Sony ... announces DSD capable hardware

[Paul R]

Oh yes, back catalogs are incredibly profitable. For instance, while iTunes sells pretty much everything new under the sun, you don't think the billions of songs they sold are all, or even mostly, new do you?

 

For instance, I would probably re-buy a bunch of my catalog in DSD if it were remastered. Certainly all the Beatles, Alan Parsons, Al Stewart, Beethoven, Copeland, Dire Straights, ELO, and so on.

 

-Paul

 

Paul

Do you honestly believe that there is a big market among the MP3 generation for music made before they were born ?

To become a force in the market place , DSD needs support from more than just the over 50's wanting to relive their youth.

Alex

[mav52]

Oh yes, back catalogs are incredibly profitable. For instance, while iTunes sells pretty much everything new under the sun, you don't think the billions of songs they sold are all, or even mostly, new do you?

 

For instance, I would probably re-buy a bunch of my catalog in DSD if it were remastered. Certainly all the Beatles, Alan Parsons, Al Stewart, Beethoven, Copeland, Dire Straights, ELO, and so on.

 

-Paul

 

Ditto, I'm not much on classical but the ones you mentioned, I would buy in a heart beat.

[JJJ]

If you would have stated, in this thread, "I have heard x DSD DAC compared with y DAC for a time, but it didn't do anything for me because of a, b c, " then we have a discussion.

 

Simply being obstinate without any positive technical/objective/subjective is contempt.

 

Please, ffs, being polite here, offer some valid reasons for your armchair attitude.

 

 

Oh, one and bit, you miss the point. This has nothing to do with one DAC versus another. Nothing exciting has been announced here on either the content or the hardware point of view. There's some cause for a twitch of excitement were Sony to get behind DSD download but there's absolutely no indication of such yet.

 

So nothing to do with being obstinate.

 

And please curb your language and remain civil. I know it requires some effort on your part.

[JJJ]

Where have Sony said anything about providing NEW mass market DSD releases ?

At this stage, I would suspect that it is wishful thinking by many. Are they also going to turn back the clock on the "Loudness War" that started around 1985 ?

What makes people believe that even HDTracks is viable long term either, without NEW high resolution releases, not just re-releases of 16/44.1 material that many of us bought >25 years ago ?

Are audiophiles going to accept more of this just because it's DSD ?

 

 

Well said. A major development on the content side might well get me excited. But then it would not have to be DSD per se. A major announcement of a download service for current (rather than nostalgic) content would be big news, whether DSD or high bit rate LPCM (in whichever "container").

 

However, the fact remains that there is not yet enough demand to make such an event economically viable at this point in time. Consumers love iPods with crap headphones. They don't care about quality nor even understand what quality can be. iTunes hasn't been successful in spite of everyone complaining about the quality; most of its millions of customers think its quality is great. We, those who like quality audio, are a minuscule section of the market for digital audio. Hell, we haven't even broken the most basic barrier of CD quality for any and every digitally released album. iTunes announcing CD quality premium service would be bigger news than this.

 

As for the "suits" driving these decisions or the loudness war etc, give me a break! They're just tailoring their product offering to what's demanded/preferred by the consumer.

[mayhem13]

Wow.....I'm really surprised by all the pessimism. For the longest time, this community has been calling and hoping for more HiRes content and when there's a fleet of hope from Sony and some collaboration of its media markets and Hires vendors, we get a thread full of negativity? Sounds like we might just be our own worst enemy.

[Paul R]

Well, you are welcome to your opinion, but there are many who hold dissenting opinions. Including me - I think it is damn exciting that Sony is finally getting off their duff and endorsing hi-res material. In fact, I think that is perhaps one of the most exciting things to have happened in several years.

 

It would have been better coming from Apple on iTunes, but, hell - I am glad to see it from any company big enough to pull it off and get the competitors to imitate them. Sony is that, among many other things.

 

-Paul

Edit - Aiii yiiii yiii! I am agreeing with Mayhem again... the world is about to stop spinning I think...

Oh, one and bit, you miss the point. This has nothing to do with one DAC versus another. Nothing exciting has been announced here on either the content or the hardware point of view. There's some cause for a twitch of excitement were Sony to get behind DSD download but there's absolutely no indication of such yet.

 

So nothing to do with being obstinate.

 

And please curb your language and remain civil. I know it requires some effort on your part.

[baddog]

Wow.....I'm really surprised by all the pessimism. For the longest time, this community has been calling and hoping for more HiRes content and when there's a fleet of hope from Sony and some collaboration of its media markets and Hires vendors, we get a thread full of negativity? Sounds like we might just be our own worst enemy.

 

I concur 100% with this and with the subsequent post from Paul. I think this is a great step in the right direction. Lord knows having access to more high resolution content can only be a positive development.

