Who's used the Audiophile Optimizer for Windows 2012 Server or Windows 8?

[k6davis]

Has anyone made this switch and can you comment on the change in sound? Obviously the DAC needs to be the same to really compare apples to apples.

 

To dminches and anyone else who may be wondering if this upgrade is worthwhile, here's what I tried. It didn't cost me a penny and allowed me to see for myself, with my own ears my own system, if this is real and if it's worth the considerable investment. If you want to know the answer without having to read this whole long post, the answer is an unqualified yes!

 

I downloaded the 180 day free trial of Win Server 2012 from the link on AudioPhil's page (Highend-AudioPC | Order) and used this free software tool to create a bootable USB flash drive (Microsoft Store) to install it to an old computer that I just had laying around. It is not in any way optimized for audio. I installed Win Server 2012 with its full GUI.

 

Once the OS was installed, I copied the following to the USB flash drive: the JRiver install file (free trial), drivers for my DAC and a good number of my favorite audio tracks.

 

Getting everything set up to this point was simple, intuitive and quick (for an OS install). By design, Win Server 2012 has a very different purpose than Win 7/8. Its interface presented several "server administration" functions that I didn't understand, but I ignored all of that and just ran JRiver as I normally do. In the basic capacity that I utilized for this test, the look, feel and operation of JRiver was no different than it is on Win 7/8.

 

My purpose was to see if, as I'd read, "the worst" (non-optimized) configuration of Win Server 2012 is superior to "the best" (optimized) Win 7/8 configuration. I wanted to establish a baseline for what this change could mean.

 

So... I've been running run Win 7 with a fair amount of software optimization. I have tried Fidelizer and JPlay, both of which made an improvement. But I was not prepared for what I heard from Win Server 2012. The change wasn't at all subtle. And again, this was as "bad" as I could make Win 2012. The PC I installed it to is poorly suited for audio. It has no audiophile USB card. I did nothing to improve its power conditioning. I wasn't running Win 2012 in core mode. I obviously wasn't using a Dual PC configuration. And last but not least, I wasn't using the Audiophile Optimizer we're discussing in this thread.

 

Still, the improvements in sound that I heard with *just* Win Server 2012... just amazed me. I'm not really going to try to quantify it the sound with words, because we've all heard the words many times and for me at least, the superlatives start to blur into one another. What I will say, is that I heard a quality of sound that was beyond what I thought digital is capable of. It's less accurate to say that the sound was "improved" than to say that the sound seemed "transformed" - into something fully better. That's big talk, I know, but it's free to find out for yourself.

 

Needless to say, I'm making the move to Win Server 2012, and I'll also be making some of the enhancements I described above. For example, I've got a Paul Pang USB 3.0 card on the way.

 

In terms of cost and value, the Audiophile Optimizer is relatively inexpensive and it's far cheaper than Win Server 2012 itself. For me, justifying the cost of the new OS was the large hurdle - a hurdle I've now cleared. Spending approximately $100 beyond that for the Audiophile Optimizer to get significantly better sound than what I'm hearing now is a no-brainer for me.

 

The only thing I'm having trouble with is figuring out how much better the sound can get! But I'm definitely going to find out!

[k6davis]

I very excited about all this. Right now I am running win server 2012 unoptimized. Once I get my Lampizator I will move everything into my main listening room and start the tweaking process, starting with Phil's optimizer.

 

I'm right where you are dminches! I've got an order in for a LamipzatOr DAC too and am very excited about the whole thing! I'm going to run Phil's optimizer as soon as I get my computer(s) set up, since I can run it again once the LampizatOr arrives.

 

It seems as though there have been several relatively recent synergistic breakthroughs in what's possible and I'm trying to combine them to get the best result I can.

 

Many thanks to everyone here who shares their knowledge & experience.

 

It's going to be a very, very Merry Christmas for me.

[k6davis]

Keith, Great post!! Welcome to the "WS2012 Wow, It's Way Better" Club.

 

Take your time to get used to each sonic step, so you can update the group as well as you did in this post.

 

Thanks ted_b. Believe me, it's my pleasure to be a member of that club! And the updates will be forthcoming!

