Jump to content
IGNORED

ATTENTION Current Mac mini/A+ users: Boot Mavericks from an SD card, load a RAMdisk, dismount your internal SATA drives, and pour a drink for the musicians walking out of your speakers!


Recommended Posts

All this leaves us still wondering why a memory player like A+ would be so sensitive to where the data is drawn from. Based on all that I have tried, I think it is reasonable to assume that it is not Audirvana being effected, rather it is the computer's generation of the outbound USB signal (to the DAC) which is being affected by processes and minuscule "interference" while do so. That would certainly explain why by far the worst sounding of all the data storage/transfer methods--at least when one is using a USB DAC--is the USB.

 

Regards,

ALEX

 

Another thought I had about why playing files from RAMdisk might sound better (I haven't tried using a RAMdisk with A+ yet myself, but have done so with XXHE on Windows) is that the data is being "double buffered" in RAM (first in the RAMdisk, then in memory accessed by A+). It's that much further removed from interaction with disk - even SSD - I/O.

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

Link to comment
At least on Windows there are utilities that will write the RAMdisk stuff to an image file before computer shutdown and automatically write it back to RAMdisk on startup, so the RAMdisk appears to be persistent. I had done a little research and think I found something similar for OS X, though unlike the Win utilities it did not have a GUI. Will see if I remember correctly and can dig it up again.

 

Here are a couple of pages with ways to create persistent RAMdisks in OS X:

 

Setting up a Persistent Ramdisk on MacOS X 10.6 | PureGin.org

 

https://github.com/ideamonk/Rambola

 

Will probably want to modify these to import some stuff from souptin's helpful script in this thread, and check everything to make sure it works with Mavericks.

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

Link to comment
Hi Roch. As you'll see when you install the Thunderbolt adapter/base, the HDD is SATA, and the USB 3.0 interface is simply the adapter/base it was sold with. So you just pop off the SATA -> USB adapter, and pop on the SATA -> Thunderbolt adapter.

 

That's good to know Jud. So it would seem that Seagate is one of the few single-drive externals that can be configured to have just Thunderbolt. Most all the others I have seen are TB and USB. It is too bad that the model is not available: a) with the TB adapter as standard ($150 for just the adapter is a bit steep); b) as an empty enclosure for me to install one of the many SATA mechanisms I already have. I prefer to know which model drive is inside, since I like to pick single or dual-platter units. Have you opened yours up? Can you report exact raw drive model (and size)?

 

Also, is the Seagate enclosure fan-less? A lot of plastic case units are not, whereas aluminum singles are as they use the case for heat dissipation.

 

If anyone here knows of other Thunderbolt-only, single-drive, fan-less externals (with or without drive preinstalled), please report them.

 

Thanks,

ALEX

Link to comment
Hi Superdad,

 

1. The cable that comes with the Macmini plugs into the SOTM SATA filter.

 

You can buy the filter from sonore.us

 

2. The 22 pin extension cable goes from the SOTM SATA filter to the SSD.

 

There is an expensive heavily shielded SATA cable option available (paul professional audio studio), but I went with a cheap €5 which can be found on e.g. Amazon. This standard pink SATA cable portion is shielded, but I added some foil to the power side as a stop gap. But I am looking at EMI/RFI shielding from lessemf.com.

 

This is what I use:

 

NSIcable 22-pin (7+15) SATA Male to Female DATA and Power Combo Extension Cable - Slimline SATA Extension Cable M/F - 1Ft (33cm)

 

…..

In terms of enclosures, some nutty but cheap stuff: distance, ERS cloth, aluminium alloy cookie sheets and bread pans (not all work in reducing EMI, so meter device and trial and error )

 

Tranz: I meant to thank you for posting the pictures and for providing such detailed information on your interesting modification. I applaud your brave efforts.

 

While I don't mind modifying a Mac mini for outboard power supply or other things, I will have to pass on going the route you did with the SATA since I don't like the idea of having those cables hanging about from an open machine. Perhaps if I someday build a machine with a custom enclosure… But I think there are better ways to make a music "rendering" computer based on all that has been learned, and I'll likely focus efforts there.

 

Regards,

AJC

 

P.S. Tranz: Does the WD My Book Thunderbolt Duo 4TB you use have a fan?

