Mutec MC-3+

[rickca]

3 hours ago, julian.david said:

As a consequence it has unfortunately been inevitable to raise prices a little bit

A bit?  Wow, now it's $4K.  

[noshortcuts]

On 12/18/2018 at 6:20 AM, rickca said:

A bit?  Wow, now it's $4K.  

Can't believe nobody ever responded in over a year. Well, it may have been 4k at that time. IDK. It is $1200 now. Way overpriced. But... does anybody care anymore. I guess not.

[LowMidHigh]

1 hour ago, noshortcuts said:

Can't believe nobody ever responded in over a year. Well, it may have been 4k at that time. IDK. It is $1200 now. Way overpriced. But... does anybody care anymore. I guess not.

 

4k is for the REF10. 

$1,200 is $50 more for the MC3USB before Mutec switched distributors. 

 

"Overpriced" implies a comparable equivalence in a lower price point. Is there one? 

 

You may suggest it's not worth the expenditure. I wouldn't have a quarrel with you. It's totally subjective. Moreover, I'd say that a high-end streamer + a good switch would give you an amazing sound; but adding a cascade of MC3USB + REF10 will enchant you. Is the incrementally elevated experience worth $7,500? For each their own. 

 

Happy tunes! 

[mourip]

5 hours ago, noshortcuts said:

Can't believe nobody ever responded in over a year. Well, it may have been 4k at that time. IDK. It is $1200 now. Way overpriced. But... does anybody care anymore. I guess not.

 

There is definitely a price/value curve for audiophile equipment. It starts off very steep with big increases in SQ for relatively small increases in expense. After a while the curve levels out to being very flat. Big bucks for small changes and lots of bling-laden cosmetics. At that point it becomes very subjective and only you can determine if the price is worth it.

 

The Mutec +3 USB is on the steep part of the curve: a big increase in SQ and value for a relatively(in the audiophile world) modest increase in cost. The REF10 lives where the curve starts to flatten. If you can afford it and enjoy true refinement in tonality and realism then it is still a good value.

 

I think that I can safely say that if you can find comparable equipment of equal or better quality at a lower price point we would all be interested.

[Confused]

For what it's worth, I think the Mutec MC3+USB has given me the best "bang for buck" in terms of a sound quality hike versus any audio kit I have bought for a very long time.  Excellent, no nonsense kit.

[noshortcuts]

Glad to have woken this thread up. LOL.

[Marcofrancesco]

I have had a Mutec MC3 + and a Schiit Eitr

 

In my experience Volumio is always better than Windows (full optimized)

 

In my experience I2S connection is always better than usb 

 

So I sell pc and ddc and bought allo Sparky sbc with allo Digione Signature 

 

you pay 350$ (total included case) and you have far better quality than a Mutec MC3+ (800$) with a PC (xxx $) 

 

 

i bought DigiOne Signature because before I had DigiOne. And even the first DigiOne (100$) in better than a pc with a Schiit Eitr 

 

So my start point was the right one. But I had to spent money on Windows and usb based systems to realize what I had before 

[justubes]

How about if you dont use usb and connect mc3+usb using AES or SPDIF?

 

Is it better?

 

I2S is probably the better of all connectiins.

[Marcofrancesco]

12 minutes ago, justubes said:

How about if you dont use usb and connect mc3+usb using AES or SPDIF?

 

Is it better?

 

I2S is probably the better of all connectiins.

I don’t know because I use computer transport. 

 

If if you have a pc with other outputs than usb probably you have yet a sound card / Reclocker Inside your pc. 

 

For me raspberry (or Sparky ) > Volumio $ I2S > DigiOne Signature is also better than 

 

micro pc > Wtfplay > usb > mutec 

 

[LowMidHigh]

17 minutes ago, justubes said:

How about if you dont use usb and connect mc3+usb using AES or SPDIF?

 

Is it better?

 

I2S is probably the better of all connectiins.

 

I tried the MC+3 USB off my computer and wasn't too impressed. 

 

Currently, it's AES from my streamer into the MC3+. Being balanced, it's probably the best transmission protocol, with SPDIF over BNC being a second runner.

 

I2S is better on paper, but it's not a standard protocol. That alone can pose major issues. Further,  Mutec doesn't support it all. 