[sandyk]

But what if Sony only releases it for the Japanese domestic market like they did with BluSpec, and BluSpec 2 ? (grin)

They desperately need to sort out this international distribution rights garbage for it to succeed. Several years down the track,. and HDTracks is still promising sales to more than just U.S.A territories, one day.

[mayhem13]

But what if Sony only releases it for the Japanese domestic market like they did with BluSpec, and BluSpec 2 ? (grin)

They desperately need to sort out this international distribution rights garbage for it to succeed. Several years down the track,. and HDTracks is still promising sales to more than just U.S.A territories, one day.

 

Sorry Alex, I heard the only country where HiRes won't be available for download is Australia! Lol

[Paul R]

Well, since Sony Music is huge, we can hope rhat does not happen. HDTracks is far too small to argue with the big record companies. Sony Is a big record conpany. One can hope. And iTunes is still there, selling an enormous amount of music, books, and video.

 

But what if Sony only releases it for the Japanese domestic market like they did with BluSpec, and BluSpec 2 ? (grin)

They desperately need to sort out this international distribution rights garbage for it to succeed. Several years down the track,. and HDTracks is still promising sales to more than just U.S.A territories, one day.

[JJJ]

Hold your breath and start counting...

 

We're right alongside you! (Just not holding our breath)

[wappinghigh]

Can HDTracks sell into the UK? Note these Sony products are prerelease UK now... So what is the story here?

[sandyk]

HDTracks can only officially sell to U.S.A states and territories.

 

Alex

[wappinghigh]

This separate digital rights stuff between different countries is a total farce.. with the flick of a browser back button, or the blink of an eye the customer can move between a UK vs a US vs a "wherever" download store. Take a look. Different hi rez download stores are linked from the various sub "stores" of Sony (depending on what country you choose to look at within the Sony website) But does the customer really care?? They don't care what country they are actually residing. Sony is a multinational corporation for goodness sake. All the customer wants to do is visit the Sony website. And they just want to get more choice on available product (downloads) to purchase. What a complete joke. We live in a totally screwed up world ATM... so much for "free trade" LOL!

[wappinghigh]

LOL! So the German sites aren't available via the US site.. (I bet the Germans are real happy about that)

And the US sites can't sell into the UK, and the UK sites aren't available as a link on the US site..

And everyone outside these two zones doesn't get a link to anything..

 

hahahaha folks. We are all *people*. We all live and breath the same air. And listen to music the same way.. Music is the "Universal language".. We all live on the one planet...

[wgb113]

Well with the push of Sony, either HiRes content WILL expand exponentially OR the listening public will reject HiRes downloads once and for all which will subdue any future remastering for a very long time If not forever. Time will tell...I expect we'll know better in 24 months or so. Sales of DSD downloads will determine its fate.

I agree. While it's great to see them pushing I think they needed something like the iTunes Store to make it a success. I'm hoping that I'm proven wrong but as it sits at the moment the masses will ignore it. Perhaps they'll get some traction and the new leadership at Apple will start offering all of those 24/96 masters the record companies have been sending.

 

Then there's still the issue of the loudness wars which make all hi-Rez a moot point.

 

Bill

[JJJ]

... as it sits at the moment the masses will ignore it

 

The masses are ignoring 44.1kHz/16 bit CD let alone high-res.

 

BTW I would bet that Apple would love to be able to offer CD quality and that it's the record (and distribution) companies putting the brakes on this not Apple

[Paul R]

That's kind of silly isn't it? The masses buy music where it is available. Please show me where 90% of the top selling music today is available at CD res, other than on a CD. Which is not convenient and costs more.

 

Put CD quality downloads on iTunes and you will sell billions on them. Put DSD quality downloads on iTunes, and you won't sell many at all, until iPhones and iPods and iPads can play them. Then you will sell billions of DSD downloads.

 

Perhaps in iOS 7.

 

-Paul

 

The masses are ignoring 44.1kHz/16 bit CD let alone high-res.

 

BTW I would bet that Apple would love to be able to offer CD quality and that it's the record (and distribution) companies putting the brakes on this not Apple

[JJJ]

"Please show me where 90% of the top selling music is available at CD res, other than on a CD."

 

Exactly the point. Apart from a tiny percentage of the market (less than 1%?) the market for downloaded music is 256kbps. If you are part of the rapidly declining market for quality 44.1kHz / 16 bit recordings you buy the CD or scrape around for has-been re-releases of stuff that helps you reminisce about days gone by.

 

You have to take account of all the vested interests and contracts. Record companies and various players in audio distribution still have a lot invested in the conventional CD (and vinyl for that matter). They're not about to cede control and profits to the likes of Apple. So things will take time to change. This Sony announcement doesn't change anything.

 

Only a trivial, ignorable fraction of people buying music even know what DSD is. A small fraction of those have the ability to play a DSD download. Relatively few people will pay a premium for DSD (as was the case with SACD) even if they can play them on an iPhone or iPad (and why would you bother). You're just not that important for the record companies or musicians.

