Sony ... announces DSD capable hardware

[Audio_ELF]

Perhaps, but what is more significant than the actual hardware is that they are from Sony who have the potential of pushing High Res recordings via their record lables.

 

When / if that happens then that may well be news. The above isn't. Back to sleep people.

 

Put it this way ... I'm more interested in Sony launching players than Pono discussed elsewhere...

[Paul R]

Yes, I agree that converting PCM to DSD is just changing the format and not adding new content.

 

However, PCM requires rather complex processing that DSD does not, and as I noted, can provide some astoundingly good sound from some DACs. I don't think that means the DAC processes PCM worse than other DACs, or processes DSD better than PCM. I think it at least implies that DSD processing can sound better than PCM processing for the exact same material.

 

-Paul

 

 

I don't believe you can start with LPCM, convert it to DSD and expect better except in the case that your chosen DAC is better at handling DSD and somehow deficient in its handling of LPCM. The conversion process can't create new content. The poster was asking if converting everything to DSD was the way to go.

[JJJ]

You're effectively arguing that LPCM still poses insurmountable structural hurdles or challenges that DSD doesn't. I guess that's a question for someone like the engineers at Theta Digital as a leading manufacturer of LPCM DACs. Could they achieve better quality were they to be processing DSD rather than LPCM? I suspect not. In any event, I wouldn't be rushing out to convert all my LPCM files to DSD...

[Fitz Music]

Don’t get too excited.

 

Sony has a way of introducing a product, then abandoning it within a year or two. I have three top-of-the line Sony SACD players in the storage closet, two of which went quirky early, and eventually stopped playing SACDs altogether. (Sony support and repair service is beyond awful.) The latest, the less ambitious XA5400, offers special functions like DSD to PCM conversion that only works with other Sony devices. (Want flexibility? Try Oppo.)

 

Corporate hubris and incestuous self-validation characterize the last two decades of the failing Sony monster. (Think Microsoft.)

 

I notice that newly announced multi-format digital player has only analog outputs. Forget the DAC of your choice. This is a late attempt to issue a mid-market device to further sequester Sony’s proprietary SACD format. Do we know that the deals Sony is making with download services will result in protection-free DSD files? Are the record companies having another go at reclaiming exclusive ownership of the music?

[Paul R]

Depends upon what you mean by "insurmountable" - throw enough money and time at something, and you can usually solve it very well.

 

The point is, DSD is fundamentally different than LPCM, and does not present many of the challenges that LPCM does. For example, LPCM requires some sophisticated filtering on the playback side that DSD does not. Of course, good filters are possible, we have many examples of that. But you can get the same quality as with the best (read expensive) LPCM filters by using DSD and a very simple filter.

 

Or to put it another way, the potential of DSD starts where some of the best LPCM processing winds up. Much more potential to be exploited.

 

-Paul

 

 

You're effectively arguing that LPCM still poses insurmountable structural hurdles or challenges that DSD doesn't. I guess that's a question for someone like the engineers at Theta Digital as a leading manufacturer of LPCM DACs. Could they achieve better quality were they to be processing DSD rather than LPCM? I suspect not. In any event, I wouldn't be rushing out to convert all my LPCM files to DSD...

[firedog]

I love this development for it's potential, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. The different corporate branches at SONY have been known to work at cross purposes, or even war with each other. So it isn't obvious that if one part of the company is producing DSD playback HW, that the other corporate departments responsible for DSD music will release the material for either download or purchase on disc.

 

We don't yet know (as Robert pointed out elsewere) if the AS agreement with Sony over DSD downloads is with Sony America or Sony Japan. If it is with Sony America, it is interesting, but a lot less significant than if it is with Sony Japan, where the control of most of the catalog is.

 

As far as upconverting PCM to DSD, I think it depends on your DAC. Apparently lots of DACs sound best when fed DSD, because thats their native format (they internally convert PCM to DSD anyway). Certainly lots of users of JRiver and HQPlayer find their best results happen when feeding their DAC with all material in DSD format. YMMV.

[One and a half]

Hmm...Yawn.

 

Player...boring. Can build better.

 

Content...same old garbage.

 

If you would have stated, in this thread, "I have heard x DSD DAC compared with y DAC for a time, but it didn't do anything for me because of a, b c, " then we have a discussion.

 

Simply being obstinate without any positive technical/objective/subjective is contempt.

 

Please, ffs, being polite here, offer some valid reasons for your armchair attitude.

[wappinghigh]

When / if that happens then that may well be news. The above isn't. Back to sleep people.

hahahaha LOL!

 

I like your attitude on this.. Your right.. like the wait on these downloads has been what? 20 years already ...

[wappinghigh]

Don’t get too excited.

 

Sony has a way of introducing a product, then abandoning it within a year or two. I have three top-of-the line Sony SACD players in the storage closet, two of which went quirky early, and eventually stopped playing SACDs altogether. (Sony support and repair service is beyond awful.) The latest, the less ambitious XA5400, offers special functions like DSD to PCM conversion that only works with other Sony devices. (Want flexibility? Try Oppo.)

 

Corporate hubris and incestuous self-validation characterize the last two decades of the failing Sony monster. (Think Microsoft.)

 

I notice that newly announced multi-format digital player has only analog outputs. Forget the DAC of your choice. This is a late attempt to issue a mid-market device to further sequester Sony’s proprietary SACD format. Do we know that the deals Sony is making with download services will result in protection-free DSD files? Are the record companies having another go at reclaiming exclusive ownership of the music?