 

I'm running my single PC in Core mode, AudiophileOptimizer, J.River 19, and no JPLAY. I find Sever Standard GUI unoptimized absolutely unlistenable. That's what you have to look forward to. You haven't heard anything yet.

 

There are some power tweaks that will greatly help as well.

 

That sounds unreal, but as I wrote, I'm starting to see the truth of what you're all saying. So all I can say is, I can't wait to get it all together and hear for myself!

 

An i5 or i7 sized cpu can do things like very high sample rate upsampling or format conversions and other types of DSP that the DN2800MT just can't do...especially if you use something like jPlay. Both my DN2800MT (controlpc) and my i7 (Audiopc) have been using Optimizer since day one (alpha tester). I will soon retire my 2800 Atom (Caps V2+, aka Lagoon) due to underpowered cpu and instead build an S1200KPR/Xeon machine as my new audiopc.

 

Whew ted_b... there's a lot to unpack there. But you're addressing my next question, which is: In a dual PC setup, which machine benefits more from increased memory & a more powerful CPU?

 

My control PC would be handling JRiver, DSP, any sample rate conversions, etc, so I'd want it to be powerful. My understanding was that the audio PC in a dual PC setup will be loafing by design, so I would have thought that something like a Core i3 (instead of an i5 or i7) would be more than adequate. On the other hand, jPlay plays music from memory. I would guess that the music is stored in the memory of the audio PC, so I'd want to maximize its RAM.

 

So in short, my theory is: Control PC - more CPU. Audio PC - more memory.

 

I'm doing a lot of guessing & supposing. Can anyone shed some light on that?

 

Also, does WS2012 Core/Audiophile Optimizer impose any networking limitations on the single/control PC? In other words, is it possible/desirable to have my music drives connected via network to WS2012 Core? I'd want to use a laptop to manage (add/move/rename, etc) the files in the music library from a Win 7/8 machine on the network - as opposed to using WS2012 Core's command line interface.

[k6davis]

I completed my dual PC system about a week ago with my old i3 and i5 processors. Of course, it was optimized with Phil's optimizer. The difference in SQ is easy to detect.

 

In the building process, I have to reinstall/restore from backup twice because I converted to core mode too soon. In core mode, it is not easy to do your maintenance you normally do in GUI mode. Given that the AudioPC is a "just play" PC, I have converted that to core, but I am staying in GUI in my ControlPC until I am sure I have taken care of all the "bits and pieces".

 

Enjoy the new SQ in your music.

 

Congrats on getting your system up and running. I'm about to start putting mine together next week.

 

When you say you had to reinstall/restore from backup, do you mean that you restored WS2012 from a backup? If so, what did you use to backup and restore it? Had you already activated WS2012 when you restored it? I'm concerned about activating WS2012 and being unable to reactivate it if I want to start over.

 

 

Phil, I just spent a bit of time trying out the latest beta and as you mentioned the improvements are subtle. In my system, I noticed a slightly clearer, more pure sound as if the noise floor was lowered. Thank you for continuing to improve an already awesome product.

 

Did you use the new Express or Advanced modes in the new beta? Or are the subtle improvements not related to those new features?

[k6davis]

Within Windows 2012 itself. You can also find it if you look under Control Panel. But the items are different from those in Windows 7 or 8. That's the reason for the search.

 

Yes, restoring from backup copy of Windows 2012. Before you convert to core or minimal server, search for Backup in Windows 2013 and you will be given options to backup. I did a bare metal and system image backup. And that proved to be very useful when you want to go back to the system state before converting to core.

 

That's good to know. I'd read somewhere that WS2012 had a good internal backup application. It seems like it would be great advice in general (and perhaps a suggestion in the instructions) to do a backup of the configured system before initially switching to minimal server or core. It's free, the tools are included in the OS and it could potentially eliminate the "thousands of changes" that are made from switching back and forth.

 

I could see myself reverting to a backup when I need to install an updated version of JRiver, for example, as I've heard you can't do that in core mode. I don't know if that's true, but if it is, that would be an excellent use of the backup.

