Power cords

[freesteve]

For my Focal solo 6 BE... suggestions that will make a sonic difference are appreciated. Thank you.

[alexwgoody]

Didn't we just go over this?

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-general-forum/power-chords-18787/

 

To summarize, you have two camps:

 

"The only sound I hear is the echo in my wallet where the money used to be. Perhaps others have different experience based on how clean their power supply is and how well their gear is designed. I will be moving soon and once I have everything set up in a proper listening room I might borrow some power cables and try again. Don't take anything for granted and take everything with 300mg of salt." (PopPop)

 

or

 

"Power cords are like interconnects, if you don’t hear a difference with interconnects then you may not hear a difference in power cords. You will want to try before you buy.

To me my system sounds awful without my power cords. If I just change one of my power cords to a factory power cord I lose the magic. It does not matter which one. Another interesting thing is if I switch my amp power cords and my preamp power cords which are different I also lose the magic." (coxhaus)

[wgscott]

If factory-supplied power cords limit the capabilities of audio equipment, why do manufacturers provide power cords that cripple the capabilities of the equipment they are trying to sell?

[Jsmith]

If factory-supplied power cords limit the capabilities of audio equipment, why do manufacturers provide power cords that cripple the capabilities of the equipment they are trying to sell?

 

This seems like an over simplification.

 

If you switch the word "cripple" and again use "limit" then you can have a conversation. The same could be said of why manufactures choose certain driver materials over others. In most cases everything is a compromise and the same could be said for the power cables provided.

 

In addition, some manufactures do offer upgraded power cables. The provided one gets you started at one cost, and when you are ready or can afford an upgrade, you have that option.

[baddog]

Well because at least in the case of one company, if not more, because they also sell power cords?

[Allan F]

If factory-supplied power cords limit the capabilities of audio equipment, why do manufacturers provide power cords that cripple the capabilities of the equipment they are trying to sell?

 

A more appropriate question, IMO, would read:

 

If factory-supplied power cords limit the capabilities of audio equipment, why don't manufacturers provide better power cords that fully exploit the capabilities of the equipment they are trying to sell?

 

Answer: $$$ and competitive pricing.

[freesteve]

Anyone have any experience with Shunyata power cords?

[bill32]

I have the Shunyata Venom-3 on every thing. They replaced Kimber power cords and to me they seem to be an improvement.

[freesteve]

I have the Shunyata Venom-3 on every thing. They replaced Kimber power cords and to me they seem to be an improvement.

 

I am going to use with my FOCAL solo 6 BE. Did you get the 15 or 20 Amp version? Thanks, enjoy.

[89reksal]

OP's original question:

For my Focal solo 6 BE... suggestions that will make a sonic difference are appreciated. Thank you.

 

wsscott's reply:

If factory-supplied power cords limit the capabilities of audio equipment, why do manufacturers provide power cords that cripple the capabilities of the equipment they are trying to sell?

 

Although possibly an interesting question to some, and possibly worthy of a separate thread (that I would then be able to ignore), what the heck does that reply have to do with this thread? I'm personally getting more than sick of seeing these kinds of threads being constantly derailed by the same usual suspects. I'm sure we all respect everyone else's opinions, but please keep them to yourself until asked. This entire forum is going downhill rapidly because of this behaviour imo.

 

Bill

[Paul R]

I would suggest the word "cripple" might be more appropriate- nobody would sell a "crippled" product though. So it seams reasonable to suggest they do not believe the power cable makes a sonic difference in their product.

 

If they did, they would ship the best power cord they can afford to include, or have options to upgrade, or something or other like that.

 

-Paul

 

 

This seems like an over simplification.

 

If you switch the word "cripple" and again use "limit" then you can have a conversation. The same could be said of why manufactures choose certain driver materials over others. In most cases everything is a compromise and the same could be said for the power cables provided.

 

In addition, some manufactures do offer upgraded power cables. The provided one gets you started at one cost, and when you are ready or can afford an upgrade, you have that option.

[freesteve]

OP's original question:

 

 

wsscott's reply:

 

 

Although possibly an interesting question to some, and possibly worthy of a separate thread (that I would then be able to ignore), what the heck does that reply have to do with this thread? I'm personally getting more than sick of seeing these kinds of threads being constantly derailed by the same usual suspects. I'm sure we all respect everyone else's opinions, but please keep them to yourself until asked. This entire forum is going downhill rapidly because of this behaviour imo.

 

Bill

 

If I have distracted you I humbly apologize. I am merely searching for suggestions and if I have intruded on you... oops & most sorry!

[Blake]

I have bought, sold and borrowed (from The Cable Company) many different power cords. I have had Nordost, Kimber, Audience, Synergistic Research, Shunyata, Cardas, Running Springs and others in my system. Most of them were, to varying degrees, an improvement over the stock power cord.

 

The power cords that have been significantly better than all others are Sablon Audio cords. Sablon Audio is based in London, but the owner has a box of his cables for demo floating around the United States. All you have to do is email the owner, Mark Coles, and put your name on the demo list. All you pay is the cost to ship the box to the next person on the demo list. No obligation to buy and no sales pressure.

