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coxhaus

Hard Drives Make a Difference in Sound

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True that!

It is purely bad manners, as well as poor methodology, to come into a thread like this and say something like that.

 

Paul


Forrest:

Win10 i9 9900KS/GTX1060 HQPlayer4>Win10 NAA

DSD>Pavel's DSC2.6>Bent Audio TAP>

Parasound JC1>"Naked" Quad ESL63/Tannoy PS350B subs<100Hz

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Evilapa...........these are arguements that have gone back and forth here for years. Believe me when I say that for the people you're trying to rationalize with......it's not going to happen anytime soon. Just let it go and enjoy CA for what it is. Personally, I love science fiction.

 

Yes, it seems that much is clear.

I just think it's a shame because I believe these ideas are harmful to the hobby and might suppress actual improvements to audio quality. Instead of technical achievements, companies like Acoustic Revive develop snake oil like pure silk absorbers and cable lifters.

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Oh, so you are another evangelist. Just what this sight needs is another person "saving" audio. Can't others just leave the fools alone to themselves? I do have to thank you however, for admitting that you are looking to sway opinion. IMO it is important to understand that information is not being offered as a data point, but to facilitate a change in other person's viewpoint. If you truly want to see improvements, let them work on that and you can spend your time pursuing something that you think matters. In the end, what works and what doesn't will show itself.

Yes, it seems that much is clear.

I just think it's a shame because I believe these ideas are harmful to the hobby and might suppress actual improvements to audio quality. Instead of technical achievements, companies like Acoustic Revive develop snake oil like pure silk absorbers and cable lifters.


Forrest:

Win10 i9 9900KS/GTX1060 HQPlayer4>Win10 NAA

DSD>Pavel's DSC2.6>Bent Audio TAP>

Parasound JC1>"Naked" Quad ESL63/Tannoy PS350B subs<100Hz

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coxhaus

What type of files are you playing ? For example,copying a .wav file to another location normally results in a small but noticeable degradation.

 

Alex

 

 

 

/

 

What!?

I dont think so....

lmao

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Not sure I would suggest that the parties which promote "deny everything without thinking it through and never test anything for themselves" are rational in the least, but every community needs some drama queens... :)

 

More seriously- it would not hurt to emulate the practicing scientists on the forum. Except when joking, I do not think any of them ever denigrate other people's ideas- even when they think those ideas are unlikely. It is purely bad manners, as well as poor methodology, to come into a thread like this and say something like that.

 

Paul

 

replying in equal tone as you did to Evilapa.......and in my opinion, which last time i checked, was just as valid as yours.

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replying in equal tone as you did to Evilapa.......and in my opinion, which last time i checked, was just as valid as yours.

 

 

That at would have to be, a matter of opinion! :)


Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC.

Robert A. Heinlein

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After getting my new black MAC PRO with 1TB PCIE Flash Storage. I had to lower the volume on my DAC because how much louder it was compared to my other mac pro with a regular SSD.


Musician Setup

 

Black Mac Pro 2014 ->Lynx Hilo Thunderbolt ->Synergistic Research Thunderbolt Cable --> Harmonic Tech Magic Link 2 XLR --> Focal Twin BE 6's --> 2 Silent Source The Music Reference Power Cords --> LAT International Signature Power Cords --> Balanced Power Tech AC power Cord with Furutech Connects ->>Balanced Power AC Pure Power Center-->Dedicated AC line with PS Audio Soloist Limited Edition.

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After getting my new black MAC PRO with 1TB PCIE Flash Storage. I had to lower the volume on my DAC because how much louder it was compared to my other mac pro with a regular SSD.

 

For that to happen you must have different settings in both computers. Perceived differences would be more along the lines of those described by Alex C in various threads, such as transparency, soundstage etc. Some female voices may appear to sound a smidgin louder, but that may come down to less masking of the low level harmonics of their voices by system noise etc. getting into the DAC via USB cables etc.


How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

 

PROFILE UPDATED 26-12-2019

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Nope same default settings.