Link to comment

Thanks Superdad for your answer.

Being audiophile since my childhood I am considering all path which could improve my system, and as computer software engineer I have a tendency to think in term of yes/no or 0-1 for digital signal. In other world I trust in a end to end digital flow when it is not manage in an asynchronous way. The problem and probably the main room for improvement being the DA/AD conversion and jitter.

 

I am preparing a test with my MacMini, and would also like to try with an external PSU but this requires hardware change and it is bit expensive if in the end I cannot hear the difference.

 

I also use the opportunity to thanks all contributors to this forum as it is a gold mine for Computer Audio and related topics.

Cheers

Frank

 

Frank:

When I was using an older Mac mini (2009 with external brick), I used it with an inexpensive 13.8V/10A regulated linear supply (even though the Apple supply was 18.5V it ran fine with the lower voltage). The difference was VERY significant in my system. Especially in the bass! More bass detail and weight. Other areas were improved as well, but it was not a very good PS, so I am sure that I was not realizing the benefits that a truly low-noise supply would allow.

 

So based on that (and others' reports), I think an external linear PS for the current generation of Mac minis is likely to be one of the biggest single improvements you can make to the machine. You do not have to spend a lot on an external supply to at least get an idea of what it might do for your system. Once you do the modification to the mini itself, you can change external PS units in the future.

 

Still, I understand your desire to first improve other parts of your system. I just wanted to make you feel confident that an external linear supply will make a very nice difference when the rest of your system (and your wallet) are ready.

 

Best,

--Alex

Link to comment
Here are a couple of pages with ways to create persistent RAMdisks in OS X:

 

Setting up a Persistent Ramdisk on MacOS X 10.6 | PureGin.org

 

https://github.com/ideamonk/Rambola

 

Will probably want to modify these to import some stuff from souptin's helpful script in this thread, and check everything to make sure it works with Mavericks.

 

Thanks for those Jud. I found the Rambola one before, but the PureGin guy's approach is new to me. Let us know if you find a GUI version for all this.

 

I am going to do another test soon--between my 2010 Core 2 Duo (current music server), and the 2013 i7 mini I presently use on my desk (and to control the headless music machine). I will boot the i7 from the 32GB Mavericks SD card (which I how I now run the music mini) and see how it does now. Maybe faster is better. Maybe not. No bias or expectation going into it!

Link to comment
Thanks for those Jud. I found the Rambola one before, but the PureGin guy's approach is new to me. Let us know if you find a GUI version for all this.

 

 

Nope, someone will have to make a GUI if one is wanted.

 

After finding these, figured out that I really don't need persistent RAMdisks, at least for my own setup. souptin's script works great; set it up to run at login. I modified it to just create one 1GB RAMdisk and copy A+ there: copying music files to a RAMdisk each time I want to play them feels too inconvenient. To offset the RAM used for the disk, I set A+ preferences to use 1GB less memory into which to load tracks.

 

Definitely prefer A+ playing from RAMdisk by quite a bit.

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

Link to comment
Hi Roch. As you'll see when you install the Thunderbolt adapter/base, the HDD is SATA, and the USB 3.0 interface is simply the adapter/base it was sold with. So you just pop off the SATA -> USB adapter, and pop on the SATA -> Thunderbolt adapter.

 

Hi Jud, Yes I already has the HD & TB adapter base.

 

What I realized is Thunderbolt is the Apple response to SATA, but is SATA based, at least from HD. It would be simpler to give us an SATA connector!

 

Here is an interesting link to 'speed' regarding interfaces (where SATA III is the champ):

 

http://tinyiron.net/direct-sata3-vs-thunderbolt-vs-usb3-vs-usb2-how-do-they-stack-up/

 

Even if Alex C. don't believe speed matters, please take a look of the following three (from my Mac mini late 2012):

 

 

SD Card Reader.jpg

 

Where you can read: "Link Speed 2.5 GT/s" This is a very important 'speed', almost matching the processor speed.

 

Then from the Lexar Pro. SDXC Card I bought, the reading speed: 60MB/s could be (or is) higher than the reading and transfer speed from a spinning HD with a Firewire 800 connection, and double the rate of SSD with an USB 2.0 connection.

 

This is not to proof nothing against Alex C. great discovering regarding SQ improvement by using an SDXC card, but trying to help in the big WHY.

