Jump to content

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

11 minutes ago, Fyper said:

Not sure I understand this: if an external clock is used, then no work is required from the input section of the DAC - PLL, that work is done by the external clock.

 

Hope that helps: 

"With that said, let’s be clear that there’s plenty of talk — both marketing and research driven — on whether external clocks can actually improve the sound of converters, or if converters sound better when they’re running on their 

internal clocks. So far, the best discussions I’ve seen on the topic are in several whitepapers that are downloadable from the publications page of Grimm Audio’s [Tape Op #75] website <grimmaudio.com>. These papers mirror the conversations I’ve had with several leading ADC and DAC designers. Here’s my greatly simplified paraphrase:

To synchronize to an external reference signal, a converter typically utilizes a PLL circuit controlling an internal oscillator. Compromises exist in choosing a PLL design that favors the internal oscillator or the external reference. A converter with a “slow” narrowband PLL mated to a low-jitter internal oscillator won’t change much in sound between running off its internal clock or a high-quality external one. A converter with a “fast” wideband PLL, which is often employed to reduce the jitter of the paired internal oscillator, can sound better with a high-quality external clock. On the other hand, a converter with a “fast” PLL mated to a low-jitter oscillator might actually sound worse when running off an external reference that exhibits more jitter than the internal oscillator. And a converter with a “slow” PLL driving a suboptimal internal oscillator will always sound bad, no matter the reference.

Conclusion: A “slow” PLL converter, good or bad, won’t sound any better with an external clock. But a high-quality external clock can improve the performance of a “fast” PLL converter. Moreover, an external clock with lower close-in phase noise (narrowband jitter at frequencies close to the carrier frequency) has a better chance of improving the sound of a “fast” PLL converter. 

All that is a long-winded way of saying that the MC-3+ Smart Clock is a great choice for a master clock because it exhibits exemplary ultra- low-jitter performance — especially in regards to close-in phase noise — due to MUTEC’s 1G-Clock Technology, a variation on the Direct Digital Synthesizer (DDS) method of generating clock signals from a fixed-frequency reference clock."

source: https://www.mutec-net.com/downloads/pdf/MUTEC_press_03-2015-1_ED.pdf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/26/2017 at 5:19 AM, One and a half said:

 

The MC-3+USB's LEDs can be switch off in one go, if you wish.

Press the Menu + Select buttons together, and only the Power and lock LED will light up.

 

Yes, that's true. Although I do like the light show when everything else is off. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

" A converter with a “slow” narrowband PLL mated to a low-jitter internal oscillator won’t change much in sound between running off its internal clock or a high-quality external one. A converter with a “fast” wideband PLL, which is often employed to reduce the jitter of the paired internal oscillator, can sound better with a high-quality external clock. On the other hand, a converter with a “fast” PLL mated to a low-jitter oscillator might actually sound worse when running off an external reference that exhibits more jitter than the internal oscillator. "

 

Thats the point... and why I thought the MC3USB was the answer to dealing with all that crap... no doubt I'm sure a few hardy souls will pony up for the new clock... but to me, I'm thinking why? Way too many variables to take into account and it skews the cost to benefit ratio... at $1,100 the MC3 is akin to a sore penis.. you can't beat it. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

New visual identity for mutec


"MUTEC’s new visual identity also marks an important step for the company, which is now confirming a stronger focus on the hi-fi consumer audio market, reflecting the success of the MC-3+ Smart Clock USB with MUTEC’s sophisticated 1G-Clock and REVIVE Re-Clocking technologies. The company has new products in the works, which will be even better suited to the consumer market." ( in audioxpress )
 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

May be there is a cut down audiophile product announcement with a new home audio friendly name plate coming......

Thanks for the post Lerouge ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello,

I'd appreciate it if anybody could summarize the differences between MC-3+ with/and/without USB. 

Obviously one has a USB input and the other does not. It also seems the USB model can get updates through USB. Does that mean the other model gets no updates? That's as far as I've got. So any other differences summarized would be appreciated. Thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I am not sure if this topic has been covered before but I can’t find any by the search function.

 

I would like to understand the implementation of DoP-to-PCM conversion within Mutec MC3+USB.  Specifically, is there any boost gain (typically +6db) applied to the DSD such that PCM output will sound equally loud as CD equivalent version?    I understand +6dB gain is usually applied for software based conversion such as the one in Audirvana+.

 

Besides, is there any anti-alias filter applied for the conversion, at what frequency?   Is it a linear phase or minimum phase filter?

Edited by kevint
reformatted

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/05/2017 at 4:52 AM, kevint said:

 

I am not sure if this topic has been covered before but I can’t find any by the search function.

 

I would like to understand the implementation of DoP-to-PCM conversion within Mutec MC3+USB.  Specifically, is there any boost gain (typically +6db) applied to the DSD such that PCM output will sound equally loud as CD equivalent version?    I understand +6dB gain is usually applied for software based conversion such as the one in Audirvana+.

 

Besides, is there any anti-alias filter applied for the conversion, at what frequency?   Is it a linear phase or minimum phase filter?