 

 

 

[TubeLover]

I could use some quick help from MC3+USB owners. I'm trying to troubleshoot some system problems with my setup. I use the MC3+USB to interface between my MicroRendu and my Modwright Elyse DAC and convert the signal from USB to SPDIF. 

 

I have had this same setup in place for a couple years. There are a series of lights that I see on the Mutec which indicate when music is being routed it and passed onto the DAC. I'm suddenly not seeing those lights, and, while everything else in the system appears to be working perfectly, I'm getting no actual sound. 

 

I'm relatively sure the issue is not the Mutec, but all of the tests of the MicroRendu, so far, indicate that it is working fine. Where I live we have fairly common power blips where poer drops for a minute or less. I'm concerned that it is possible that one of these may have caused the setup of the unit to be altered. It's been a very long time since I set it up for my system. I would appreciate any information on what the proper settings for my use of it as a USB to SPDIF converter are, just so I can verify all is well in that regard. Thanks in advance,

 

JC 

[6aardvark9]

1 hour ago, TubeLover said:

I could use some quick help from MC3+USB owners. I'm trying to troubleshoot some system problems with my setup. I use the MC3+USB to interface between my MicroRendu and my Modwright Elyse DAC and convert the signal from USB to SPDIF. 

 

I have had this same setup in place for a couple years. There are a series of lights that I see on the Mutec which indicate when music is being routed it and passed onto the DAC. I'm suddenly not seeing those lights, and, while everything else in the system appears to be working perfectly, I'm getting no actual sound. 

 

I'm relatively sure the issue is not the Mutec, but all of the tests of the MicroRendu, so far, indicate that it is working fine. Where I live we have fairly common power blips where poer drops for a minute or less. I'm concerned that it is possible that one of these may have caused the setup of the unit to be altered. It's been a very long time since I set it up for my system. I would appreciate any information on what the proper settings for my use of it as a USB to SPDIF converter are, just so I can verify all is well in that regard. Thanks in advance,

 

JC 

 

You mean the 'Lock' and "Audio' lights in the 'Status' column?

[TubeLover]

10 hours ago, 6aardvark9 said:

 

You mean the 'Lock' and "Audio' lights in the 'Status' column?

I just located the manual online, and can take it from there on how to make sure it is configured properly. . Thanks.

 

JC

[pat_kwok]

Not sure whether there are anyone using the Mutec MC3+USB with the RME ADI-2 DAC FS?

Any comments on this combination?

[mourip]

Have any of you successfully dimmed the LEDs on the M3USB front panel using the instructions from the manual which require you to push the two front buttons at the same time?

 

I have tried this several times but what always happens is that I just end up changing the settings. Either perfect timing is required or this function just does not work. As far as I know I am at the most recent(not very) firmware version.

 

BTW. The M3USB is still one of the best audio purchases I have ever made.

 

Thanks!

Paul

[m5sime]

The process turns off most of the LED’s and I have been able to do it with mine. I recall that I then forget how to turn them back on! Needed as I use mine as a source switcher between a Sonos (Spdif) streamer that I just always come back to for ease of use and then a roon based more complicated USB streamer 

 

Glad you love your unit. Out of interest - how do you feed your DAC from the MUTEC? AES?

 

 

[LowMidHigh]

16 minutes ago, mourip said:

Have any of you successfully dimmed the LEDs on the M3USB front panel using the instructions from the manual which require you to push the two front buttons at the same time?

 

I have tried this several times but what always happens is that I just end up changing the settings. Either perfect timing is required or this function just does not work. As far as I know I am at the most recent(not very) firmware version.

 

BTW. The M3USB is still one of the best audio purchases I have ever made.

 

Thanks!

Paul

 

Hi Paul,

 

I've successfully dimmed and lit them on many a time. See a photo of my cascade in a "stealth mode."

 

From my experience, the user guide isn't accurate in that regard. It actually takes pressing buttons in sequence not simultaneously. 

Now, I'm away from my system and I haven't executed the sequence for a while, so I may be misleading you. But as far as I recall, you press one of the buttons, and while keeping it down, you press the other button. It doesn't take long to get the hang of it.

