Mutec MC-3+

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

58 minutes ago, afrancois said:

Peter Lyngdorf still speaks highly of the Millennium even while he sells new stuff.

 

around 2:30 mark in the video.

 

https://youtu.be/ycoy_0oBPrE

 

Thanks. Interesting interviews. I ended up watching all 10 parts. 

[zoltan]

@Mahler and Bach on Computer This is exactly what I do, I have SOtM SMS-200 ultra, tx-USB ultra, and two Mutec MC3+USB in chain. All clocked by the REF10. All make minor but audible improvements. If I was forced to removed one item, I would probably remove the txUSB ultra then the second Mutec. Reclocking a USB signal should not even matter as the protocol is asynchronous but for some reason it does. 

@hopkinsPractically all DACs, DDCs and streamers descriptions claim the same. Immune to jitter or something like that. It just doesn't seem to happen with most. It may be true or nearly true for some but very few independent measurements are out there. Also, to my understanding, a DAC, for example claims to be immune to jitter but it is very hard to measure unless you are manufacturing it or taking it apart to an extent. I don't think even professional reviewers can do that. Once the data is converted to analogue, you would not know as there is no jitter any more as it is a digital phenomenon. You can only measure input and output jitter on DCCs easily (if you have the right equipment). So we are still largely reliant on our ears regarding the end result. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mahler and Bach on Computer]

On 10/14/2021 at 10:35 PM, zoltan said:

@Mahler and Bach on Computer This is exactly what I do, I have SOtM SMS-200 ultra, tx-USB ultra, and two Mutec MC3+USB in chain. All clocked by the REF10. All make minor but audible improvements. If I was forced to removed one item, I would probably remove the txUSB ultra then the second Mutec. Reclocking a USB signal should not even matter as the protocol is asynchronous but for some reason it does. 

@hopkinsPractically all DACs, DDCs and streamers descriptions claim the same. Immune to jitter or something like that. It just doesn't seem to happen with most. It may be true or nearly true for some but very few independent measurements are out there. Also, to my understanding, a DAC, for example claims to be immune to jitter but it is very hard to measure unless you are manufacturing it or taking it apart to an extent. I don't think even professional reviewers can do that. Once the data is converted to analogue, you would not know as there is no jitter any more as it is a digital phenomenon. You can only measure input and output jitter on DCCs easily (if you have the right equipment). So we are still largely reliant on our ears regarding the end result. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In your case, I wonder if the timing is controlled by the REF 10 due to synchronization.  However, if all three clocks are connected in sequence without REF 10, how timing is determined?

[GoldenOne]

On 10/10/2021 at 3:03 AM, zoltan said:

I read the review at Goldensound and commented there that I'm a little "worried" why he suggests against two or more Mutec units when he neither measured that set-up, nor listened to it. Forming such strong opinion without any base is very wrong and misleading in my opinion. 

I did listen to it, and did provide measurements of stacked DDCs.

I actually did a few tests with the DDCs in different orders, and also some where I fed the MC3+ with a signal and applied varying levels of jitter deliberately.

In all cases jitter pattern and level was exactly the same on the output of the final DDC regardless of what came before it.

[Nikhil]

On 10/9/2021 at 12:03 PM, Confused said:

Another very interesting set of measurements from GoldenSound, see link below.

https://goldensound.audio/2021/10/05/mutec-mc3-usb-ddc-reclocker-measurements/

 

Very interesting read.  Thanks for sharing.

 

As a Mutec MC3+ USB owner I was a little surprised at the observations on the build quality.

In comparison the boards on the Singxer SU2 look absolutely flawless.

 

 

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[Confused]

On 10/21/2021 at 9:20 AM, Nikhil said:

 

Very interesting read.  Thanks for sharing.

 

As a Mutec MC3+ USB owner I was a little surprised at the observations on the build quality.

In comparison the boards on the Singxer SU2 look absolutely flawless.

 

 

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Yes, agreed. That said, I bought my MC3+USB over six years ago now. In that time it has been continuously powered up, and has worked flawlessly. So based on my statistically insignificant sample of one, there is not too much to worry about in terms of reliability. 

[mourip]

2 hours ago, Confused said:

Yes, agreed. That said, I bought my MC3+USB over six years ago now. In that time it has been continuously powered up, and has worked flawlessly. So based on my statistically insignificant sample of one, there is not too much to worry about in terms of reliability. 

