Schiit Loki - DSD-only for 149 USD

[Miska]

Do you have any longer term comments on the Loki? How do you like the SQ? Did you ever grab any test data you'd want to share like maybe where they filter at (50KHz?), jitter 60/120 Hz leakage, or anything else? I just ordered one and will have it tomorrow so I am very interested. Thanks!

 

Now I made a blog post about it with some measurement results:

Schiit Loki - affordable DSD DAC - Blogs - Computer Audiophile

 

Since I'm located in Europe, mains related components would be 50/100 Hz and multiples. Since Loki is USB-powered and in my testing it was run from computers with SMPS things are more related to SMPS switch frequencies.

[Panelhead]

Now I made a blog post about it with some measurement results:

Schiit Loki - affordable DSD DAC - Blogs - Computer Audiophile

 

Since I'm located in Europe, mains related components would be 50/100 Hz and multiples. Since Loki is USB-powered and in my testing it was run from computers with SMPS things are more related to SMPS switch frequencies.

 

The results you measured did look very good. Thanks for taking the time to test this entry level priced unit. Good show from output stage to not degrade the measurements.

 

My dac uses the same dac chip but as PCM only. It has proven to hold up against higher priced completion in my home system. The quality of supplied power is audible is this implimentation.

[firedog]

Now I made a blog post about it with some measurement results:

Schiit Loki - affordable DSD DAC - Blogs - Computer Audiophile

 

Since I'm located in Europe, mains related components would be 50/100 Hz and multiples. Since Loki is USB-powered and in my testing it was run from computers with SMPS things are more related to SMPS switch frequencies.

 

But you didn't say how you think it sounds

[BenEnglish]

Now I made a blog post about it...

Thanks for that. I note in the blog post you say:

All following measurements are done with Loki connected to my Linux desktop PC.

As a Linux user, I appreciate that. The Schiit web site does not go into setup with the Loki on Linux. Their DSD setup page at Schiit Audio, Headphone amps and DACs made in USA. covers only Windows and OSX. However, their Loki FAQ page includes this:

Can I use Loki with all of my music, including non-DSD music, AKA PCM?

 

Yes, you can convert all your music to DSD on the fly with JRiver and Foobar if you want to use Loki as your only DAC.

I'm considering the purchase of my first DAC to be connected to my PC running Mint. If I chose the Loki, however, the process of converting all "music to DSD on the fly" is a mystery to me. I wonder if the sound would be negatively impacted. Any ideas about that?

 

If the sound doesn't suffer I could see using the Loki as my only DAC if I could figure out how to set up my player to do the conversion. To that end, I've done a bit of research. I found a guide to computer audio in a recent copy of one of the big magazines. It said that for Linux the available players are HQPlayer, Minimserver, and MPD. Unfortunately, neither JRiver nor Foobar (referenced above by Schiit as suitable for doing conversions) run natively on Linux. I've seen some notes by folks saying that MPD or HQPlayer could do the conversions but I haven't been able to find setup instructions specifically addressing the need to do PCM-to-DSD for all non-DSD files.

 

Since you have some experience with the Loki on Linux, what's your opinion? Is the Loki a workable choice for a competent Linux user who is new to serious audio via computer and looking for their first DAC for all their music files?

[Miska]

If I chose the Loki, however, the process of converting all "music to DSD on the fly" is a mystery to me. I wonder if the sound would be negatively impacted. Any ideas about that?

 

My take at general level has been that no, it is not negatively impacted, since all modern DAC chips are delta-sigma converters and thus do similar conversion internally when you input PCM. At practical level it of course depends on which one has the best algorithms for doing the work.

 

I've seen some notes by folks saying that MPD or HQPlayer could do the conversions but I haven't been able to find setup instructions specifically addressing the need to do PCM-to-DSD for all non-DSD files.

 

For all the tests I used my player (HQPlayer), as far as I know it is the only Linux player at the moment capable of doing the conversion but I could be wrong. When you enable "DoP" from Settings-dialog and when select "SDM" as output format in main window, any source type is played back in DSD format using selected conversion algorithms.

 

Is the Loki a workable choice for a competent Linux user who is new to serious audio via computer and looking for their first DAC for all their music files?

