Hiro Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 Of course Jared's is DSD, and of course I played it and hundreds of other native DSD recordings on both DACs. I work with them, for gosh sakes. That's me on the left (bottom pic)On The Right: DSD | Stereophile.com My question, then, to you is, has the "damn politeness" haunted the above Rachel Podger DSD recording on the QuteHD as well? So that you basically preferred any PCM recording on this DAC to ultra-realistic Grimm DSD recordings from Channel Classics? Link to comment
ted_b Posted January 15, 2014 Author Share Posted January 15, 2014 My question, then, to you is, has the "damn politeness" haunted the above Rachel Podger DSD recording on the QuteHD as well? So that you basically preferred any PCM recording on this DAC to ultra-realistic Grimm DSD recordings from Channel Classics? Of course not. Hiro, I have to stop you misquoting me everywhere. I never ever ever said that the QuteJD DAC is so bad at DSD that a compressed PCM (Red Hot Chili Peppers Stadium Arcadium?) beats a great DSD recording, so stop all this egging on. Of course great DSD sounds wonderful. This is a wonderful DAC, and it plays back great DSD very nicely. In this silly example, if Jared had native DXD edits (from 8.0 or less Pyramix editing), however, the QuteHD (EX required for this example) DAC would play them back even nicer, cuz it's a better PCM DAC than a DSD DAC. Why are you wanting this to be black and white? Why do you continue to say that if it does PCM well, it must suck at DSD. It doesn't, not in the least. But it's not the level of the Meitner. Where the Meitner is assertive and front row (or front 5 rows) in most cases, the Qute is 15-20 rows back and an ever so slight veiled sound in compariosn.....hell, some may like the perspective. Net/net, the Qute HD DAC, playing great DSD, sounds better than many DSD DACs I've had in here, but there are a small handful, with my Meitner at the top, that out perform it in DSD (and I haven't heard the new drivers). It sounds better than ALL PCM DACs I've had in here. Does this make any more sense to you, Hiro, cuz I'm worn out? "We're all bozos on this bus"....F.T. My JRIver tutorial videos Actual JRIver tutorial MP4 video links My eleven yr old SACD Ripping Guide for PS3 (needs updating but still works) US Technical Advisor, NativeDSD.com Link to comment
Hiro Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 Of course not. Hiro, I have to stop you misquoting me everywhere. I never ever ever said that the QuteJD DAC is so bad at DSD that a compressed PCM (Red Hot Chili Peppers Stadium Arcadium?) beats a great DSD recording, so stop all this egging on. Just asking. I was curious to hear what you think about Channel's native Grimm DSD recordings played back via the QuteHD. It's good to know they sound better than the compressed-to-death PCM recording of Red Hot Chili Peppers. That's something. Link to comment
Hiro Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 This is a wonderful DAC, and it plays back great DSD very nicely. In this silly example, if Jared had native DXD edits (from 8.0 or less Pyramix editing), however, the QuteHD (EX required for this example) DAC would play them back even nicer, cuz it's a better PCM DAC than a DSD DAC. I (finally ) get it - the QuteHD DAC would play a downsampled PCM version better than the original native DSD tracks. Now that really sucks because I would have to downsample all my DSD albums to PCM. Link to comment
Hiro Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 But I have listened to redbook in dCS systems that I believe that you would not be able to discern from Hi-rez... From Fremer's dCS Vivaldi review: "Which is not to say, "Come back, Compact Disc—all is forgiven!" With hi-rez recordings at my fingertips, including some for which I also had the CDs, two things were clear: 1) While the best-engineered and -produced CDs can sound pretty good, CD sound pales next to SACD or hi-rez PCM; and 2) Those who trumpet CD's transparency and claim that higher resolution is inaudible are being guided by mathematical "proof"—not their ears, which for some reason they fail to trust." dCS Vivaldi digital playback system Page 2 | Stereophile.com Link to comment
MikeJazz Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 From Fremer's dCS Vivaldi review: "Which is not to say, "Come back, Compact Disc—all is forgiven!" With hi-rez recordings at my fingertips, including some for which I also had the CDs, two things were clear: 1) While the best-engineered and -produced CDs can sound pretty good, CD sound pales next to SACD or hi-rez PCM; and 2) Those who trumpet CD's transparency and claim that higher resolution is inaudible are being guided by mathematical "proof"—not their ears, which for some reason they fail to trust." dCS Vivaldi digital playback system Page 2 | Stereophile.com The question is did you listen to a top of line dCS system playing both CD's and HD audio??? I mean, using your ears and not Fremer's... Truth be told, I never AB'd same tracks, but CD was at a level that I would "Buy" if someone told me I was listening to HD! And no, I am not saying that hi-rez is not better, but saying that well done CD fools you into thinking that you maybe listening for the best stuff. http://www.computeraudiophile.com/members/mikejazz/ funded this campain: http://igg.me/at/geekpulseaudio/x/5216671 Link to comment
Hiro Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 The question is did you listen to a top of line dCS system playing both CD's and HD audio???I mean, using your ears and not Fremer's... If Michael Fremer could have heard the difference, why shouldn't I? Sorry, but even +$100k worth of RBCD playback can't sound as good as DSD/Hi-rez. Link to comment