[JJJ]

Some statistics may well be of interest. In the UK, album sales are crashing. From 133.6m in 2008 to 100.5m in 2012. Of these, digital downloads have increased threefold over this period from 10.3m in 2008 to 30.5m in 2012. The good news is that almost 1 in 7 albums are still sold as CDs. The bad news is that the number sold is almost half what it was in 2008. Album sales in CD format fell 19% last year.

 

Where sales have blossomed is in singles. Up 6% in 2012 and 99.6% were digital downloads.

 

So (1) there's a massive shift by consumers to simply buying the tracks they like, (2) low-res digital downloads suit the vast majority of consumers buying individual tracks (otherwise their buying behaviour would be different) and a rapidly increasing proportion of those buying albums, (3) those that buy CDs because they need the CD format or, and likely fewer people, because they desire at least CD quality are in rapid decline albeit they continue to be the most important market for album sales.

[Paul R]

As I said - put CD quality, or DSD quality, or anything you like on iTunes, sell it for $0.99/track, and it will sell billions of copies. Instant acceptance of hi-res files, or DSD or XYZ. Doesn't matter.

 

The key is for Sony to convince Apple to sell files for their hardware. Apple will probably resist until they can sell hardware that takes advantage of it too.

 

-Paul

 

 

"Please show me where 90% of the top selling music is available at CD res, other than on a CD."

 

Exactly the point. Apart from a tiny percentage of the market (less than 1%?) the market for downloaded music is 256kbps. If you are part of the rapidly declining market for quality 44.1kHz / 16 bit recordings you buy the CD or scrape around for has-been re-releases of stuff that helps you reminisce about days gone by.

 

You have to take account of all the vested interests and contracts. Record companies and various players in audio distribution still have a lot invested in the conventional CD (and vinyl for that matter). They're not about to cede control and profits to the likes of Apple. So things will take time to change. This Sony announcement doesn't change anything.

 

Only a trivial, ignorable fraction of people buying music even know what DSD is. A small fraction of those have the ability to play a DSD download. Relatively few people will pay a premium for DSD (as was the case with SACD) even if they can play them on an iPhone or iPad (and why would you bother). You're just not that important for the record companies or musicians.

[wgb113]

Don't forget streaming. Pandora, Spotify, You Tube are where MP3 buyers are now moving. I think that's part of the reason we're seeing things such as this Sony announcement. They're hoping that by pushing quality that they'll not only save on their label side but their hardware side as well. After all, why not sell us the same albs again in a new format on a shiny new player?

 

Maybe that door is beginning to open?

 

Bill

[wgb113]

As I said - put CD quality, or DSD quality, or anything you like on iTunes, sell it for $0.99/track, and it will sell billions of copies. Instant acceptance of hi-res files, or DSD or XYZ. Doesn't matter.

 

The key is for Sony to convince Apple to sell files for their hardware. Apple will probably resist until they can sell hardware that takes advantage of it too.

 

-Paul

 

 

"Please show me where 90% of the top selling music is available at CD res, other than on a CD."

 

Exactly the point. Apart from a tiny percentage of the market (less than 1%?) the market for downloaded music is 256kbps. If you are part of the rapidly declining market for quality 44.1kHz / 16 bit recordings you buy the CD or scrape around for has-been re-releases of stuff that helps you reminisce about days gone by.

 

You have to take account of all the vested interests and contracts. Record companies and various players in audio distribution still have a lot invested in the conventional CD (and vinyl for that matter). They're not about to cede control and profits to the likes of Apple. So things will take time to change. This Sony announcement doesn't change anything.

 

Only a trivial, ignorable fraction of people buying music even know what DSD is. A small fraction of those have the ability to play a DSD download. Relatively few people will pay a premium for DSD (as was the case with SACD) even if they can play them on an iPhone or iPad (and why would you bother). You're just not that important for the record companies or musicians.

 

I think the more reasonable model would be: pay for the hires file for listening at home and stream the low Rez to your phone.

[Paul R]

I easily stream 24/96 to my phone now, anywhere I have cell or wifi service. That includes driving down the highway in my Jeep.

And the 16/44.1 and better files sound a lot better than Sirius XM or local FM broadcasts.

 

-Paul

 

 

I think the more reasonable model would be: pay for the hires file for listening at home and stream the low Rez to your phone.

[JJJ]

The key is for Sony to convince Apple to sell files for their hardware. Apple will probably resist until they can sell hardware that takes advantage of it too.

 

-Paul

 

Again, you miss the point. The key is to convince Sony to abandon it's entire physical disk distribution system and accelerate the takeup of digital downloads. Apple doesn't need convincing. Now, how would musicians feel if all they sold were singles and very few albums?