That is, there's a Music folder, and in that folder are various folders named by the artist for any recording (unless it's a compilation album, with more than one artist, and that goes into the "Compilations" folder). And in each artist's folder are folders with the name of each album I have by that artist. And in each album folder are the actual tracks themselves, named from 01 - TRACK NAME and so forth.

 

Perhaps the problem, and this rings a bell for me, comes about when in iTunes preferences, under the "General" tab, a person has chosen something other than "Show CD" next to the "When a CD is inserted" drop-down menu. For example, if instead of "Show CD" you have selected "Import CD," then iTunes will find track names and use them for the import which could appear as if iTunes has put them under some other name.

 

But instead, when you have "Show CD" selected, another best practice, iTunes finds album name, artist name(s), track names, and other metadata for any CD using Gracenote. But then iTunes stops, giving me a chance to tweak names that are incorrect or don't follow the pattern I like for my music database or add data that isn't always there, such as composer. Yes, that takes more time, but I have total control over the names any album, track, et cetera uses when it goes into my library.

 

I won't say I have everything solved, but since the time I figured out how iTunes actually operates, I have not lost any tracks.

 

Dave, who has found that the best time to change or tweak an album's metadata is right after he's inserted the CD but before he rips it since he has the CD's info right next to him at that time and he has also found that Google Image Search is a great way to find high-definition album covers and is better than letting iTunes or Apple handle that which again takes more time and effort but bears better results

[Cycleman]

iTunes changes the folders in your physical library. But it does it smoothly and seamlessly thru integration with the Finder. I can watch it happen as I change the Artist or Album name fields. I do so to minimize the artist folders under iTunes/Music/, by moving the pesky guest artist text somewhere else.

 

Yes, I do the same thing with moving a guest artist's name to prevent a single artist's album from winding up in the Compilations folder, or worse, if the Compilations box isn't checked, as more than one album.

 

I've found the best place for those "pesky" guest artist names are with the track name itself.

 

So, on the excellent Bert Jansch album, The Black Swan, here's how one track is named: "Katie Cruel [with Beth Orton]"

[Cycleman]

I never let iTunes loose anywhere near my PCs.

 

I never let Windows computers loose anywhere near my music.

[Cycleman]

You can over-ride those settings. They are just from whatever database is interrogated when you import. I always check and customize everything. I really hate, for example, having a 10 album CD show up as 10 different icons in album view, so I give them all one album name, and reference the volume in the "disk X of Y" tag.

 

"Check and customize…"

Oh, you say it so much more succinctly than I did.

[Cycleman]

Yes, and I've done that; but since a good part of the appeal of iTunes or any other such software for me is to be able to do what I want automagically, with as little user intervention as possible, when I do have to intervene it's an irritation. Minor, but I wish it happened less or not at all.

 

Jud, I can't imagine any music ripping/import software getting it "right" automatically.

 

Whatever data source it relies on for the metadata is imperfect. And even if the metadata is correct, so to speak, it might not fully agree with the way you want your music database.

 

So, while I'm looking forward to Audirvana Plus 2.0, and however that database is implemented, I can only imagine having to hand-tweak things there too.

 

Dave, who remembers 30 years ago shortly after Apple first came out with the Macintosh and published a magazine along with several universities called "Wheels of the Mind" which title was based on parallels between computers and bicycles and in both case they extend the human mind (computer) or body (bicycle) but only when the human puts in some energy into the process

[Jud]

Yes, and I've done that; but since a good part of the appeal of iTunes or any other such software for me is to be able to do what I want automagically, with as little user intervention as possible, when I do have to intervene it's an irritation. Minor, but I wish it happened less or not at all.

 

Jud, I can't imagine any music ripping/import software getting it "right" automatically.

 

Whatever data source it relies on for the metadata is imperfect. And even if the metadata is correct, so to speak, it might not fully agree with the way you want your music database.

 

So, while I'm looking forward to Audirvana Plus 2.0, and however that database is implemented, I can only imagine having to hand-tweak things there too.

 

Dave, who remembers 30 years ago shortly after Apple first came out with the Macintosh and published a magazine along with several universities called "Wheels of the Mind" which title was based on parallels between computers and bicycles and in both case they extend the human mind (computer) or body (bicycle) but only when the human puts in some energy into the process

 

I was waiting for someone to bring that up.

 

What I'm looking for is two things: customizability and flexibility. I want to be able to tweak the metadata the software bases its decision on per recording in advance, so with a change of one setting the recording imports the way I want it. It would also be nice to be able to access metadata from multiple databases, as XLD does with cover art.

[Snowmonkey]

Why does the library manager need to get involved with the physical folder structure in the first place? Despite using a Windows PC for my music, I actually rip CD's to our NAS using my wife's Mac. XLD enables me to specify which folder each rip goes into and there they stay. JRiver on the PC then handles categorizing everything neatly and elegantly, though like wgscott, I've been known to rename each CD from a multi-album collection with the same name, since the division is usually arbitrary and based on the capacity limitations of individual CD's. Also, sorting classical music into folders based on the artist's name is simply not the way it is normally organised.

[wgscott]

individual CD's.

 

CDs.

[Cycleman]

Why does the library manager need to get involved with the physical folder structure in the first place?

 

To keep track of where the music files are, to call them up as needed???

 

XLD enables me to specify which folder each rip goes into and there they stay.

 

And the benefit of that is…?

 

Really, I'd like to understand how that helps you.