PS Audio - PWD - Perfect Wave DAC

[I. G.]

Internet is not required for a home network.

 

[ManWithAPlan]

Yes, there are folks using the J River Media Center with the PWD/Bridge successfully right now, fellow Beta testers. It's working nicely for them.

 

-Brian

 

[barrows]

"Internet is not required for a home network."

 

But to take advantage of the PS Audio Cloud database for accessing metadata through the PerfectWave Transport one needs to be connected to the internet.

 

 

 

[Codifus]

You can have a slow dialup connection to the internet whilst having a fast home 1000 base-t network. Sure, downloads would be slow, but you can leave your computer on 24/7 to finish copying the data down. Once downloaded, speed and access to that data across your network will be fast.

 

Better than nothing at all?

 

CD

 

[barrows]

I am on dial up here, about 49 kbps. Phone lines are terrible as well, so the connection gets dropped quite often (at least a few times a day)-definitely not worth trying to download any music here, not to mention how often the electricity drops out. I take my laptop to friends' places with broadband whenever there is something to download; this approach works fine.

My understanding though is that the PWD/bridge needs an internet connection to access PS' servers where the metadata lives-this would need to be highspeed as well to work. I am going to confirm this with my buds from PS tomorrow.

Still, I feel like I need broadband here...I keep bugging Qwest about it, everytime they call me and ask me to "bundle" ha ha! Bundle what exactly? There is no cell up here, or DSL, so...

 

[ManWithAPlan]

I own the PWD/Bridge right now, and can tell you that you don't need an Internet connection. As others have noted, all you need is a typical 100MB internal LAN, or 1000MB if you're feeling superduper. The meta-data does not need to be queried in order to play. In fact, most people already have tagged their music files, and in that case, the PWD just carries the info over to it. Now, if you don't happen to have album art in the folder of the files, or embedded in the actual files, then the PWD will reach out to the Globalnet servers that PS operates and will attempt to pull down the correct album art, making mistakes about 25% of the time, but doing its best. For those of us who are picky and tag our own files ourselves, including artwork there is literally no need for the PWD to be Internet-connected. The software updates would have to be pulled down from the internet of course, but those are less often, and you could always go to your buddy's house, pull down the upgrade file, and then load it locally on your LAN.

 

In short, don't let lack of an internet connection be the reason you don't buy the PWD/Bridge. It is not needed to enjoy great streaming music. Even in the event you send the PWD a file that has absolutely no meta data embedded in it, no artwork, nothing, it will still play just fine, no delays at all, I've tried it. The PWD attempts to reach out to the globalnet servers, but in the meantime, continues to play the track.

 

-Brian

 

[jb5200]

Thanks Brian,

 

What program are you using to play your files? So it is possible to play the files using JRMC on your computer and it gets sent to the PWD/Bridge? Any other software programs that work Media Monkey, Winamp, etc.?

 

Here's my goal - let me know if this works, and I'm probably making it a lot harder than it needs to be:

 

- I want to get my computer CPU next to desk over in another room (right now it's next to audio rack).

- Connect it into the network over by the desk.

- Have my monitor, keyboard, mouse over on top of audio rack

- I already have an HDMI, ethernet in the wall from the desk all they way over to the audio rack so I could connect the montior HDMI. The wireless mouse actually reaches over by the audio tower so that takes care of the monitor and mouse.

- My only hang up was the keyboard but I can get a Monitor that has usb and run the keyboard off of the monitor.

- My reasoning is because I would much rather look at a 21" screen when looking at my library/playlists/album art rather than a 4" screen.

- I want to connect to the PWD using the bridge to the network(computer)

- Open JRMC, Media Monkey, Winamp, etc. and hit play and quiver in sheer pleasure!

 

All right, I'm sittin' down - fire away!!

 

 

 

[ManWithAPlan]

jb5200, I already described at length in response to you on 10/12 in this very thread. Did you have a chance to read that? Start there, I think I've made it clear that no, you cannot use a computer based "controller" or player to play your music through the Bridge. You need an iPad/iPod Touch/iPhone to use as the "controller" with the PS audio app that runs on the Apple devices. Again, read my earlier response, then let me know what other questions I can answer on it.