 

I didn't activate Win 2012 at all. I installed from a USB stick created with Windows 7 USB tool. And for some reason, no activation needed. Refer to Phil's Guide. It's documented there.

 

Good luck. It's well the worth the effort.

 

It sounds as though you're using the trial of WS2012. I am too at the moment, but I can't imagine that it would run for (much) longer than the trial period without activation.

 

I've got two WS2012 licences that I haven't used yet (of course I will install them), but I'm concerned with the mobility of the licenses/activation. Does anyone know if it's possible to move a WS2012 to a new computer when I inevitably update my computer hardware down the road? I tried to Google it, but got bogged down in advice pertaining to huge server farm types of installations and other complexities.

[k6davis]

I am now running in core mode and really enjoying this. No more tweaking this weekend, just listening.

 

Thanks Tommy for your help with remote desktop.

 

And thanks Phil for your tech support.

 

I'm about ready to switch from GUI to core mode and run the Optimizer for the first time.

 

Remote access is the thing I'm concerned about. I've enabled it in GUI mode. Will I need to do something to re-enable it in core mode?

 

When I Googled it, I saw something about needing to edit the registry...

[k6davis]

Hi

 

You mean RDP? No, just enable and configure it in while you are in GUI mode. Swith to core and then don't disable Network related Services or RDP when you run the Optimizer.

 

You could also use WinRS or Powershell Remoting to Access the AudioPC.

 

Thanks for the quick response audioPhil! Your support really is as good as they say!

 

Do you have a preference among these methods of remote access? Does leaving on Network related Services & RDP have a negative impact on the sound?

[k6davis]

EVERYTHING has a negative impact on the sound! But some things are so infinitesimal or theoretical that it's not worth worrying about. Just use Remote desktop, make sure you have your audiopc's administrator password and/or auto logon set, and you're there. I use RDP to log into my GUI controlpc, then from its own desktop an RDP icon to log onto my core audiopc.

 

Thanks teb_b,

 

So far, I haven't had a need to log into my audiopc. It's running in Hibernate mode anyway. I've been using it headless and haven't had any issues.

 

Is there anything you do regularly with the audiopc that might be of interest to me, or is your ability to connect to it more of a "just in case" thing?

[k6davis]

Thanks a lot, i always try to be fast and responsive. sometime it takes a bit longer, but i never let one customer down so far.

 

If you Need some graphical Connection, then RDP is my bet. if you are Computer safy, WinRS or PowerShell Remoting are the way to go.

 

Thanks audioPhil & ted_b for your informative responses.

 

I can't wait to hear how it sounds!

[k6davis]

Well, I can finally add my voice to the chorus of happy customers of AudioPhil's product. Honestly, I was nervous about making the changes at first as they seemed somewhat outside my comfort zone and I was happy with the sound I was getting before. But I was convinced by the things I'd read here and on other forums to give it a try. That turned out to be a very wise decision!

 

I'm now running a Dual PC setup, with WS2012 core & the Audiophile Optimizer on both. JRiver is on the ControlPC and Paul Pang's USB 3.0 card is in the AudioPC. I've taken a very slow, deliberate route to finally arriving at this point, making lots of incremental changes and getting acclimated to the sound at each step of way.

 

Because of how great the sound was in the previous iterations (Win7-JPlay, then single-WS2012-GUI-non-optimized, then dual-WS2012-GUI-non-optimzed), I wasn't prepared for the difference the Audiophile Optimizer would make. It's not the kind of improvement that you have to convince yourself you're hearing. I don't pretend to understand all of what AudioPhil has done here or what kind of effort it must have taken, but the sound is dramatically better. And the Audiophile Optimizer accounted for the largest leap of all my upgrades, by far. Better still, all of the changes it made were positive. I didn't gain in one area only to lose in another. I can't believe what I'm hearing from (lossless rips of) CD's I've been listening to for years.

 

WS2012 installs faster and just as easily as Win8. The optimizer itself is very quick easy to use, and I went through the advanced setup mode. It took many times longer to read the detailed manual than it did to actually use the Optimizer. Even using WS2012 in core mode without the GUI hasn't turned out to be difficult. JRiver & JPlay both run almost exactly the same as they do in GUI mode. My music is on networked drives and I use my laptop to remote control the ControlPC (with Remote Desktop) and for most of my library management.