 

Sablon power cords have been one of my very best audio investments.

 

Sablon Audio

[wgscott]

OP's original question:

 

Although possibly an interesting question to some, and possibly worthy of a separate thread (that I would then be able to ignore), what the heck does that reply have to do with this thread? I'm personally getting more than sick of seeing these kinds of threads being constantly derailed by the same usual suspects. I'm sure we all respect everyone else's opinions, but please keep them to yourself until asked. This entire forum is going downhill rapidly because of this behaviour imo.

 

Bill

 

My question was in reply to alexwgoody's comments immediately preceding it. It's called a conversation.

 

cf: thread view:

 

 

If you don't want to participate, that is your choice. Fortunately your opinion of what constitutes acceptable conversation isn't universal. If it really bothers you that much, simply don't read it, or better yet, put me on your ignore list, and I will pay you the same courtesy.

 

Meanwhile, don't tell me what to post. Chances are I have no higher opinion of your opinions than you do of mine.

 

Good day.

[jkortela]

I have Cardas Golden Reference Power, and in my opinion, it is really good. There is much more detail and dynamics in music compared to the cable supplied by the Densen Audio Technologies.

[bluesman]

I would suggest the word "cripple" might be more appropriate- nobody would sell a "crippled" product though. So it seams reasonable to suggest they do not believe the power cable makes a sonic difference in their product.

 

If they did, they would ship the best power cord they can afford to include, or have options to upgrade, or something or other like that.

 

-Paul

To be honest, the marginal difference / improvement from cabling etc is simply not huge, despite the huge adjectives used to describe them. I & my wife did and still do hear an improvement from my Audioquest USB cable over the cheap generic one it replaced between my Beaglebone Black and my DAC. But when I went back to the old one to see where I started, I wasn't immediately nauseated and could still live happily with the sound quality (as I did before I got the AQ cable). I have not heard any differences in power cables in my system, although I have 400 amp service to the house with 2 dedicated 20 amp lines with a 6-outlet industrial wiremold on each for my audio equipment, so voltage is stable and there's virtually no noise or interference from other devices.

 

The cumulative purported gains from interconnects, speaker and power cables, and power conditioners would make 4" near-field monitors sound like Focal Utopias if they were all as dramatic as some say. So "cripple" seems a bit harsh for the change one might reasonably expect from a better power cable.

 

Most manufacturers produce to a price point and price to a business plan. Adding a power cable that costs the manufacturer another $25 to a $1000 speaker would bump the MSRP up by at least twice that, which would raise their fears that customers would consider either a less costly alternative or figure that a more costly alternative must be better and wouldn't cost that much more. Would a $50 to $100 difference matter for a $1000 speaker? If it didn't, why would so many lines have models separated by 10% or less per speaker? And the "best" power cables would cost even a manufacturer far more than $50.

[Allan F]

To be honest, the marginal difference / improvement from cabling etc is simply not huge, despite the huge adjectives used to describe them.

 

IMO, the effect of cabling, in general, and power cords, in particular, is both system and component dependent. A Virtual Dynamics power cord, the installation of which was akin to wrestling a 15 foot python because of its incredible stiffness, made a very significant difference to the bass reproduction of a friend's system, giving it far greater bass power and impact or 'slam', when it replaced the stock cord of his amplifier.

 

I had a modified Sony SACD player which included the addition of a separate outboard tube rectified power supply. Replacing the stock cord of the power supply with a quality aftermarket cord produced a very significant improvement in sound quality, whereas doing the same to the player itself resulted in only a slight or subtle improvement. In fact, an acquaintance bought the same player and, having only one aftermarket power cord, he installed it on the player. He wrote to me expressing his disappointment with the sound quality of his new purchase. He couldn't thank me enough after I suggested he move the cord to the power supply, as the change elevated the sound quality to the level of his initial expectations.

[burnspbesq]

I have bought, sold and borrowed (from The Cable Company) many different power cords. I have had Nordost, Kimber, Audience, Synergistic Research, Shunyata, Cardas, Running Springs and others in my system. Most of them were, to varying degrees, an improvement over the stock power cord.

 

The power cords that have been significantly better than all others are Sablon Audio cords. Sablon Audio is based in London, but the owner has a box of his cables for demo floating around the United States. All you have to do is email the owner, Mark Coles, and put your name on the demo list. All you pay is the cost to ship the box to the next person on the demo list. No obligation to buy and no sales pressure.

 

Sablon power cords have been one of my very best audio investments.

 

Sablon Audio

 

I don't mean to question or denigrate your experience with the Sablon cables. But the marketing materials are an excellent example of why so many people are so skeptical about cables. "Noise reducing crystals?" "Anti-vibration Magic Paint?" Oy vey.

[Blake]

I don't mean to question or denigrate your experience with the Sablon cables. But the marketing materials are an excellent example of why so many people are so skeptical about cables. "Noise reducing crystals?" "Anti-vibration Magic Paint?" Oy vey.

 

No worries at all. I actually agree with you that these terms do sound more than a bit silly. I think terms such as these do heighten the b.s. meter.