I have owned two MC3+USB for about that same amount of time. One I modified to replace the SMPS with a high quality reg board powered by an external LPS. I have never had any issues with mine and they improve my SQ, especially when used with a REF10 master clock. I do think that their tech is becoming dated and is probably surpassed by newer equipment like a Hermes DDC. 

 

To be honest I have now come to feel that USB internal boards have natured to the point where USB fixes like a DDC may no longer hold an advantage. In my case I found that the new JL Audio USB board in my Lampizator Baltic 3 to be better than a Denefrips Hermes with AES output. Just my 2.025 cents :-)

[semente]

On 10/21/2021 at 4:16 AM, GoldenOne said:

I did listen to it, and did provide measurements of stacked DDCs.

I actually did a few tests with the DDCs in different orders, and also some where I fed the MC3+ with a signal and applied varying levels of jitter deliberately.

In all cases jitter pattern and level was exactly the same on the output of the final DDC regardless of what came before it.

 

Other than jitter, is there a chance that the Mutec and other DDCs could be filtering ultrasonic noise and this be a reason for a potential audible improvement?

Did you perform any measurements with that in mind?

[Dr.J]

Greetings everyone, I’ve been deliberating about updating my Remedy reclocker with the Mutec MC3+usb, until I discovered the price of the Mutec has increased, due, from what I understand, to limited parts availability. So, before I commit to a purchase, I’m wondering if anyone can tell me how much of an improvement in SQ I would hear, going from the Remedy to the Mutec? Any and all responses appreciated. 

Thanks,

John 

[Dr.J]

P.s. are there currently any better reclockers available, better than the Mutec?

[GoldenOne]

Just now, Dr.J said:

P.s. are there currently any better reclockers available, better than the Mutec?

There are a fair few. Currently the two best I've tested are the singxer SU-6 and audio-gd di20he 

[LowMidHigh]

53 minutes ago, GoldenOne said:

There are a fair few. Currently the two best I've tested are the singxer SU-6 and audio-gd di20he 

 

Both products lack an AES input, which is find unacceptable. 

 

Thank you for sharing your measurements and well-argued opinion.

 

It's not easy to come out against hard-core numbers. Still,  throughout the years, I've discovered--against my intuition and expressed bias--that sometimes my ears tell a different story. When I chained my second MC3+USB, I expected nothing. In fact, I was hoping to ship it back for a refund. I turned the music on, and for a while got engaged with other chores, when suddenly the quality emanating from my speakers compelled me to tune in. "Wow, what it is this wonderful sound?" Was it a figment of my imagination? Possibly. However, you wouldn't pry that chain out of my cold dead fingers. I own a 3rd one, and I couldn't detect much of a difference if any. Held on to it for a different application. 

[Dr.J]

My streamer has an AES output, would be a nice feature if the reclocker had this input. I know Mutec is working on a new model; perhaps it’s best to wait until its release? The only down side is that with parts shortages, everything is skyrocketing price wise. 

[LowMidHigh]

5 minutes ago, Dr.J said:

My streamer has an AES output, would be a nice feature if the reclocker had this input. I know Mutec is working on a new model; perhaps it’s best to wait until its release? The only down side is that with parts shortages, everything is skyrocketing price wise. 

If you're waiting for new models, then you're implicitly predicting a return to normal. For each their own, but in my book, some electronics will soon be out of stock for God knows how long. 

[Dr.J]

What, then, at this time, is the most practical purchase option, which is the best bang for the buck? 

[GoldenOne]

14 hours ago, LowMidHigh said:

 

Both products lack an AES input, which is find unacceptable. 

 

Thank you for sharing your measurements and well-argued opinion.

 

It's not easy to come out against hard-core numbers. Still,  throughout the years, I've discovered--against my intuition and expressed bias--that sometimes my ears tell a different story. When I chained my second MC3+USB, I expected nothing. In fact, I was hoping to ship it back for a refund. I turned the music on, and for a while got engaged with other chores, when suddenly the quality emanating from my speakers compelled me to tune in. "Wow, what it is this wonderful sound?" Was it a figment of my imagination? Possibly. However, you wouldn't pry that chain out of my cold dead fingers. I own a 3rd one, and I couldn't detect much of a difference if any. Held on to it for a different application. 

If an AES input is required then the Denafrips Gaia would be my recommendation though its quite a bit pricier than the mc3+. 