 

One thing I found invaluable is the ability to perform "bare metal" backups of my OS with the free, open-source "Clonezilla" app. It quickly and easily backs up your entire system into a single, restorable file. I stored the backups on a USB flash drive. Having them gave me the freedom to try things out with the ability to go back to a previous, successful state if I made a mistake or forgot something that turned out to matter.

 

Anyway, as you can tell, I'm very pleased with the Audiophile Optimizer. I didn't before, but I now see my server(s) as an audio component, and a high end audio component at that. To anyone wondering if optimized WS2012 is worth it, the sonic difference between it and a consumer OS is dramatic. Not running it just means that a significant amount of what you could be hearing is lost before the bits ever leave your computer.

 

Thanks to AudioPhil and all of the members here who helped me directly & indirectly with their posts and messages!!

[k6davis]

This weekend I switched the digital filter to D and I am really liking it. It has removed some of the harshness that I was hearing before.

 

Thanks Phil!

 

That's great to hear dminches.

 

I've recently installed the optimizer for the first time with the recommended options and it sounds excellent. I haven't even experimented with the other choices yet. Plus, I'm running on dual servers, so that means I have the 4 engine options in JPlay (x2) and all of the sound signature & digital filter options (x2) in the Audiophile Optimizer!!

 

What it boils down to is that there there's tremendous flexibility and therefore, there should be a setting to please every ear/system/room. And it's all "bit-perfect.." although that phrase means a lot less to me now than it used to!

 

Thanks again to Phil, ted_b and all of the other users for sharing their knowledge & experience.

 

Happy New Year to all!

[k6davis]

I am noticing that the bass with digital filter D is deeper and tighter than with A or B. It is sounding closer to my analog bass response with my VPI TT.

 

I'm going to have to give that a try when I get home.

[k6davis]

Hi

 

Currently I lik 1D on the ControlPC and 4D on the AudioPC the most.

 

Best,

Phil

 

Phil, that posting of yours deserves some emphasis.

 

I was surprised at how much I preferred the sound of the system with those settings compared to other settings. That these settings can make such a difference and yet still be "bit perfect" really puts to rest the whole idea that "bits is bits".

 

Once again, I have to say thanks for your product. The improvement it makes is so obvious and dramatic that it seems that it should really be a baseline for serious audiophiles. Without it, the signal is compromised at the outset, before it even gets to your cables, amps & speakers.

 

The benefits are the same as what people generally proclaim when they make a positive change to their system. A richer, more analog sound, quieter background, much greater detail & transparency, but not at the expense of warmth, incredible soundstaging and depth, hearing new details for the first time, etc. What's different about the Audiophile Optimizer is the degree of these changes. Another poster compared it to adding a cost-no-object dcs Scarlatti to your system. I haven't heard a Scarlatti, but I completely understand what he's saying. It seemed like hyperbole, but it's now clear to me what yet another poster meant when he said that even WS2012 (let alone Win7 & Win8) without the Optimizer is relatively "unlistenable".

 

One of the biggest unexpected benefits is that it has largely eliminated the need to seek out my best "audiophile" recordings when I want to hear what my system is capable of. I now hear previously obscured audio quality in all of my music, so now I listen with amazement as I'm able to get so much more enjoyment from what seemed to be just average recordings. Recordings that used to be good now sound amazing.

 

I should add that I also just started using Volume Leveling in JRiver and that has enhanced my listening experience far beyond what I anticipated. Volume differences have a huge impact on how we perceive sound. Many older or quieter recordings that I'd considered inferior sound fantastic when volume is normalized. Lots of them have better dynamic range than their remastered versions as well.

 

The combination of the Audiophile Optimizer and Volume Leveling have transformed my listening experience, all without having bought a single new component. Futhermore, the net effect is not just that my system sounds better, but that my thousands of recordings sound much better that I realized they could.