 

BTW, I currently use AES all throughout. I used a 2 meter SPDIF cable to feed the first MC3+USB when my steamer was DigiOne, and the EMI from my other gear killed the sound. Only shortening the cable resolved the issue.

 

 

[mourip]

42 minutes ago, LowMidHigh said:

 

Hi Paul,

 

I've successfully dimmed and lit them on many a time. See a photo of my cascade in a "stealth mode."

 

From my experience, the user guide isn't accurate in that regard. It actually takes pressing buttons in sequence not simultaneously. 

Now, I'm away from my system and I haven't executed the sequence for a while, so I may be misleading you. But as far as I recall, you press one of the buttons, and while keeping it down, you press the other button. It doesn't take long to get the hang of it.

 

BTW, I currently use AES all throughout. I used a 2 meter SPDIF cable to feed the first MC3+USB when my steamer was DigiOne, and the EMI from my other gear killed the sound. Only shortening the cable resolved the issue.

 

 

 

Thanks a lot. That worked! I wondered if there was a "trick".

 

I am sure that in a Pro environment nobody cares about a few more LEDs but at home with the room lights off at night there is still enough light to cast shadows!  With your 3 units you could have Disco parties 🙂

 

Very clean looking system there. I am limited to USB from my Roon endpoint to my M3USB and use AES out to my DAC. I have the Ref10 also.

 

[WAM]

Considered the Mutec for a while. But no dealers around, nobody in the neighbourhood familiar with this kind of devices, not the faintest idea how such a device would work out in my set-up(s). Pulled the trigger last week, and ordered one. Integrated it in my head-fi-station. Holy cow... So much more speed, detail, etc.

 

Moved the Mutec to our main system, same thingy. Just ordered another one.

 

The postings in this thread were helpful, to put it mildly, thanks and cheers guys! 🍺

 

 

[Confused]

43 minutes ago, WAM said:

Considered the Mutec for a while. But no dealers around, nobody in the neighbourhood familiar with this kind of devices, not the faintest idea how such a device would work out in my set-up(s). Pulled the trigger last week, and ordered one. Integrated it in my head-fi-station. Holy cow... So much more speed, detail, etc.

 

Moved the Mutec to our main system, same thingy. Just ordered another one.

 

The postings in this thread were helpful, to put it mildly, thanks and cheers guys! 🍺

 

 

Out of interest, what DAC’s are you using in the respective systems?

[WAM]

Primare DAC 30, main system, MF MX-DAC/sBooster head-fi-station.

[hellrider77]

I would like some opinions from you guys. 

I currently use an Aurender X100L via USB into Yamaha CD-S3000. the problem is that Yamaha does not work properly in linux (requires proprietary steinberg drivers which are only available for Window and iOS) so I am stuck with DSD64 max via DoP but experience occasional annoying drops (the higher the resolution, the more frequent chirps and drops are). Otherwise, the combo SQ is hard to beat so I am not planning to upgrade my DAC anytime soon. 

 

I am considering including an MC3+ USB, between the Aurender and Yamaha but reading MC3 manual and this thread got me really confused.

The typical uscase scenario would be:

 

Aurender ->USB-> Mutec ->COAX-> Yamaha

What I would like to achieve is to leave all resolutions untouched and let the MC3+ convert only DSD to PCM 174.6Khz (or 88.2, depending on how my dac will behave)

 

It is not yet clear to me whether such scenario is possible and, most important, whether the SQ will have to suffer or not (regardless resampling)

 

Also, Yamaha allows for 7 step DPLL bandwidth settings for sync between internal ES9018 DPLL clock signals and the input clock signal (applies to USB, COAX and Optical).

 

Quoting from Yamaha CD-S3000 user manual: 

 

 

I really don't know how to read this in the eventuality I would get the MC3+.

 

Your help is much appreciated.

 

Sorin

 

[m5sime]

24 minutes ago, hellrider77 said:

I would like some opinions from you guys. 

I currently use an Aurender X100L via USB into Yamaha CD-S3000. the problem is that Yamaha does not work properly in linux (requires proprietary steinberg drivers which are only available for Window and iOS) so I am stuck with DSD64 max via DoP but experience occasional annoying drops (the higher the resolution, the more frequent chirps and drops are). Otherwise, the combo SQ is hard to beat so I am not planning to upgrade my DAC anytime soon. 