 

Roch

Link to comment

After finding these, figured out that I really don't need persistent RAMdisks, at least for my own setup. souptin's script works great; set it up to run at login. I modified it to just create one 1GB RAMdisk and copy A+ there: copying music files to a RAMdisk each time I want to play them feels too inconvenient. To offset the RAM used for the disk, I set A+ preferences to use 1GB less memory into which to load tracks.

 

Definitely prefer A+ playing from RAMdisk by quite a bit.

 

That's cool Jud. I was going to say that we are opposite in that I prefer the sound of the music files played from RAM disk but not A+ launched from RAM disk. Then I realized that our set ups are different:

 

** I have Mavericks booting from the SD card and run A+ from there, with the internal SATA unmounted; Tracks on RAM disk.

 

** I think you run the OS from your MBP's SSD (internal SATA), play A+ from a RAM disk, and store the music on the SD card.

 

**Perhaps even more important is the fact that THE SD CARD READER IN YOUR VINTAGE MBP IS ON THE USB BUS, whereas mine is the SDXC reader (capable of higher speeds which I have yet to prove to myself as relevant) on its own bus on a chip with the Ethernet and PCIe (where are my PCIe slots?!).

 

I have revisited A+ on RAM disk a couple of times, but still find it a tad harsh. And I am pretty sure I tried it as well with the tracks on the SD and A+ on RAM disk (in addition to running both from RD). I did not give A+ much space on the RD if that makes a difference. It is getting silly, I know.

 

I will for certain revisit all this (it's very quick) when I have my mini running on a linear PS. But as mentioned earlier, I have to first make a final decision as to which machine I am going to use and pull the SMPS out of.

Link to comment

What I realized is Thunderbolt is the Apple response to SATA, but is SATA based, at least from HD. It would be simpler to give us an SATA connector!

 

Wouldn't that be nice! (Did you see what Tranz did to get a SATA line out of his machine? No thanks.)

 

Even if Alex C. don't believe speed matters, please take a look of the following three (from my Mac mini late 2012):

 

Where you can read: "Link Speed 2.5 GT/s" This is a very important 'speed', almost matching the processor speed.

 

Then from the Lexar Pro. SDXC Card I bought, the reading speed: 60MB/s could be (or is) higher than the reading and transfer speed from a spinning HD with a Firewire 800 connection, and double the rate of SSD with an USB 2.0 connection.

 

This is not to proof nothing against Alex C. great discovering regarding SQ improvement by using an SDXC card, but trying to help in the big WHY.

 

Well sure, my 2010 mini is the same.

 

I SHOULD REMIND EVERYONE HERE THAT MANY APPLE LAPTOPS (and some iMacs) WITH SD CARD SLOTS ARE ON THE USB BUS, NOT THEIR OWN BUS. NOT ONLY WILL MAX SPEED BE SLOWER (don't bother buying fast SD cards for it), THE SOUND BOOTING OR PLAYING FROM THE SD WITH THOSE MACS WILL LIKELY NOT SHOW THE SAME DIFFERENCES. Jud does hear an improvement with his, despite sharing the USB bus with the DAC, so that's good. ALL MAC MINIs WITH SD CARD SLOTS USE THE DEDICATED CHIP/BUS (hence they are spec'd as SDXC slots).

 

Now back to my reply to Roch---

 

GT/s is giga-transactions per second. It is the raw bps. So 2.5 GT/s = 2,500,000,000 bits/second = 312,500,000 Bytes/sec, thus 298.02 MB/s; Subtract about 20% for encoding the data and we get down to about 238 MB/s in both directions. That's the speed for the crazy-fast (and probably crazy expensive) new SD cards due to start shipping in Japan from Toshiba next month.

 

I just checked my FW800 drive again. I get 85MB/sec. And the cheap Class 10 rated Transcend 32MB SDHC card I boot my music mini from I get 22MB/sec read average, 12MB/sec. write average.