 

Yeah good points. The proof will be in the pudding as they say.. That's why we need the manuals on these products. And we need to see how much DSD content appears on those sites. And how rapidly it appears.. When I see DSOTM in multichannel, I'll start to believe it might really happen..

[wappinghigh]

If that main device: the HAP-Z1ES HDD player could be set up as a UPnP server and the UDA-1 DAC and the HAP-S1 Audio system as players streaming files from the HAP-Z1ES.. then yes. It would prove Sony has thought this thru properly and really know where the market is heading..

 

As I said. We need to see the manuals and find out if there are any true DLNA/ UPnP capabilities of these products and what they are up too on the software and control side..

 

The first thing I thought of when I saw all three was WOW.. what if these could all be networked up like that? We'd finally have a wonderful new way of multiroom DSD and 24/192 PCM that would beat Linn (on price and file format compatability)... (and definitely Sonos on both and quality)...

 

So like I said. That's why I'll wait for the manuals..

[wappinghigh]

I love this development for it's potential, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. The different corporate branches at SONY have been known to work at cross purposes, or even war with each other. So it isn't obvious that if one part of the company is producing DSD playback HW, that the other corporate departments responsible for DSD music will release the material for either download or purchase on disc.

 

We don't yet know (as Robert pointed out elsewere) if the AS agreement with Sony over DSD downloads is with Sony America or Sony Japan. If it is with Sony America, it is interesting, but a lot less significant than if it is with Sony Japan, where the control of most of the catalog is.

 

As far as upconverting PCM to DSD, I think it depends on your DAC. Apparently lots of DACs sound best when fed DSD, because thats their native format (they internally convert PCM to DSD anyway). Certainly lots of users of JRiver and HQPlayer find their best results happen when feeding their DAC with all material in DSD format. YMMV.

 

Yep. +1. Your right as well. Great summary.

[Audio_ELF]

The UDA-1 DAC isn't a streaming device.

If that main device: the HAP-Z1ES HDD player could be set up as a UPnP server and the UDA-1 DAC and the HAP-S1 Audio system as players streaming files from the HAP-Z1ES.. then yes. It would prove Sony has thought this thru properly and really know where the market is heading..

 

As I said. We need to see the manuals and find out if there are any true DLNA/ UPnP capabilities of these products and what they are up too on the software and control side..

 

The first thing I thought of when I saw all three was WOW.. what if these could all be networked up like that? We'd finally have a wonderful new way of multiroom DSD and 24/192 PCM that would beat Linn (on price and file format compatability)... (and definitely Sonos on both and quality)...

 

So like I said. That's why I'll wait for the manuals..

[wappinghigh]

^ No your right. No ethernet port. But the others?..

[realhifi]

^ There are two DSD capable receivers ("Coming in a firmware upgrade this fall") in that list of gear as well...

 

? via attached USB ? via UPnP ? via both?? ? Multichannel as well?? Anybody know?

 

They always have a large presence at Cedia so I would imagine they will be showing all the new equipment there in a couple of weeks. I will certainly give their display a close look over for this!

[wappinghigh]

They always have a large presence at Cedia so I would imagine they will be showing all the new equipment there in a couple of weeks. I will certainly give their display a close look over for this!

 

Great!!!!!

 

Can you please report back on this thread!

[Savage]

Stereophile has a write-up of the release in NY.

They have the HAP-Z1ES listed with a price of $1999

 

Sony to Push Hi-Rez Downloads & Playback | Stereophile.com

[k-man]

What is the probability that the Playstation 4 will be a DSD-capable player? It could very well be the Trojan Horse (history repeating).

Disclaimer- I've read enough of Mr Hansen's posts to not join the DSD bandwagon.

[Savage]

What is the probability that the Playstation 4 will be a DSD-capable player? It could very well be the Trojan Horse (history repeating).

Disclaimer- I've read enough of Mr Hansen's posts to not join the DSD bandwagon.

 

I'm not following, could you expand k-man?

[k-man]

Should Sony be serious in marketing DSD to the masses, they could always use their Playstation brand i.e. what they did with Blu-ray to trump HD-DVD.

[elcorso]

- I've read enough of Mr Hansen's posts to not join the DSD bandwagon.

 

I remember my father from a Corsican popular saying: "When there is a fight in a bar, some are drunk side, but other bartender side..."

 

I could add "It's hard to swim against the current".

 

Roch

[Audio_ELF]

I remember my father from a Corsican popular saying: "When there is a fight in a bar, some are drunk side, but other bartender side..."

Is that like "there's two sides to every story" and "there's more than one way to skin a cat"?

 

Eloise

[k-man]

There's a Chinese idiom I learnt recently: "When one dog barks at a shadow, a hundred others join in."

 

I could add "Only fools rush in" but that's to be taken in jest.

[One and a half]

There's a Chinese idiom I learnt recently: "When one dog barks at a shadow, a hundred others join in."

 

I could add "Only fools rush in" but that's to be taken in jest.

 

If you stop every time a dog barks, then your road will never end. (Arabic)

[One and a half]

There's a Chinese idiom I learnt recently: "When one dog barks at a shadow, a hundred others join in."

 

I could add "Only fools rush in" but that's to be taken in jest.

 

If you stop every time a dog barks, then your road will never end. (Arabic)

[Paul R]

"Man who ignore dog barking often get bitten..." - C. Chan

 

 

There's a Chinese idiom I learnt recently: "When one dog barks at a shadow, a hundred others join in."

 

I could add "Only fools rush in" but that's to be taken in jest.