 

I am considering including an MC3+ USB, between the Aurender and Yamaha but reading MC3 manual and this thread got me really confused.

The typical uscase scenario would be:

 

Aurender ->USB-> Mutec ->COAX-> Yamaha

What I would like to achieve is to leave all resolutions untouched and let the MC3+ convert only DSD to PCM 174.6Khz (or 88.2, depending on how my dac will behave)

 

It is not yet clear to me whether such scenario is possible and, most important, whether the SQ will have to suffer or not (regardless resampling)

 

Also, Yamaha allows for 7 step DPLL bandwidth settings for sync between internal ES9018 DPLL clock signals and the input clock signal (applies to USB, COAX and Optical).

 

Quoting from Yamaha CD-S3000 user manual: 

 

 

I really don't know how to read this in the eventuality I would get the MC3+.

 

Your help is much appreciated.

 

Sorin

 

Hi - I have just be of these and confess to having not played with DSD that much. If I have it would have been over DoP from my Linux usb streamer (rendu) to my Mutec and via AES into my Mytek dac. 
 

I do not think the Mytek will do conversion. It is a pure reclocker and physical electrical conversion from usb to spdif or aes. 
 

I know that my streamer ‘see’s’ the Mutec instead of the DAC as I guess it is talking to the USB chip in the Mutec. This might help your situation. 
 

re your DAC and DPLL.. you could set that to the most high quality setting as the output of the Mutec is very accurate. Have you tried changing this setting with the Aurender and see if the pops go away? I would have thought the Aurender is a decently clocked source 

 

[hellrider77]

Thanks @m5sime

 

The Mutec MC3+ literature says it can convert DSD to PCM.

 

Regarding Aurender, in my particular case it is not Aurender's fault, but Yamaha's .

Yamaha USB receiver uses some sort of proprietary chip (used in heir professional studio gear, exactly the infamous Steinberg UR22 interface) and is not meant to be used outside Windows and Mac universe. They are also reluctant into publishing anything that would allow others to build a proper linux driver for it, also it is a legacy dac that was launched in 2011 or 2012 so, when it comes to USB receiver, it is already ancient technology. In Windows and Mac, after installing the Steinberg drivers it works flawless...

 

Changing DPLL settings did not help with Aurender as the problem is not the clock but the generic linux driver that is not able to communicate properly with Yamaha's DSP. 

 

Aurender is a great machine and it easily outperformed, in terms of SQ, all other computer based servers I have tried over the years (NUC, Daphile, rpi, Squeezelite, Jriver, linear supplies, the whole "joy")

[m5sime]

23 minutes ago, hellrider77 said:

Thanks @m5sime

 

The Mutec MC3+ literature says it can convert DSD to PCM.

 

Regarding Aurender, in my particular case it is not Aurender's fault, but Yamaha's .

Yamaha USB receiver uses some sort of proprietary chip (used in heir professional studio gear, exactly the infamous Steinberg UR22 interface) and is not meant to be used outside Windows and Mac universe. They are also reluctant into publishing anything that would allow others to build a proper linux driver for it, also it is a legacy dac that was launched in 2011 or 2012 so, when it comes to USB receiver, it is already ancient technology. In Windows and Mac, after installing the Steinberg drivers it works flawless...

 

Changing DPLL settings did not help with Aurender as the problem is not the clock but the generic linux driver that is not able to communicate properly with Yamaha's DSP. 

 

Aurender is a great machine and it easily outperformed, in terms of SQ, all other computer based servers I have tried over the years (NUC, Daphile, rpi, Squeezelite, Jriver, linear supplies, the whole "joy")

 

I borrowed my Mutec from a dealer in the UK and played with it to see if the expense improved the SQ enough.. I guess this is the only route to see if this really adds value on SQ and also improves your ability with DSD. I ironically still use my Sonos streamer most of the time as it is server less and just works.. Despite paying for Roon. Having a Roon Rock on a mini PC, a MicroRenu and linear PSU. I find it all a bit of a faff. The Roon chain does sound better. I just need to crack the simplicity part. Plus I have no local music stored (well I do, but dont use it)..