hardline Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Ted - thank you for this well written informative article-review. Well done! Link to comment
MikeJazz Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 If Michael Fremer could have heard the difference, why shouldn't I? There is one really good, that applies here and I am going to quote: "If you didn't hear, you don't have an opinion"... When you do hear, please come tell... Sorry, but even +$100k worth of RBCD playback can't sound as good as DSD/Hi-rez. I will repeat what I believe.... (1) If I do an A/B comparison using dCS I may listen to the diference of Hi-rez to CD...(like I said I never did..) and (2) if I listen to redbook in a vivaldi (or even the previous top of line, Scarlatti), I am fooled to believe I am listening to Hi-rez...because same basic characteristics (detail, smoothness, "effortless", dynamics, and so on). Of course the accompanying must be up to that challenge... While (1) is still unsure (I cannot Trust Michael Fremers hearing system, as I am sure is different from mine..), (2) I can assure, due to experience... http://www.computeraudiophile.com/members/mikejazz/ funded this campain: http://igg.me/at/geekpulseaudio/x/5216671 Link to comment
Hiro Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 I will repeat what I believe.... (1) If I do an A/B comparison using dCS I may listen to the diference of Hi-rez to CD...(like I said I never did..) Thanks for the info. If I ever get a chance to listen to the Vivaldi system I'll test it properly, i.e. with 16bit cd *and* hi-res/DSD audio. Link to comment
CoolHand Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Hiro, you're a real shit stirrer sometimes, it's cracking me up ;-) I'll have the HUGO here very shortly and I may possibly write a review and comparison of it and the Chord QEX (with high grade linear power supply), unless it is sold prior... As regards the statement that +$100k worth of Redbook playback can't sound as good as DSD/Hi-res, I will contend that from my personal experiences, the final delivery format is NOT the sole arbiter of ultimate fidelity, even if there are some technical possibilities that might suggest such a simplistic result be dictated. If it were so inherently straight forward, I'm sure manufacturers would not be pursuing so many different roads to the same goal !! In the case of the QEX IMHO, PCM playback is in most respects unassailable at any price, and even compared to other formats including native DSD, distinct preferences are not always clearly & consistently arrived at... Amongst others, I have a number of Channel Classics, 2L and Reference Recordings releases in multiple formats, from vinyl (!) up to their source master resolutions of DXD & DSD64/128 Indeed I have closely scrutinised the varying formats in back to back listening sessions with the QEX (with Audirvana+) which supports ALL native formats and it acquits itself remarkably well irrespectively. Furthermore employing upsampling up to 384khz in Audivana+ in conjunction with the flexibility of near countless permutations of Izotope settings allows for very easy configuration of personal sonic preferences to suit selected music on album by album basis if one wishes... all from the comfort of the listening chair with remote control on an iPad for example. We are currently spoilt for superb sounding options with reasonably priced highly engineered devices as such, thus there is really little justification for complaint or argument on the matter.... and on that note I bid all much listening pleasures howsoever thou chooseth :^) Link to comment
Hiro Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Hiro, you're a real shit stirrer sometimes, it's cracking me up ;-) The only purpose of my few additional questions was to get a better understanding of the DSD capability of the Qute HD DAC. As Ted clarified, it's better to downsample DSD files to PCM for playback on the QuteHD, which was a very important piece of information for me, and a reason why I no longer consider getting this DAC. Sorry, if I offended anyone. Link to comment
ted_b Posted January 20, 2014 Author Share Posted January 20, 2014 The only purpose of my few additional questions was to get a better understanding of the DSD capability of the Qute HD DAC. As Ted clarified, it's better to downsample DSD files to PCM for playback on the QuteHD, which was a very important piece of information for me, and a reason why I no longer consider getting this DAC. Sorry, if I offended anyone. Holy cr@p, you did it again! Stop misrepresenting and misquoting me. I never said that downsampling DSD to PCM is better on the QuteHD than native DSD. Native DSD is definitely better than any unnecessary process of conversion to PCM. My only theoretical example of conversion was editing in Pyramix, which in 8.0 or less is a necessary evil (converts edits to DXD). Since the resultant would go back to the final DSD I'd rather hear the DXD, especially on a DAC who can now play that DXD. Who wouldn't. That is NOT at all an example that could be summarized to "downsample all DSD on the QUTEHD". "We're all bozos on this bus"....F.T. My JRIver tutorial videos Actual JRIver tutorial MP4 video links My eleven yr old SACD Ripping Guide for PS3 (needs updating but still works) US Technical Advisor, NativeDSD.com Link to comment