 

Scroll backwards my friend.

 

Thanks!

Brian

 

[CharlyD]

The PlugPlayer and other software you've described that operate on the iDevice platforms perform the function of a UPnP Control Point. This function can exist anywhere on the network, including on a PC or Mac. The TwonkyMedia Manager is one such application, Asset is developing Asset Control, JMC is another and I'm sure there are many more to come. The Control Point allows browsing of the content exposed by the Digital Media Server (DMS), matches that content to the rendering capabilities of the player (DMR) and establishes the connection between the DMR and DMS to play the content.

 

That said, I'm not sure what the level of compliance of the Bridge is to UPnP/DLNA standards. If the Bridge meets the requirements of a Digital Media Renderer, then yes, you can select and play content through the Bridge from a PC or Mac.

 

[ziggyzack]

From ps audio forum, ps audio have used the open source linn upnp stack in the bridge, so it will be upnp compatible. think they also plan to add the linn upnp extensions for gapless playback and a few other crucial enhancements. That means any of the existing control points with linn extensions would work on the bridge (as well as standard upnp control points of course).

 

[MikeJazz]

Ziggyzack,

if that is confirmed it's a nice example of the beauty of Open Source.

 

 

[brontotx]

No i-touch/phone/pad needed. My Bridge was delivered last Friday and I had just ordered an i-touch, so I got antsy this weekend wanting to hook the Bridge up to the PWD. Since I like dbPowerAmp products, I used Asset UPnP Server (v2.1) and the Asset Control software (beta). My ripped FLAC files sound heavenly on my system (ReadyNAS NV+ -> NetGear WRN3500 -> Ethernet Cat 6 cable -> Bridge -> PSA PWD -> Magnum Dynalab MD 209 -> Duevel Bella Luna Diamantes).

 

I did have some firewall issues with ESET Security Suite (Vista 64 version) that I was unable to create sufficient exceptions for to get the Asset Control to work properly, so I've currently got the ESET personal firewall disabled and turned back on the the Windows firewall.

 

[mantis07]

can the bridge/PWD be used without a NAS? I have a Sans Digital ESATA hardrive enclosure attached to my PC. All my FLAC music is on it and I use my Squeezebox with it. If I install Asset to provide UPNP will I be able to see the music on the bridge/PWD and select it using the PWD remote?

 

Thanks for any info!

Tony

 

[barrows]

I believe the short answer to your question is 'yes". But I would encourage you to take this question directly to PS Audio for a complete technical response. They have forums which discuss this kind of thing at their website:

psaudio.com

 

[kana813]

"If I install Asset to provide UPNP will I be able to see the music on the bridge/PWD and select it using the PWD remote?"

 

No. The PWD remote can't select files on your PC/HD, that the purpose of the control iPhone/iTouch/iPad app in the PSAudio

network playback system.

 

Otherwise you'll need to use a control function on the PC software.

 

 

[mantis07]

that's exactly what I needed

 

Tony

 

 

 

[brontotx]

The Asset UPNP Server and Asset Control software can be used - without the i-pod/pad/phone remote/controller - to select music and control the Bridge/PWD from your computer similar to SqueezeCenter.

 

[wappinghigh]

I've got some questions on the newly released network "bridge" card for this DAC.

 

According to all the sales blurb, this will allow you to stream up to 24/192 maybe even 32bit files "natively" bypassing the DACS SRC (sample rate chip)

 

So does this take out a big amount of the jitter? It sure would isolate the DAC/"player" from the computer...

 

Has anybody done a review of how high bit/hi rez network streamers (like this DAC/streamer combo) sound playing 24/192 files and the like, compared to DAC's that are physically tied (by some sort of USB or firewire cable)

 

Thx

 

[Quest]

There are many variables.

 

1. If comparing different DACs, then the performance of the DAC comes into play as well, not just the methodology. To compare the streamer in isolation maybe we have to wait for PSA to come out with their standalone streamer.

 

2. Making it simple, you should compare the usb input of the PSA PWD vs the streamer.

 

I have not done the above comparison. However, I still feel the PSA PWD sounds quite abit better with the transport (with i2s input) than via the streamer.