Musician Setup

 

Black Mac Pro 2014 ->Lynx Hilo Thunderbolt ->Synergistic Research Thunderbolt Cable --> Harmonic Tech Magic Link 2 XLR --> Focal Twin BE 6's --> 2 Silent Source The Music Reference Power Cords --> LAT International Signature Power Cords --> Balanced Power Tech AC power Cord with Furutech Connects ->>Balanced Power AC Pure Power Center-->Dedicated AC line with PS Audio Soloist Limited Edition.

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Nope same default settings.

 

How many dB did you lower the volume in your DAC ?

If you have the same binary data going into the DAC, then it isn't possible to have anything more than subtle differences as described by Alex C. elsewhere. With improvements in Jitter etc. it is more common to increase the volume, as the sound is less fatiguing. Conversely, you may be able to listen at slightly reduced levels and still hear things you may not have noticed previously.


How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

 

PROFILE UPDATED 26-12-2019

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2 Decibels.


Musician Setup

 

Black Mac Pro 2014 ->Lynx Hilo Thunderbolt ->Synergistic Research Thunderbolt Cable --> Harmonic Tech Magic Link 2 XLR --> Focal Twin BE 6's --> 2 Silent Source The Music Reference Power Cords --> LAT International Signature Power Cords --> Balanced Power Tech AC power Cord with Furutech Connects ->>Balanced Power AC Pure Power Center-->Dedicated AC line with PS Audio Soloist Limited Edition.

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2 Decibels.

 

BTW, A higher level of Jitter can make a music file appear to sound a little louder, with a louder sounding but less pinpoint central image and a less wide soundstage.. 2dB is a very minor change and is likely to be due to those other factors mentioned.

The file with the lower level of Jitter should have an improved sound stage with suitable recordings, and you should also be able to listen to it at a higher level without fatigue than the same music file with higher Jitter.


How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

 

PROFILE UPDATED 26-12-2019

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BTW, A higher level of Jitter can make a music file appear to sound a little louder, with a louder sounding but less pinpoint central image and a less wide soundstage.. 2dB is a very minor change and is likely to be due to those other factors mentioned.

The file with the lower level of Jitter should have an improved sound stage with suitable recordings, and you should also be able to listen to it at a higher level without fatigue than the same music file with higher Jitter.

 

 

Assuming you mean the jitter from each computer (files do not have jitter) I know that jitter can make playing music loudly uncomfortable, but not physically louder. I wonder if this difference was measured with a meter or fnt is only an apparent difference?

 

If a real difference in volume, I would check if the volume control is engaged on the old machine and not on the new, or if the new machine has the volume all the way up, etc. It could also be volume limiting of some kind in the software. Something along those lines.

 

If it is only an apparent loudness difference, then something else in the chain is being emphasized. Perhaps the new machine has less jitter and now something in the chain that was equalizing the older machine is now doing its job too well.


Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC.

Robert A. Heinlein

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It could also be that the new machine actually has higher jitter, which is why I suggested trying both machines at both higher and lower listening levels. The lower jitter machine is also likely to sound a little more dynamic with improved low end .

I am far from being the only one reporting things like this. Barrows has also written some informative posts about the effects of "Jitter."


How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

 

PROFILE UPDATED 26-12-2019

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It could also be that the new machine actually has higher jitter, which is why I suggested trying both machines at both higher and lower listening levels. The lower jitter machine is also likely to sound a little more dynamic with improved low end .

I am far from being the only one reporting things like this. Barrows has also written some informative posts about the effects of "Jitter."

 

That's unlikely to be the case, but we all are aware of your antipathy towards anything Apple.

 

Do you have any references at all to people noting a volume increase due to jitter? I cannot remember anyone here saying that, but it is quite possible I simply do not remember it.

 

As I said, I am aware that jitter can make listening at a particular volume uncomfortable, leading to turning it down.

 

I do not know of any reports of jitter destroying dynamic range or increasing the actual volume of a signal. If you do, please point me to them.


Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC.

Robert A. Heinlein

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Reducing jitter does seem to increase perceived PRaT/dynamic shading.

I do not know of any reports of jitter destroying dynamic range or increasing the actual volume of a signal. If you do, please point me to them.

Forrest:

Win10 i9 9900KS/GTX1060 HQPlayer4>Win10 NAA

DSD>Pavel's DSC2.6>Bent Audio TAP>

Parasound JC1>"Naked" Quad ESL63/Tannoy PS350B subs<100Hz

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That's unlikely to be the case, but we all are aware of your antipathy towards anything Apple.

 

As I am also well aware of all the BS from you about the claimed superiority of a standard Mac Mini for audio over other computers.

Alex C has already demonstrated that they are capable of being markedly improved for audio.

I wasn't even taking into account the type of computer in use here, although you chose to read it that way.

 

'Bye !


How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

 

PROFILE UPDATED 26-12-2019

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4est

 

Please check your emails.

 

Regards

Alex


How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

 

PROFILE UPDATED 26-12-2019

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All of which neither answers the questions nor denies anything.

 

To phrase it your way, where are you coming by your BS idea that jitter physically increases volume? Especially jitter from a hard drive? 2db of increase actually.

 

I'll be glad to recant and say I was wrong, if it were to turn out that I am.

 

 

As I am also well aware of all the BS from you about the claimed superiority of a standard Mac Mini for audio over other computers.

Alex C has already demonstrated that they are capable of being markedly improved for audio.

I wasn't even taking into account the type of computer in use here, although you chose to read it that way.

 

'Bye !


Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC.

Robert A. Heinlein

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All of which neither answers the questions nor denies anything.

 

As you have been nothing but demanding and sarcastic recently, even in subjective threads with answers not directed to you, I will not be replying to you. Take it whichever way you like.


How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

 

PROFILE UPDATED 26-12-2019

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In case others have misread what I said in my reply 262, I have accentuated a key word.

 

A higher level of Jitter can make a music file appear to sound a little louder

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

 

PROFILE UPDATED 26-12-2019

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In case others have misread what I said in my reply 262, I have accentuated a key word.

 

Which jitter could cause amplitude variations?

 

- Period Jitter ? So the timing wanders off spec. The timing would have to be so bad as to cause reflections in say a transmission line. In a computer - no transmission lines, and the music would be unlistenable.

 

- Determinisitic jitter would be more the culprit, since noise/EMC is the great instigator of this type. However this type of jitter doesn't increase in amplitude, tends to keep this under control.

 

Juan's problem is in the new Mac, since all other equipment is the same. Unless the OS is performing some trickery that is underhanded compared with the MacPro of old and new. OR there is more noise than signal, the music would reveal this in quieter passages.

 

The diagnosis requires a bit more thought, rather than plucking out concepts from hearsay that aggravate people.


AS Profile Equipment List        Say NO to MQA

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The diagnosis requires a bit more thought, rather than plucking out concepts from hearsay that aggravate people.

You appear to be easily aggravated these days. I don't snipe each time you get on your hobbyhorse and recommend extensive mains supply modifications.


How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

 

PROFILE UPDATED 26-12-2019

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You appear to be easily aggravated these days. I don't snipe each time you get on your hobbyhorse and recommend extensive mains supply modifications.

 

Let's just say if there's a cause for a thread becoming an all out bitch fight, sandyk is usually involved. Quite frankly am rather tired of the fighting on these threads, just venting my aggravation towards you in a VERY controlled manner. Come to think of it, why am I even bothering to write or read here, when arguments stir around the vortex of a cesspool with no end in sight.

 

This was an interesting place, one time.

 

Goodbye CA.


AS Profile Equipment List        Say NO to MQA

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You appear to be easily aggravated these days. I don't snipe each time you get on your hobbyhorse and recommend extensive mains supply modifications.

 

Wow. You've gotten so outta control now that even your subjective bretheren are going to ground.

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