 

Yes, definitely. If you don't like to use PCM-to-DSD conversion (or HQPlayer), one possibility is to use Schiit Modi for PCM. It is based on same USB and DAC chips, but has different analog stage (and doesn't have the extra processor of Loki that handles DoP protocol). Loki has pass-through switch intended for this kind of purpose.

 

Now I feel kind of sorry I didn't order Modi for comparison purposes...

[Miska]

But you didn't say how you think it sounds

 

Since that's entirely subjective I didn't want to write much about it and my expressive vocabulary for how it sounds is limited in English since it's not my native language. I always recommend people to have a listen first anyway.

 

Loki sounds similar to other DACs based on AKM chip. AKM is maybe on of the smoothest sounding in DSD mode, as well as with external PCM upsampling in PCM mode. Sabre tends to sound hard, while TI is somewhere in the middle. Immediately when I first got the Loki+Magni I did quite long listening session and was pleased with the result, it exceeded my expectations. When I can't stop listening I think it's a good sign...

 

Compared to Fostex which has AK4399 chip and is more expensive, it doesn't have the level of detail Fostex has, but the overall sonic character is similar.

[firedog]

Thanks, that was a useful summation.

 

 

Since that's entirely subjective I didn't want to write much about it and my expressive vocabulary for how it sounds is limited in English since it's not my native language. I always recommend people to have a listen first anyway.

 

Loki sounds similar to other DACs based on AKM chip. AKM is maybe on of the smoothest sounding in DSD mode, as well as with external PCM upsampling in PCM mode. Sabre tends to sound hard, while TI is somewhere in the middle. Immediately when I first got the Loki+Magni I did quite long listening session and was pleased with the result, it exceeded my expectations. When I can't stop listening I think it's a good sign...

 

Compared to Fostex which has AK4399 chip and is more expensive, it doesn't have the level of detail Fostex has, but the overall sonic character is similar.

[Panelhead]

When I can't stop listening I think it's a good sign...

 

Compared to Fostex which has AK4399 chip and is more expensive, it doesn't have the level of detail Fostex has, but the overall sonic character is similar.

 

This all sounds very positive. Glad Schiit has delivered again. Maybe there will be a 400.00 model in the future using the AK4399.

[junker]

The first day I thought it sounds a bit thin, but since it runs off USB power it has been powered up for a few days now and last night I was very, very happy with it. Now, I would be very happy if Damien would add a quality PCM->DSD conversion to A+ so I could use it for everything...

[firedog]

At Audiostream, Michael Lavorgna just wrote a review of the Loki. Very favorable. He claimed that to his ears the pass-through was transparent. In addition, he tried upsampling all his music (including PCM) in software and playing everything that way through the Loki. He was very happy with the results. So acc'd to his review, with a good server you could use the $150 DAC for quite good results as your only DAC in a good system. Clever idea. Useful for someone not ready to drop the big Bucks on a PCM/DSD capable DAC.

 

Note, he didn't claim the Loki sounded as good as much more expensive DACs, only that it was quite good on it's own.

 

Schiit Audio Loki DSD Dedicated DAC | AudioStream

[WINDIANRECORDS]

I was waiting until this paycheck to pick one up, and I just ordered it; I'll come back and let everyone know what I learn. Am looking forward to it, have not been disappointed by Schiit before.

[jhwalker]

I was waiting until this paycheck to pick one up, and I just ordered it; I'll come back and let everyone know what I learn. Am looking forward to it, have not been disappointed by Schiit before.

 

Please do share your impressions - I've been thinking about this as well, for my dedicated headphone setup. I am getting an LH Geek Pulse, but not until April / May next year, and I may not be able to wait that long - for $150, this could be a good short-term solution for me.

[WINDIANRECORDS]

Please do share your impressions - I've been thinking about this as well, for my dedicated headphone setup. I am getting an LH Geek Pulse, but not until April / May next year, and I may not be able to wait that long - for $150, this could be a good short-term solution for me.

 

Funny, I too was thinking about the Geek Pulse, but really needed a DAC now for a new build (now now now!). I'll be playing it through a modified Magnavox tube amp into some big ol' Klipsch Epics, but i'll definitely run it through my Schiit Asgard 2/DT 880s and my main rig as well. I'm extremely interested in what it does to PCM->DSD, but I know that some of that magic relies on the software used for the translation as well...