MikeJazz Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Holy cr@p, you did it again! Stop misrepresenting and misquoting me. I never said that downsampling DSD to PCM is better on the QuteHD than native DSD. Native DSD is definitely better than any unnecessary process of conversion to PCM. My only theoretical example of conversion was editing in Pyramix, which in 8.0 or less is a necessary evil (converts edits to DXD). Since the resultant would go back to the final DSD I'd rather hear the DXD, especially on a DAC who can now play that DXD. Who wouldn't. That is NOT at all an example that could be summarized to "downsample all DSD on the QUTEHD". LOL, this is fun! Some folks read to fast.... I don't know how could be expressed in english, but here we say something like "read in diagonal"... http://www.computeraudiophile.com/members/mikejazz/ funded this campain: http://igg.me/at/geekpulseaudio/x/5216671 Link to comment
Hiro Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Holy cr@p, you did it again! Stop misrepresenting and misquoting me. I never said that downsampling DSD to PCM is better on the QuteHD than native DSD. Native DSD is definitely better than any unnecessary process of conversion to PCM. My only theoretical example of conversion was editing in Pyramix, which in 8.0 or less is a necessary evil (converts edits to DXD). Since the resultant would go back to the final DSD I'd rather hear the DXD, especially on a DAC who can now play that DXD. Who wouldn't. That is NOT at all an example that could be summarized to "downsample all DSD on the QUTEHD". Ted, you didn't say anything about converting PCM back to DSD, just that the PCM edits would sound better than DSD on the Qute, "cuz it's a better PCM DAC than a DSD DAC" (not because you would have to convert those PCM edits back to DSD). Link to comment
tubegem Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Great informative review Ted. My only exposure to DSD was via exaSound e20mkIII & 28 at the recent TAVES show. Since you have listened to the exaSound, how would you compare their sonic presentations? Thank you. Link to comment
CoolHand Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Ted.... I had no idea that you could write parallel in an ancient dialect of which only certain readers are able to (mis)comprehend, quite remarkable old chap :-) Anyway, I concur that playing media in their native formats is the best way to listen on the Qute. What becomes more apparent with the 'EX' is that PCM & DSD have two distinctly different sonic characters, with one not necessarily being better or worse than the other, although a person may have a preference, sometimes ! I appreciate the option of having more sonic choices at hand because variety is the spice of life... so ultimately it's a win/win situation ! Link to comment
ted_b Posted January 21, 2014 Author Share Posted January 21, 2014 Ted.... I had no idea that you could write parallel in an ancient dialect of which only certain readers are able to (mis)comprehend, quite remarkable old chap :-) Anyway, I concur that playing media in their native formats is the best way to listen on the Qute. What becomes more apparent with the 'EX' is that PCM & DSD have two distinctly different sonic characters, with one not necessarily being better or worse than the other, although a person may have a preference, sometimes ! I appreciate the option of having more sonic choices at hand because variety is the spice of life... so ultimately it's a win/win situation ! LOL. By the way, why are you selling the QEX? What are you going to next? "We're all bozos on this bus"....F.T. My JRIver tutorial videos Actual JRIver tutorial MP4 video links My eleven yr old SACD Ripping Guide for PS3 (needs updating but still works) US Technical Advisor, NativeDSD.com Link to comment
rennq Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 If Michael Fremer could have heard the difference, why shouldn't I? Sorry, but even +$100k worth of RBCD playback can't sound as good as DSD/Hi-rez. This is not true. The only person who would say something like this is someone employed by Sony to promote the DSD agenda. Hiro is going ballistic again with his misquoting, badgering, and harassment of anyone who dare interfere with the Sony DSD propaganda. The Sony execs must be puttin' on the heat, Hiro. Get out there and promote! Link to comment
Hiro Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 This is not true. The only person who would say something like this is someone employed by Sony to promote the DSD agenda. Yet, there he (Michael Fremer) said it, hi-res excelled over CD on the +$100k dCS system. Does that mean Sony and HDtracks must be paying him to promote hi-res, rennq? Link to comment
Hiro Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Hiro is going ballistic again with his misquoting, badgering, and harassment Where have I misquoted, or badgered or harassed anyone? Link to comment
weirdo12 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Where have I misquoted, or badgered or harassed anyone? Like it or not, that is how your comments read (in this thread anyway). Perhaps misunderstood is more correct than misquoted. Link to comment
Hiro Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Like it or not, that is how your comments read (in this thread anyway). Perhaps misunderstood is more correct than misquoted. Like it or not, I just pointed out that Norah Jones' recordings Ted used for his PCM vs DSD comparison, aren't DSD recordings. Don't shoot the messenger. Link to comment
John769 Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Hi TedB. Does the Chord driver work well with JPLAY? Link to comment
ted_b Posted February 1, 2014 Author Share Posted February 1, 2014 Yes, it works fine. I will try the new driver once the EX arrives (I bought one ). "We're all bozos on this bus"....F.T. My JRIver tutorial videos Actual JRIver tutorial MP4 video links My eleven yr old SACD Ripping Guide for PS3 (needs updating but still works) US Technical Advisor, NativeDSD.com Link to comment
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