 

For whatever any of this is worth. Certainly good to think about. The fellow from LessLoss did write to say that they prefer the sound of the 95MB/sec SD cards (Toshiba has been making those, and some sellers on Amazon are importing them to the US:

Amazon.com: Toshiba 32GB 32G SD SDHC EXCERIA Type 2 Class 10 Memory Card R:95MB/s W:90MB/...: Computers & Accessories

 

I do want to listen to a Thunderbolt interfaced drive. And I want to bump my RAM to 16GB for a bigger RAM disk. But I want my linear power supply even more than any of that. Yet the holidays are coming so I'll focus on family, the kids, and charity.

Link to comment

P.S. Tranz: Does the WD My Book Thunderbolt Duo 4TB you use have a fan?

 

Hi Superdad,

 

No fan, and you can replace the included green WD drives if you like. I tried a few, and this was at the time not only the cheapest but quietest TBolt solution. Much quieter than the NAS. Now for me any spinner HD noise drives me batty, so the lot is in a closet. Even the Macfan is powered externally at lower voltage, but is noisy enough to be put in the closet.

 

As you can tell my MacMini is really just the mobo left in the aluminium enclosure. The pictures look more scary than it really is though. It really is quite easy.

 

The Apple store had the WD TBolt Duo, so you can try, and return it if it does not help.

 

Cheers.

Link to comment

Alex, thanks for the feedback and tip re Toshiba card, I now have one on the way given it is at a good price compared to others at that speed I saw advertised.

 

At 240MB/s the newer Toshiba cards will be closing in on the approx max operating speed you calculated.

best regards, david

Link to comment
tranz,

Have you tested the SD boot card config? Since you use SSD, even external, we could know if the sound differences comes from vibration (of HDD in Superdad case) or is the SATA that is introducing noise in the system. Which version of MacMini is yours?

Gustavo

Hi Gustavo,

 

Not yet, as I just stumbled on the thread. It has intrigued me though and when I have a bit of time I will try it.

 

The Mac is the latest 2012 version that normally has the switching PSU inside the case.

 

Cheers

Link to comment

To those you out there planning to create a boot volume on an SD card, I thought I would share the below from a PM exchange with Peter. To sum up: Better and quicker to clone your already tweaked OS to the SD card than to do a clean OS X install to it.

 

 

 

Hi Alex,

 

I installed a fresh install of ML on the SD card. It seemed to take forever - about 3 hours.

 

Now everything is very slow when booting up from the SD card. Is this normal or is there something wrong? I'm using a Sony 32G Sd card.

 

Peter:

 

A number of thoughts come to mind. First, I suggest Mavericks because by default it seems to run fewer processes in the background and thus will require less drive access while idling.

 

Second, and I really think this is key: You need to have a "slimmed and optimized" OS on the SD card. Just something like Spotlight indexing--which I am sure your newly installed ML on SD is trying to do--will bring things to a crawl on something slow like an SD card or a USB2.0 boot drive.

 

I was not completely thinking about it when I gave your my recommendations before, but the above is a strong reason why I think one should do a CCC of an already trimmed "music server OS," rather than doing an OS install directly to the SD card.

 

Of course you can now boot the ML SD card you made and do all the steps to deactivate the extra processes--especially things like Spotlight indexing--which are slowing it down.

 

Just remember that my tests were done with Mavericks--which you can clearly see in Activity Monitor is more efficient and "quieter" as far as background processing and disk access.

 

Good luck,

 

ALEX

Link to comment

"I SHOULD REMIND EVERYONE HERE THAT MANY APPLE LAPTOPS (and some iMacs) WITH SD CARD SLOTS ARE ON THE USB BUS, NOT THEIR OWN BUS. NOT ONLY WILL MAX SPEED BE SLOWER (don't bother buying fast SD cards for it), THE SOUND BOOTING OR PLAYING FROM THE SD WITH THOSE MACS WILL LIKELY NOT SHOW THE SAME DIFFERENCES. Jud does hear an improvement with his, despite sharing the USB bus with the DAC, so that's good. ALL MAC MINIs WITH SD CARD SLOTS USE THE DEDICATED CHIP/BUS (hence they are spec'd as SDXC slots)."

 

 

1) The new haswell 2013 macbook pro has flash direct to pci-e - that should be as good as SD Card Playback?

 

2) Apple website says that newer MBP have the card reader attached to pci-e (MBA dont - USB3 Bus). Could anyone confirm that a 2012 non retina MBP has a card reader direct attached to PCI-e?