 

It sort of depends on use case. The mc3+ has a lot of features that other ddcs do not and so if you DO need those features then it's one of the ideal options. But for most people looking for a DDC that they'll likely be connecting via USB, those features won't be needed

[Dr.J]

If I purchase a Singxer SU-6 for my Aries G1 streamer, will I be missing anything if I choose to use a USB2 cable, instead of a USB3 cable? 

[GoldenOne]

1 hour ago, Dr.J said:

If I purchase a Singxer SU-6 for my Aries G1 streamer, will I be missing anything if I choose to use a USB2 cable, instead of a USB3 cable? 

The singxer (and the vast majority of audio devices) are usb 2 so no worry. 

 

The singxer has a usb 2.0 type b connector

[Dr.J]

Very good, thank you!

[mitch751]

Does we need to use 2 pieces of Mutec MC3+ (44.1 and 48) to connect with dCS Rossini or Network Bridge ?

 

I have struggled for more than a year and finally find a solution to use ONLY piece of MC3+USB, however need the following setup :

 

1. Roon Core - to Group the Streamer and dCS NB or Rossini dac in one group
2. Connect one BNC cable between Mutec MC3’s WordClock output and dCS’s WordClock IN
3. USB cable from a Streamer to MC3’s USB In
4. Set Mutec MC3 Mode as reclocker + Extern or Intern，Reference as USB (with first three LEDS ON)

 

 

Play song in Roon, and the Sample Rate should able to change automatically.

 

[Nikhil]

26 minutes ago, mitch751 said:

Does we need to use 2 pieces of Mutec MC3+ (44.1 and 48) to connect with dCS Rossini or Network Bridge ?

 

One MC-3+ USB should be good (if you meant to ask if you need one clock for each frequency)

Mutec uses Direct Digital Synthesis (DDS) technology which does not use base clocks.  DDS can synthesize any frequency.

 

 

 

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[mitch751]

16 hours ago, Nikhil said:

 

One MC-3+ USB should be good (if you meant to ask if you need one clock for each frequency)

Mutec uses Direct Digital Synthesis (DDS) technology which does not use base clocks.  DDS can synthesize any frequency.

 

 

 

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The following received from Mutec :

 

"You need for this setup two of your MC3+ USB connected to the Unit. One set as 44.1KHz and the other Unit in 48KHz to feed the dCS Rossini with a word clock signal. But I think its better to use the whole Mutec Set in reclocking modus and bring the digital signal reclocked into the dCS.

 

If you want to use the Clocks you need to set to extern an 1-10M set one MC3+USB to 44.1 and the other to 48

 

In reclocking mode the sampling frequency will change automatically with the source sampling frequency. But when you use only the clocks you need to set it up by hand in front of the MC3+ USB on the clock out. If you want as example 192 Kfz you need to get both lamps on the 48 and 88.2 KHz

 

Tom Porcell

MUTEC Product Specialist and Sales"

[Nikhil]

 

How do you connect two Mutecs so that one gets the 44.1 signal and the other the 48 signal? 

My thinking was that a single Mutec can switch frequencies on the fly as the files come in from the server.

 

Sorry if I am not able to understand the original question.  

Do you have one getting an audio signal from a video source and the other from an audio server?

 

 

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[mitch751]

21 hours ago, Nikhil said:

 

How do you connect two Mutecs so that one gets the 44.1 signal and the other the 48 signal? 

My thinking was that a single Mutec can switch frequencies on the fly as the files come in from the server.

 

Sorry if I am not able to understand the original question.  

Do you have one getting an audio signal from a video source and the other from an audio server?

 

 

.

Mutec MC3+ USB can be a reclocker (the sampling rate can auto change according to the signal in) or a Word Clock distributor , however, as a Word clock distributor it can't, that's why people said needed two MC3+ for 44.1 / 48 without manually change. There are earlier posts answer your questions above.

 

I recently bought a dCS Rossini Player Apex, and have chance to play around, finally, I found a way but need Roon to add extra USB output (in a Group with Rossini), then Rossini can auto change the word clock in (sample rate) accordingly.

[Mahler and Bach on Computer]

I bought a used USB 3+, my second.  I recalled I upgraded the firmware of my older one, through Mac.  But I went to Mutec website for download and only found the version with PC.  So my question is that we can only upgrade the firmware using PC?  
 

what is the latest version of firmware?

 

Thank you!