 

I hope people can get past the mumbo jumbo marketing terms because these Sablon cords do perform.

[bluesman]

No worries at all. I actually agree with you that these terms do sound more than a bit silly. I think terms such as these do heighten the b.s. meter.

 

I hope people can get past the mumbo jumbo marketing terms because these Sablon cords do perform.

But using terms like "very significant difference " and "far greater bass power" to describe the kinds of incremental improvements most of us attribute to such changes seems to me like a lesser form of the same hyperbole. If you change your interconnects, your speaker cables, and your power cables, and each change confers "very significant differences" on your sound, you'd either have the SQ of a $200k system for $5k plus your cables (which simply doesn't happen) or we'd need some new super-terms to describe the hgh end because the current accolades would be transferred to systems of far lower cost. And if such large gains in SQ were actually achievable in most of our systems, there'd simply be no more market for systems costing over $20k (except for those who have an everything-that-costs-more-has-to-be-better fetish). We'd all simply spend $5k on equipment, $5k on cabling, and $5k on ancillaries and we'd have the best possible sound.

 

A little restraint in describing the improvements reported for these changes and additions would go a long way toward helping people believe them. I too scream "Eureka!" ecstatically when delighted by great sound - but few individual changes are objectively great enough to merit such ecstasy on other than an emotional basis. Our delight at hearing them is probably far greater than the actual degree of improvement achieved.

[Blake]

All fair points bluesman. The hard part is that many of us get quite excited about improvements that may seem trivial to people who are not audio enthusiasts, or even audiophiles. All these proclamations require context. It is all relative and this measuring stick will vary greatly from user to user and system to system.

 

That is why the only solution is to try for yourself, in your system, your room, your ears, etc. and decide for yourself. Skepticism is a good thing, just as having an open mind is a good thing.

[Panelhead]

For my Focal solo 6 BE... suggestions that will make a sonic difference are appreciated. Thank you.

I always use shielded power cords. And size the conductors to the component. For the Focals, 14 ga Volex shielded cords would be my choice.

[Paul R]

I think changes like that are relative - a DAC make make an enormous improvement, both in my satisfaction and in the joy I derive from my system. But the change itself may be - in absolute terms - rather minuscule.

 

I kind of feel it is on we readers to take the time to realize what folks really mean, or failing that, ask polite questions to gain more understanding. YMMV, etc.

 

Example: Speaker cables made a larger change in my system than anything else save the choice of speakers and some room treatments. To me, they are a very important part of the system. However, in absolute terms, I do not think they made a very large change in the sound. It just happens that the change they made is extraordinarily pleasing to me.

 

I could describe it like that, with all those qualifications, or I could just say "speaker cables made a huge difference in my system." Both are true statements. I could follow that up and say the component that makes the next largest change is my DAC, but why press my luck?

 

 

But using terms like "very significant difference " and "far greater bass power" to describe the kinds of incremental improvements most of us attribute to such changes seems to me like a lesser form of the same hyperbole. If you change your interconnects, your speaker cables, and your power cables, and each change confers "very significant differences" on your sound, you'd either have the SQ of a $200k system for $5k plus your cables (which simply doesn't happen) or we'd need some new super-terms to describe the hgh end because the current accolades would be transferred to systems of far lower cost. And if such large gains in SQ were actually achievable in most of our systems, there'd simply be no more market for systems costing over $20k (except for those who have an everything-that-costs-more-has-to-be-better fetish). We'd all simply spend $5k on equipment, $5k on cabling, and $5k on ancillaries and we'd have the best possible sound.

 

A little restraint in describing the improvements reported for these changes and additions would go a long way toward helping people believe them. I too scream "Eureka!" ecstatically when delighted by great sound - but few individual changes are objectively great enough to merit such ecstasy on other than an emotional basis. Our delight at hearing them is probably far greater than the actual degree of improvement achieved.

[Cycleman]

Of all the changes I made in my main music system in 2013 -- which is everything in my signature below, except for the speakers -- here's how I'd rank the strength and non-subtle nature of sound quality improvements, top three:

 

* Dedicated Mac Mini (instead of a Squeezebox Touch)

* Chord QuteHD DAC & King Rex PSU Mkii (instead of a CIAudio VDA-2 DAC & CIAudio VAC-1 power supply)

* Shunyata Hydra power conditioner, w/Venom cable (instead of PS Audio Duet)

 

So, in that light, power changes were a big deal for me.

 

Dave, who hasn't figured out where to put the Hydra in the type of signature he has here which is why it's not there

[Allan F]

But using terms like "very significant difference " and "far greater bass power" to describe the kinds of incremental improvements most of us attribute to such changes seems to me like a lesser form of the same hyperbole.

 

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion, but I completely stand by my earlier descriptions of "very significant difference" and "far greater bass power". You see, David, I was there and heard the system before and after the installation of the power cord while you are merely speculating. My intention was to describe what I experienced. Whether someone else believes it is the least of my concerns. I hope you won't mind me inquiring as to what special abilities you possess that allow to dismiss another person's experience as hyperbole and not objectively achievable.