 

3) A Mytek 192 via firewire to thunderbolt (=PCI-e) must be the best connection then?

AIFF - LINN Klimax DS/1 Renew - Grimm TPA XLR - Neumann KH120AW Studio Monitors

Link to comment

 

1) The new haswell 2013 macbook pro has flash direct to pci-e - that should be as good as SD Card Playback?

 

2) Apple website says that newer MBP have the card reader attached to pci-e (MBA dont - USB3 Bus). Could anyone confirm that a 2012 non retina MBP has a card reader direct attached to PCI-e?

 

3) A Mytek 192 via firewire to thunderbolt (=PCI-e) must be the best connection then?

 

As far as I can tell (from Mac Specs, Prices, Answers and Comparison @ EveryMac.com, Est. 1996), all MacBook Pros beginning with early 2011 models have what is referred to as an SDXC card reader slot, and based on my prior examination of motherboard photos and chipset call-outs (on iFixit: The free repair manual tear downs), those will all be on a bus other than USB. Older units just say they have an SD card slot, and those are the ones on the USB bus.

I don't really like to refer to the newer bus as PCIe, because the chip Apple uses for the SD card (a Broadcom typically) also handles ethernet and can do PCIe--but Apple does no longer offers PCI Express slots. So why call it that?

 

It might be a little murkier with MacBook Airs: Even though Airs as far back as 2010 Core 2 Duos are listed as having SDXC card slots, most MBAs don't have an ethernet port, so I don't really know what bus Apple put the SDXC on.

 

Easiest way to tell is always by going to the USB tab in System Report (don't just look at the Card Reader tab, that won't tell you if it is or is not on the USB bus).

 

I can't comment on your third question as it would seem you would need a external Thunderbolt hub to bridge a Firewire DAC to connect to the computer via the Thunderbolt port--and then someone other bridging chips (and power supply?) are introduced.

Am I missing something there?

Link to comment

Superbad... Just for your reference especially in reference to "but Apple does no longer offers PCI Express slots" I assume you realise that thunderbolt is essentially PCIe modified to allow it to run externally and parallel with display port?

Eloise

---

...in my opinion / experience...

While I agree "Everything may matter" working out what actually affects the sound is a trickier thing.

And I agree "Trust your ears" but equally don't allow them to fool you - trust them with a bit of skepticism.

keep your mind open... But mind your brain doesn't fall out.

Link to comment

 

3) A Mytek 192 via firewire to thunderbolt (=PCI-e) must be the best connection then?

 

Firewire is 'Firewire' doesn't matter when you take it (in a Mac).

 

Apple released a Thunderbolt to Firewire adapter because some new Mac doesn't has a Firewire port. Like in my wife iMac.

 

Also a Thunderbolt to Gigabit Ethernet adapter.

 

There is not something like 'magic' from Thunderbolt.

 

From Wikipedia: "Thunderbolt combines PCI Express (PCIe) and DisplayPort (DP) into one serial signal alongside a DC connection".

 

Roch

Link to comment
Superbad... Just for your reference especially in reference to "but Apple does no longer offers PCI Express slots" I assume you realise that thunderbolt is essentially PCIe modified to allow it to run externally and parallel with display port?

 

Yes, I do know that. But:

a) The Thunderbolt controller in Mac minis is a separate chip and bus than the one that handles the SDXC slot and the ethernet port, and the poster seemed to be making an assumption regarding TB and SD cards and PCIe.

 

b) The Broadcom chip handling the SDXC and ethernet ports happens to offer to function as a PCIe host, but that is not how Apple uses it. Check the block diagram and you see what I mean: http://www.broadcom.com/collateral/pb/57765-PB00-R.pdf

 

c) And in my Mac mini world (I know he was talking about MBPs), the 2012 units still use a separate chip for the Firewire controller (http://www.lsi.com/downloads/Public/1394%20Products/FW643E/LSI-PB_2pg_FW643E_fn.pdf), so until I'll reserve my personal judgment until I can test FW versus Thunderbolt.

 

As many have said, what would be really nice would be to either have an eSATA port, or for the drive makers to offer raw drives (or SSDs) that are natively Thunderbolt/PCIe.

Link to comment

Hi Gang:

 

While I should probably make this a new thread, everyone is already here and I get tired of keeping up with overlapping topics.