[k6davis]

These are the specs the machine is basically built on:

 

https://www.highend-audiopc.com/PDF/hardware-setup.pdf

 

As a counterpoint to the recent posts recommending optimum/premium computer audio server hardware, audioPhil's manual for the Audiophile Optimizer states:

 

The good news about using the AudiophileOptimizer is that it will work with components in a variety of price

ranges. In fact you'll be surprised at the results you can achieve using even modestly priced computer and

audio equipment.

 

I run fairly stock Shuttle PCs because they're compact, run cool and are quiet enough that I can't hear them at all, even though they're not fanless. Plus they look nice.

 

The only adjustments I've made to my computer hardware are that I loaded them both with SSD's and 16GB of quality RAM (since JPlay plays everything from memory and I have a lot of hi-res content) and most importantly the audioPC has the Paul Pang USB 3.0 card. I also purchased a Mapleshade Clearlink Plus USB cable since it was highly recommended on this site as perhaps the best reasonably priced cable.

 

As I mentioned in a previous post, I'm getting stellar results. Apparently there's more to be gained by optimizing the computers further, but I didn't want anyone to get the idea that the Audiophile Optimizer isn't worthwhile unless your computer(s) are perfected.

 

IMO, the reverse is true. I'd install the Audiophile Optimizer first and make computer hardware upgrades later if I couldn't do it all at once.

[k6davis]

Though warning on that... you'll end up buying it. Just saying.

 

That's for sure!! LOL

 

I'm in the process of making some upgrades and as it turns out, I'm using a temporary DAC (Schiit Loki) that isn't compatible with WS2012.

 

I'm really missing the Audiophile Optimizer. My sound has collapsed, compared to what it was before.

 

I should be up and running with my new gear tomorrow night and then it's back to WS2012/Audiophile Optimizer *plus* the new DAC!

 

Good times!!

[k6davis]

CMedia drivers...

 

but i like the passage about the collapsing soundstage very much!! :-)

 

...wait for 1.24 with qWave support, this will raise the level once again!

 

 

I thought you might, Phil. But that's exactly what happened.

 

Meanwhile, what is this qWave you speak of?! And how soon will the update be ready?

[k6davis]

I don't and will not have a control PC. Just a similar build to the Zuma in the CAPS style.

 

So with this singular music server with ws2012 installed as the os, Jriver as the player and jremote to control it headless (after setup), will I be able to make this work with solid stabilty and letting the server hibernate/sleep when not in use.

 

If not, will ws2012 (without optimizations/core mode if impossible) be a better OS in general over win7/8 64?

 

My rebuild is in slow/stalled mode at the moment due to no HDplex H5 cases being available so I'd really like to finetune/plan my new build before it becomes available.

 

I appreciate your advice.

 

WS2012 is a much "lighter" OS than Win 7/8 even with the GUI and especially without it. I wouldn't expect you to have issues with stability. That's also what makes it sound better than Win 7/8 even without optimization and why AudioPhil chose it as the platform for his product.

 

You can back up (and restore) your current system drive with any one of several "bare metal" backup tools (I use the free Clonezilla) and download a 180 day free trial of WS2012 to get a feel for how the server OS runs and sounds on your hardware. I'd also take a good look at AudioPhil's excellent manual. It goes into detail about hardware & software configuration without being difficult to understand.

 

WS2012 should sound better than Win 7/8 unoptimized, but WS2012 + AO is where the real magic is.

[k6davis]

PewterTA,

Great to hear that it worked out well for you too! Have you tried AudioPhil's (and my) current favorite settings?

 

Hi

 

Currently I lik 1D on the ControlPC and 4D on the AudioPC the most.

 

Best,

Phil

 

These things are of course a matter of opinion and system dependent, but I found these settings to be significantly better than others I'd tried. Plus, I was using a NAD M51 too at the time.

 

I'd be curious to hear what you think.

[k6davis]

I have not played with Phil's settings yet, and I am using a single PC. If you only have a single PC system and wanted to try Phil's settings, should it be 1D (like he has on his control pc) or 4D like on his audio pc?

 

Thanks.

 

I'd try the 4D first, as your single PC is your "AudioPC", in the sense that it's the one connected to the DAC. Of course, you could experiment with both. Hopefully Phil will chime in on this soon.