 

Hi Kevin,

 

I'll try to get back to you with some background information on the conversion. However, I'm just about to leave for High End in Munich, so it might be a few days. Hope you understand!

 

Julian


MUTEC GmbH

Marketing Associate

Email [email protected]

Web www.mutec-net.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello, I'm new to this long thread and have managed the first 20 pages +/-. I  don't think my question has been covered a ton (hoping). Most people buy this device to improve USB. I've managed to avoid USB. I know it works with other inputs besides USB but it's hard to find reviews in those cases. So the question is: Does it tend to make a noticeable improvement on other inputs besides USB?

I'm considering putting this in a chain between Nativ Vita (arriving tomorrow and has several available outputs) and Schiit Yggy (AES is preferred/likely input). 

Thanks for any input!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since this thread is about the USB version I'm not sure what your question is.. you may wanna look up threads that talk about the non USB version..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Miko said:

Since this thread is about the USB version I'm not sure what your question is.. you may wanna look up threads that talk about the non USB version..

I'll try to clarify and hopefully I'm not completely off base: The USB version is improved in different ways besides having a USB input and it does have several other inputs. So I assume some people use the other inputs. I'm just having trouble finding impressions from those people to help me determine if the device has noticeable improvements with other inputs besides USB. I'd guess it does but am looking for those who have tried. I would think some people using USB also have other devices attached (eg., CD players, etc). So maybe even those using USB have some insight about using other inputs besides USB.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am using a Mutec MC-3+ USB in my chain with Yggy (AES). I have enjoyed using the Mutec and have no regrets.The Mutec is a very nice audio swiss army knife. Another potential item to look at with Yggy is RedNet  with Dante AOIP - I'm using a D16 AES.  Of the dozen or so Yggy owners I've conversed with I can't think of one that prefers the USB implementation over AES. Not saying USB does not sound good on the Yggy. It does. AES just sounds better to my ears.


Digital System: Cybershaft 10MHz OCXO clock premium>Antelope Liveclock>RedNet D16>AES Cable>Mutec MC-3+ USB​>AES Cable>Schiit Yggy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had the chance to compare both version in my chain using AES input. There is a clear winner: the USB version.

As the MC-3+ USB has in adddtion to the USB section better psu sections, the result is not without cause, I guess.

Strong recommendation to try the USB version even in case you don't use the USB input.

Ulli

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, iefbo said:

Problem is that the USB version does not have a coax SPDIF input

 

But a BNC S/P-DIF input. You just need an adapter or a Cinch->BNC cable.

Edited by coogee.de

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, coogee.de said:

But a BNC S/P-DIF input. You just need an adapter or a Cinch->BNC cable.

 

Sonic craft had some really nice bnc furutech ends for sale. I bought one to put on my kimber Spdif cable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 22. September 2016 at 8:55 AM, coogee.de said:

Yes, I will sell the 2nd Mutec and will use the money to buy the Mutec 10 MHz clock module when it is available.

 

Hi Cogee,

 

I have posted some technical details on Mutec's REF 10 you might find helpful:

 

Take care

Thomas


DIY coax tractrix horn system 2 corner subwoofer /// 6 full digital amplifier D802 floating PSU 12V battery & caps/filter /// Active crossover @ Acourate Convolver & room [email protected] /// General 2 PC setup: floating PSU picoless battery & caps/filter powered Bicker DC160W: PC1(Player) - individual stripped MS RamOS with JPlay /// PC2: Server 2016 RamOS - AO 2.0b5 - Acourate Convolver - online convolving & crossover /// Chain: PC1 - USB - F-1 - SPdif coax - Mutec MC3.1+ USB - SPdif coax - FireFace UCX floating PSU 12V battery & caps/filter - USB - PC2 - FireFace UCX - Adat LWL - Mutec MC-4 - 3 x SPdif coax - D802 Low/ D802 Middle / D802 High - 2 Stereo Lab KWH250 with BMS 4590 plus 2 modified corner subwoofer Abacus ABS210

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, coogee.de said:

But a BNC S/P-DIF input. You just need an adapter or a Cinch->BNC cable.

The MC3+USB does actually come with a S/PDIFcoax to BNC adaptor.  It is a very cheap and basic item, cable purists would not like it!  I run a CD player digital out to the Mutec and it works fine, this only gets used very occasionally, I think if it was my main source I would get something a little nicer.


Windows 10 PC, Roon, HQPlayer, SOtM sMS-200Ultra, tX-USBultra, Paul Hynes SR4 (x2), Mutec REF10, Mutec MC3+USB, Devialet 1000Pro, KEF Blade.  Plus Pro-Ject Signature 12 TT for playing my 'legacy' vinyl collection.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Other example : "Canare". They make very good BNC to RCA cables which scrupulously meets the 75 ohm standards. No need to pay more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

all good idea's ... thanks

 

still wonder whether the MC3 USB could lift a streamer (squeezebox classic to name a convenient example) to the level of a high end CD player ... or whether it is better to invest in a new streamer ...

 

I know it can not be answered since it is very subjective and the starting point will be different for everyone ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...