[BenEnglish]

Yes, definitely.

Thanks for your thoughts. I've done a great deal of reading on this and decided to pull the trigger. I ordered a Loki (and a Vali) and now I suppose I'll have to dive down a rabbit hole of cables and headphones. Still, I'd like better sound and I have to believe that even with the crap cables and phones I currently have, this is going to give me better sound than just plugging into the analog out on my mobo.

 

Would anybody be interested in the comments of a rank amateur on how this combo sounds? Or should I just stay quiet until I have a few hundred additional posts?

[jhwalker]

Thanks for your thoughts. I've done a great deal of reading on this and decided to pull the trigger. I ordered a Loki (and a Vali) and now I suppose I'll have to dive down a rabbit hole of cables and headphones. Still, I'd like better sound and I have to believe that even with the crap cables and phones I currently have, this is going to give me better sound than just plugging into the analog out on my mobo.

 

Would anybody be interested in the comments of a rank amateur on how this combo sounds? Or should I just stay quiet until I have a few hundred additional posts?

 

Please share

[k6davis]

I've had one for a couple of weeks.

 

I'm running it with JRiver and when I use the Loki, I upsample all of my PCM to DSD64 (which I'm really enjoying, but that's a seperate story). I also own a NAD M-51, and while the NAD is definitely still the best sounding DAC in my house, the Loki does an incredible job. I'm tempted to say that it does an incredible job "for the price", but that understates the case. It's a great sounding DAC period. There's nothing in it's sound that suggests that it costs anywhere near $150.

 

To try to quantify it, I'd say it gives you about 80% of the sound of a premium DAC (like the M-51) for less than 10% of the cost. Those numbers are completely my opinion, of course, and YMMV. More importantly, the Loki's sins are not glaring, obvious or hard or the ears.

 

Schiit markets the Loki as an add-on, but with the new ability of JRiver & Foobar to output all of your music in DSD format, I think the Loki is new go-to budget for a primary DAC, unless you're a NOS advocate. I can't imagine a better value and you can certainly spend more and get lesser sound. If you're looking for a DAC for a secondary system, or especially if your budget doesn't allow for a mega-buck DAC, I heartily recommend giving the Loki & JRiver real-time DSD upsampling a try.

[WINDIANRECORDS]

My little man is here; does anyone know what the correct settings are for Foobar to upsample PCM->DSD on the fly? I know that JRiver is supposed to be able to do the same, but I've never been able to get v18 or v19 to not crash consistently on my set-up.

 

By the way, I'm listening to the Loki tear through Roy Orbison's "Black and White Night" right now through my Asgard 2 headphone amp, and while I'm not a/b'ing PCM v DSD right now, I've heard it close to a hundred times before, and it sounds sweet right now... legitmately smoother, and transients from one of the many acoustic guitars are so forward... There may be some bias because this is my new toy, but it's not going to stop me from listening all the way through!

[CatManDo]

does anyone know what the correct settings are for Foobar to upsample PCM->DSD on the fly?

 

I'm not sure this functionality has been used a lot so far, but here's a thread about it:

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/foobar-sacd-plugin-asioplugin-6-0-pcm-x44-1k-dsd-upsampler-13822/

[WINDIANRECORDS]

I'm not sure this functionality has been used a lot so far, but here's a thread about it:

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/foobar-sacd-plugin-asioplugin-6-0-pcm-x44-1k-dsd-upsampler-13822/

 

Yep, and I was reading some more this morning (if anyone else cares, here's another pretty common link on Foobar setup - Foobar 2000 for Dummies (Part 2) | DIY-Audio-Heaven) ... Looks like my main problem was that I was feeding it some HDTracks at 96 and 192kHZ, which is not x44.1khz - Hence the wonderful white noise I was getting.

 

I'm going to try the Resampler plugin setting in Foobar to see if that can run before going to the Loki, but when I had that on and was playing DSFF files, they wouldn't work. I may create a portable Foobar install with settings for DSD/F files, and one for my FLAC; I know the Loki has a DAC passthrough, but I just want to see how well it can stand alone.

 

Thanks for the link, btw.