 

What stood out for me was the preference for "D" that he and others have recently expressed. It seems to really maximize clarity, warmth and detail all at the same time.. somehow.

[k6davis]

I've just ordered my new htpc, streacom FC5S, haswel I7 65w, H87M asus micro atx card.

It'll replace my whole "older" bigger htpc.

So I'll need to run jriver for both purpose, hdmi out for watching BR, mkv, and usb out to my dac.

Glad that it could work in windows 2012, because it's not that clear when you begin to dig, running jriver, anydvdhd, it's not so clear that it could work on 2012 server (but I'll keep GUI mode for ease of use I guess)

 

I would strongly consider getting an additional computer that could be dedicated to music.

 

The point of the Audiophile Optimizer, as I understand it, is that it eliminates as much computing activity as possible that isn't required to deliver the bits to your DAC with as perfect timing as is possible. Furthermore, the optimizations it performs for music may not be optimal for the other purposes you have in mind for the HTPC.

 

Running the Audiophile Optimizer on a multi-purpose computer with lots of other applications and drivers and a GUI is far from ideal.

 

The dedicated music machine needn't be expensive nor powerful to be better at serving music than your multifunction HTPC would be.

[k6davis]

LOL Phil I have been listening and I am astonished!!! It is hard to imagine my sound getting better, but it has!!! Thank you soooo much...

 

Everything just seems even more open and direct. Still liking 1-D and I have listened with both my Stax phones and my main speaker system and I am so impressed.

 

regards

Bob

 

You guys have me jealous. I'm not able to listen to my system for the next few days, but I can't wait to hear it with the updated AO. Like you Bob, it's hard for me to imagine it sounding better than it was already.

 

I've read so much about people that go to great lengths to optimize their computer hardware. I'm not saying those things don't make any difference, but they focus heavily on hardware tweaks, then run stock consumer OS's. They don't know what they're missing.

[k6davis]

Phil, you mention US 125 and 25. What is this?

 

JPLAY Ultrastream buffersize

 

AudioPhil,

 

These must be JPlay registry settings, right? Because the settings in the JPlay GUI are based on multiples of 8, not 5.

 

Also, I never have really understood the whole "shell" thing. I run WS2012 core and boot into the command prompt. I use a .bat file to automatically launch JRiver, JPlay and the Task Manager. If using JRiver as a shell means that the system would boot into JRiver instead, I'd feel like I lost functionality and control of the system.

 

I don't understand the purpose of the shell functionality well enough to know if it would be an improvement on what I'm doing now.

[k6davis]

Hi

 

Yes, i am speaking about the Ultrastream buffer size settings in the JPLAY Registry. (25 is the lowest value possible at all.) Often it is not possible to get there, many end up with US 50 or 100 to have stable operation.

 

The shell is what the operating systems loads directly after you log on. In core or minimal-server mode the shell is a command prompt, in GUI mode the shell is the desktop environment. The idea of replacing the shell has two components, loading your desired player immediately, and having another "layer" less, even if it is a very small one combining autologon and a shell replacement ends up in a "one click" solution. you only need to press the power button and have your AudioPC ready for playback.

 

Thank you Phil.

 

I'll give Shell Replacement a try.

[k6davis]

My first post here!

 

Hi AudioPhil.. Your optimizer sounds interesting and I am interested in testing your beta scripts. I already run Jplaymini on a single pc with Win2012R2.

 

thanks.

 

Welcome to the board, memofer.

 

Since you already run WS2012, adding the Audiophile Optimizer to your setup will be very easy. If you're like most users, your sound quality will improve dramatically.

 

Phil claims a 100% success & customer satisfaction rate. If you'd prefer to try before you buy, Phil has stated that his next priority, after the official release of his latest update, is to create a free trial version of his application.

[k6davis]

Hello

 

No, there won't be a free trial sorry.

 

But I will offer a money-back guarante bound to a special version of the Optimizer. It will contain a full version of the Optimizer with no limitations but it will only work on trial/evaluation versions of server 2012/R2.

 

Phil

 

What a great idea!

 

Keith