 

Most of you know that I use as my dedicated music server a 2010 2.4GHz Core 2 Duo Mac mini with 8GB of RAM booted from a 32GB SDHC card (with a slimmed and optimized Mavericks install and A+ 1.5.10 upsampling)--connected to a custom Hovland/Swenson/WaveIO async-USB NOS PCM1704K DAC.

 

While RAM disk is the best sounding place for me to play back music files from, it is not terribly convenient, given that I have almost a terabyte of CDs and high-res downloads in my library, with a lot more waiting to be ripped (maybe when I retire in 15-20 years I'll have time to start transferring a few of my 4000+ LPs!).

 

You saw my drive interface report and my conclusion that for my present machine, Firewire 400 is the best sounding external interface I have (and units with the fewest port options sound best). But I have not been able to audition Thunderbolt: a) because my 2010 mini does not offer that port; b) I do not yet have a SATA>Thunderbolt external drive.

 

But I do have a 2012 2.3GHz i7 Mac mini as my desktop computer, and since my next big upgrade is ripping out the SMPS from my music server to start using a linear supply, I have an urgency to decide what machine to use for the long run.

 

Which brings me to today's session:

 

Alternately booting each machine using the same tweaked Mavericks SD card, dismounting the internal SATA drive, creating a 1GB RAM disk, copying my test tracks from the SD to the RAM disk, and listening. (No drive volumes were connected or mounted other than the SD and the RAM disk.)

 

I was hoping that I would like the newer machine, since having Thunderbolt, it would leave another possible storage avenue open for me. For this sort of test, with extra time between for machine shifting and rebooting (I also had to boot the non-playing unit to control my always-headless music CPU), I took extra time to listen to key passages of my 5 main test tracks over and over in different order before switching. And I did A/B/A/B. (What a hassle!)

 

FIRST RESULTS:

------------------

2012 mini--Very disappointing. Everything was there, including all the benefits of SD card, RAM disk, etc. Details, bass, cymbals, piano--all mostly okay. But I found it entirely uncompelling. Music sounded a bit flat and lifeless. On the slow but very moving Bill Evans "Peace Piece," the slowness induced boredom instead of anticipation. All this in complete contrast to the engagement I feel with the 2010 mini.

 

I am sure the above short description sounds crazy. After just A/B (2010/2012) I thought maybe it was just me being tired of the tracks. But going back to the 2010--and then back to the 2012--the difference was striking. No way could I live with the 2012.

 

While sitting and pondering all this, I remembered that someone (I think it was Roch) had posted a screen shot of their USB bus tree in System Report, and it showed their DAC under a "hub" a layer or two down. At the time I deduced (from my own system) that only USB 3.0 and Thunderbolt equipped Macs were like that (probably more a consequence of having USB 3.0 than because of TB--but both came along at the same time).

 

So I go into AboutThisMac>SystemReport>USB, and sure enough I see the following:

Screen Shot 2013-11-21 at 1.29.15 PM.png

 

Okay. That might account for something. Then I remember some folks saying that choice of USB port has an effect. (Only on my 2010 mini it does not; and no matter what port I use with my 2010 it always is alone on its own branch of the bus--and no extra "hub layer" shows.) But now this is a 2012 machine, so:

I try another USB port, and here is what shows:

Screen Shot 2013-11-21 at 1.27.56 PM.png

 

Well that looks better--let's hear how it sounds.

 

SECOND RESULTS:

---------------------

Whoa!! Unbelievable. Not only does this USB socket change in the 2012 sound MUCH better than the other port (first pic, buried under the virtual "hub"), the "air" in the recordings and the engagement with the music seemed better than I remembered even with the 2010. So back to the 2010 to check. Yup, not my imagination, the 2012--with the DAC plugged into a correct port--jumped past my 2010. Not by a lot.

 

To summarize with some sort of random rough numbers (and no these have no relation to any other scale of improvements; I just want to show the 3-way distance of what I heard):

If the 2010 I had been using was "100"

the 2012 in the wrong port was "80";

and the 2012 with the right port was "110"

 

--------------------

 

Some footnotes:

a) The 2012 I was testing has 16GB of RAM versus 8GB in the 2010. Still the same SD card and the same 1GB RAM disk.