[WINDIANRECORDS]

So, as an update - The reason I was so bent on getting the Loki to take PCM->DSD was because this was a new computer build, and having 1 great dac for $149 that could decode both would pretty much beat anything else I can do ...

 

I've never gotten Jriver to work on my HTPC, as it froze on Library import on various installs, but my HTPC has been trudging along for a few years and didn't really need Jriver for the task at hand - on a brand new Windows 7x64 install, the Jriver demo has only crashed once in the last week, and that was when I switched from HDMI video out to DVI video out, and I'm guessing that had something to do with my HDMI audio drivers, which have since been removed.

 

With simply setting the Loki as the output in Audio Settings, then doing Output Decoding in DSD OVER DoP, it takes anything I've thrown at it so far.

 

I have to say, I had an Oppo BD-93 to decode SACD via analog out into the same amp I'm using right now, and, memory failing me or not, the Loki to me is smoother, or at least just as nice. It also imparts all that DSD entails to any PCM->DSD, and I have to say that may turn some people off. Since I tend to like my pre section as clean and neutral as possible, then use my tube amp to impart any musicality that isn't inherent (not that I need that, but that's what my amp does and I don't have the money to buy/build a new one right now), the combination of Jriver and Loki suits my needs incredibly well right now.

 

To note, you can play with the HPF/Lo Pass under - TOOLS->Options->Audio->Advanced->...Configure Input Plugin->Jriver DSD ...

[Puma Cat]

Okay, guys, I've had my Loki for about three months now, and when I saw Jason at RMAF, he confirmed I was probably the first customer outside of the Schiit factory to get one (I ordered mine the day of launch), so here's my thoughts....

 

Loki is incredible-sounding DAC for $149, and an absolutely terrific-sounding DAC, period. After three months of burn-in, I think it sounds better than my $1300 Wadia 121. I'm using it only for streaming DSD via Audirvana on a Mac Mini-based server, no converting PCM to DSD stuff...just native DSD files or stuff ripped to DSD from SACD. And it's all good, REALLY GOOD. I hardly ever listen to my Wadia anymore. When you can listen to DSD, why listen to PCM?

 

Something to note: Loki is resolving enough to really reveal the benefit of using better USB cables. I started out with an Audioquest Carbon USB, and recently replaced it with an Audioquest Coffee USB with DBS, and it made a BIG improvement. If you're not using one the better USB cables on the market, you're not hearing how good Loki can sound.

 

Overall, I am thrilled and extremely impressed with the performance of this little DAC regardless of what it cost. As Schiit points out, Loki punches WAY, WAY above it's weight class. And it has to one the greatest bargains in audio.

[BenEnglish]

Something to note: Loki is resolving enough to really reveal the benefit of using better USB cables.

Thank you for giving me yet another something to consider upgrading.

 

Something else to note: Schiit now considers Linux a supported operating system when used with HQPlayer. For *nix guys like me, that's nice to see. Their website has been updated here: Schiit Audio, Headphone amps and DACs made in USA.

[WVStarship]

I just received my Loki today and it's apparently a defective device. I have it setup in JR Media Center 19. The box lights up; the 2nd light comes on when I play a DSD file; The pass thru with my other DAC works. But--I have no sound at all from this box. I even setup a zone for PCM to DSD. Again, the box lights up that it detects the DSD being played and Media Center shows the file playing. But no sound.

 

I have an email in to Schiit, we'll see if they come up with anything. But it looks bad at this point.

[Miska]

Again, the box lights up that it detects the DSD being played and Media Center shows the file playing. But no sound.

 

One possibility is incompatible USB controller in the computer. I know same thing happening with some computer and DAC combinations. If you have another computer to try with, it may be worth checking out this possibility to save some time...

[Paul R]

This may sound dumb, but have you checked to see that JRMC does no have the volume tuned down or muted in that zone?

 

 

 

I just received my Loki today and it's apparently a defective device. I have it setup in JR Media Center 19. The box lights up; the 2nd light comes on when I play a DSD file; The pass thru with my other DAC works. But--I have no sound at all from this box. I even setup a zone for PCM to DSD. Again, the box lights up that it detects the DSD being played and Media Center shows the file playing. But no sound.

 

I have an email in to Schiit, we'll see if they come up with anything. But it looks bad at this point.