 

Theoretically, that means I can get better sound if I get a quality converter externally, assuming such converter can reach the standard of the transport.. but that's just my thought.

 

[wappinghigh]

Their blurb says the network bridge card accesses the I2S directly. Same as their transport. So it should sound at least as good as the transport. (for equivalent tracks)...with the added benefit of playing 24/192 and beyond. WIth no loss over cables attached to a computer (or transport)

 

All good in theory I guess..

 

Of course the biggest problem I can see is the digital volume control...

Is the USB input asynchronos?

 

 

 

 

[barrows]

"Of course the biggest problem I can see is the digital volume control...

Is the USB input asynchronos?"

 

1. The digital volume control is not a "problem" in any way. You will find better performance by using it, and avoiding the extra noise and distortion caused by the preamp and associated cabling in most cases. If your system requires a preamp for analog sources, you just set the volume control to full scale, and it has absolutely no effect on the sonics: a digital volume control set to full scale is the same as not having one at all.

2. The USB input is not Asynchronous, it uses the Centrance code running on a TAS 1020 chip. The PWD will offer its best performance when playing back from the transport via I2S, or via the Network Bridge.

3. The Network Bridge uses digital lens technology at its output, with two fixed frequency oscillators acting as the master clock. This method results in very, very low jitter.

 

[wappinghigh]

"The digital volume control is not a "problem" in any way."

 

How is this so?

 

My set up at the moment involves playing a modded Sonos straight into my current DAC->Linn Power amp. There is no preamp. And I can tell you digital volume control IS a big problem. It was my understanding that lowering digital volume to "listenable" levels chops large bits out of the digital stream being played... This is certainly what seems to be going on with my current setup..

 

The best volume control I have ever heard on an "all in one" preamp/dac was the Empirical Audio. Are you saying the digital volume control in the PSAudio is somehow special, or different? Is it a digital to analogue control arrangement like the Weiss? If what you are saying is correct, why does everyone who has one of the PSAudio's and no preamp seem to be going out to buy attenuators...?

 

(Confused)...

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi wappinghigh - It's all in the implementation of the digital volume controls. These volume controls can be done terribly or wonderfully. My Berkeley Audio Design Alpha DAC has a terrific digital volume control. The Weiss DAC202 has a great coarse analog / fine digital volume control. I'm unfamiliar with the PWD volume at this time. I will be doing a full review in the future.

 

[wappinghigh]

A lot of the time in searching for the ideal "playback" solution, I think we forget about the "fundamentals". And volume control IS one of the fundamentals! I look forward to the review!

 

In your review, please pay attention to the digital volume control of the DAC. As it is a crucial component of using it as a "pre" see this thread... http://www.psaudio.com/ps/forum/viewthread/9/P45/

 

It way to easy to get distracted by all the fantastic IR/touchscreen/network streaming technology and forget about what really matters IHMO

 

[Quest]

"Their blurb says the network bridge card accesses the I2S directly. Same as their transport. So it should sound at least as good as the transport. (for equivalent tracks)...with the added benefit of playing 24/192 and beyond. WIth no loss over cables attached to a computer (or transport)"

 

The transport also allows playback of 24/192, so no loss over there.. I agree, everything is in theory. We had done this test quite a few times in a few setups and PWT always wins. We noted that the differences were smaller if your setup is not fully optimised.. same as with all things.

 

Am not sure if the buffer levels are the same as the PWT does buffer the whole track internally before outputting. Also, in mid/high level setups, the difference could just be the additional EMI/RF that is in the room and within the PWD with the bridge engaged, vs the isolation (power, vibration, emi/rf) provided by the transport in a separate box.. who knows? only way for me to know (as i am not technical and would not want to guess) is to wait for the standalone streamer and see if that works as well as transport in separate box.

 

I have to say the bridge is convenient though, but I still prefer squeezebox software in this aspect (or a PC).

 

Most of my tests on the PSA PWD/PWT were done with an additional pre-amp as we found it to be better, so can't really comment on it relative to other dac's digital pre section.