 

b) Two out of the 4 USB ports are the "good" ports. They are interleaved; every other one is good. I think it is starting with the one at the far edge of the machine, furthest from the power cord. But do check in System Report.

 

c) The 2011 might or might not sound as good as the 2012. I had a 2011 i5 and it lost in a 3-way versus a 2009 and the 2010, but that was back at A+ 1.4.3, Mountain Lion, and before SD card and RAM disk. But after my test today I was pouring over iFixIt photos and chip complement listings for 2010, '11, '12, and there are some thinks that might be making the 2012 special. Of course I don't know if the i7 versus i5 has any bearing. Would a 2012 i5 do as well as my i7 did?

 

I wish I could borrow back my 2011 (traded to my step-dad so I could upgrade my work machine to the i7) to test. A used 2011 (or a 2012 i5) would be a lot cheaper than another 2012 i7 (and no, I can't swap back to working on the 2010 Core 2 Duo--too slow for my work!).

I think I'll buy a Thunderbolt drive and see how that sounds versus the FW400. If it too an improvement then, if business picks up, I'll save for a new mini in the spring. I'll just have to save the SMPS from my 2010 to put it back in before giving the machine to one of our kids.

 

d) A lot of you have Mac laptops. I would be very interested to know what your USB bus trees look like (if that's not too personal ;-)).

 

Let me know if you think of anything else nutty for me to try!

Cheers,

--Alex Crespi

 

[EDIT] P.S. I just looked at my own screenshots again and see that in both cases the WaveIO (LuckIt) USB connection is indeed shown under a "hub." It is just that for the poorer sounding port it is shared with the Bluetooth controller. But Bluetooth, and I am pretty sure the IR as well, was always turned off. I am now more shocked that this made such a difference.

 

P.P.S. Just for completeness, here is what the USB tree of my 2010 mini looks like:

Screen Shot 2013-11-21 at 5.51.30 PM.png

Screen Shot 2013-11-21 at 5.48.13 PM.png

Link to comment

Of course I'd been resisting playing back from RAMdisk, since it is the least convenient alternative for me. But I finally had to try it, comparing it to playback from an SD card, which on my MBP is on the USB bus (but making sure it is assigned to a different USB port than my DAC).

 

In both cases A+ was on its own RAMdisk, which I prefer to A+ on the internal SSD. I've left the SSD as the boot and OS drive. When playing back from RAMdisk the SD card was removed.

 

I liked playback from RAMdisk much better. Lots more clarity and expressiveness. On a 2L jazz recording with trumpet I could hear a breathy detail to the playing mostly absent when playing back from SD card. That's just one example from one song (though it doesn't hurt that the 2L stuff is so well recorded, and at 8x rates which means the iZotope and DAC interpolation filters are bypassed), but I liked everything I compared better played back from RAMdisk.

 

Sigh. There goes convenience.

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

Link to comment

I liked playback from RAMdisk much better. Lots more clarity and expressiveness. On a 2L jazz recording with trumpet I could hear a breathy detail to the playing mostly absent when playing back from SD card.

 

Yeah, horns of all sorts have become a whole new experience since RAM disking. Like you say, there is bunch more to hear within them--both as part of the attack and as part of the decay. It is now a lot easier to tell different horns apart and to appreciate the subtle intonation of really good players.

Time to dig further into my jazz and band collection!

 

Guess we'll be using and modifying Souptin's RAM disk Applescript a bit more. And we should get Damien caught up on all this (though I recall sending him a link to this thread at the begging of the week). Would be great to have A+ do the RAM disk for us as part of 2.0.

Link to comment

d) A lot of you have Mac laptops. I would be very interested to know what your USB bus trees look like (if that's not too personal ;-)).

 

Let me know if you think of anything else nutty for me to try!

Cheers,

--Alex Crespi

 

Alex,

Here's the USB tree up on my 2012 MBP, which has two USB 3.0 ports, one Firewire 800, and one Thunderbolt. I do utilize the Apple IR remote, but do not run iTunes, wi-fi, bluetooth, Finder, or any other apps while playing music with A+, always in exclusive playlist mode. Music files load from the external Firewire 800 drive into Audirvana's 5120mb memory cache.

 

Screen Shot 2013-11-21 at 9.33.27 PM.png

Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



×
×
  • Create New...