Mutec MC-3+

[accwai]

Hi, for those with cascaded MC-3+ or MC3+-USB, what length of cable do you use between units? I'm planning to stack the units and have a 3" AES/EBU in between. Any reason it needs to be longer than that?

[One and a half]

Hi, for those with cascaded MC-3+ or MC3+-USB, what length of cable do you use between units? I'm planning to stack the units and have a 3" AES/EBU in between. Any reason it needs to be longer than that?

 

An Xlr connector is already 2.7in. Allowing for termination and bending radius the cable length would need to be 9 in minimum. Nearest off the shelf is 12in or 30cm.

[accwai]

An Xlr connector is already 2.7in. Allowing for termination and bending radius the cable length would need to be 9 in minimum. Nearest off the shelf is 12in or 30cm.

 

I'm starting to make some changes to my system which would change the physical layout quite a bit. That requires significant alteration to the length of a number of existing cables. I'm think about having this little guy tag along in that cable order. But I'll talk to the company about bending radius. Thanks.

[One and a half]

I'm starting to make some changes to my system which would change the physical layout quite a bit. That requires significant alteration to the length of a number of existing cables. I'm think about having this little guy tag along in that cable order. But I'll talk to the company about bending radius. Thanks.

 

As an alternative, using an unbalanced BNC 75 Ohm cable has also brought good results. It's a short distance.

The MC's do get warm, if you have the room, side by side stacking is an alternative if ventilation is a problem.

[octaviars]

How much power does the Mutec draw on it`s USB input when that is connected? I have a microRendu connected and it gets rather hot when the Mutec is on, with USB directly to my Devialet the microRendu is warm but not hot. I use a iFi 9V PSU so that does not make things better, my plan is to change PSU to a 7V in the future.

[accwai]

[...] The MC's do get warm, if you have the room, side by side stacking is an alternative if ventilation is a problem.

 

Hmm... I'm rather low on space. Side by side can be a problem. May need an extra shelf. Thanks for the heads up.

[jelt2359]

Just bought my 3+ USB. My dealer did mention that he will be exhibiting the Ref10 together with the 3+ USB at RMAF, which is in October. Looking forward to it.

[gldgate]

Hey Julian - what's going on with the firmware update? It's been a while.

[julian.david]

Hey Julian - what's going on with the firmware update? It's been a while.

 

Hi there,

 

We're currently beta-testing the new firmware and the update process with several users. The feedback is very good so far and confirms our expectations with respect to the improvements in sound quality. It looks like the update will be ready for release in July and we can't wait to share it with you.

 

Julian

[One and a half]

Hi there,

 

We're currently beta-testing the new firmware and the update process with several users. The feedback is very good so far and confirms our expectations with respect to the improvements in sound quality. It looks like the update will be ready for release in July and we can't wait to share it with you.

 

Julian

 

Hey that's really cool, tomorrow is July and DSD512 is also a nice bonus.

[gldgate]

Hi there,

 

We're currently beta-testing the new firmware and the update process with several users. The feedback is very good so far and confirms our expectations with respect to the improvements in sound quality. It looks like the update will be ready for release in July and we can't wait to share it with you.

 

Julian

 

Thanks for the update Julian. Really appreciate it.

[Dev]

Hey that's really cool, tomorrow is July and DSD512 is also a nice bonus.

 

Just curious - firmware update will support DSD512 ? At what pcm sample rate conversion ?

[One and a half]

Just curious - firmware update will support DSD512 ? At what pcm sample rate conversion ?

 

DSD256 was bait, but the fish did not bite. DSD256 is it for now even with the new firmware. I'm not sure what the intermediate PCM conversion is, since re-clocking DSD is just about impossible with the current MC series, or DSD is passed through a low pass filter to straight to I2s, dunno. Whatever the method, DSD256 or 128 to AES3 176.4 is very good indeed.

[One and a half]

That's DSD512 was the bait...

[Dev]

That's DSD512 was the bait...

 

 

Understood but I am trying to understand whats the point moving to 512 ? AES is limited to 192k and there is not a single native 512 content available. The only option is to up-sampling it in the s/w (like HQP). Then the Mutec would be able to re-clock DSD which means it has to down-sample to max 192k. So you up-sample and then finally down-sample in the end. Why need this jugglery ?

[One and a half]

Understood but I am trying to understand whats the point moving to 512 ? AES is limited to 192k and there is not a single native 512 content available. The only option is to up-sampling it in the s/w (like HQP). Then the Mutec would be able to re-clock DSD which means it has to down-sample to max 192k. So you up-sample and then finally down-sample in the end. Why need this jugglery ?

 

Even if the source is Redbook, upsampling to DSD128++ as far as the DAC has enough speed, is primarily to:

 

Use the least burdensome filter for the DAC to have an easy, easy job to convert D to A

Push the DSD noise way up the chain well above the audio band some 100MHz and keep going

 

The big plus to a very high sample rate is that there's no more delays in the switching of different rates that the DAC has to cope with, the rate never changes to the DAC, the upsampling is worked out by the player software, like HQPlayer, does a great job. CPU limits apply.

 

More reading here.

 

Ideally, the DAC input should be I2S and be done with it, but it's not a standard interface. The conversion from DSD to S/PDIF is a format conversion principally, the sampling rate will also have to adjust.

S/PDIF has lower packet noise to the DAC, so for the moment, it's the way jugglery is. Please treat S/PDIF to equal the coax and the XLR versions.

[Dev]

Even if the source is Redbook, upsampling to DSD128++ as far as the DAC has enough speed, is primarily to:

 

Use the least burdensome filter for the DAC to have an easy, easy job to convert D to A

Push the DSD noise way up the chain well above the audio band some 100MHz and keep going

 

The big plus to a very high sample rate is that there's no more delays in the switching of different rates that the DAC has to cope with, the rate never changes to the DAC, the upsampling is worked out by the player software, like HQPlayer, does a great job. CPU limits apply.

 

More reading here.

 

Ideally, the DAC input should be I2S and be done with it, but it's not a standard interface. The conversion from DSD to S/PDIF is a format conversion principally, the sampling rate will also have to adjust.

S/PDIF has lower packet noise to the DAC, so for the moment, it's the way jugglery is. Please treat S/PDIF to equal the coax and the XLR versions.

 

Interesting and thanks for the explanation. I presume the benefit is also DAC dependent. For example, the PSA DS DAC up samples everything to 10x DSD internally and it does have I2S (actually two). For some time earlier I had looked out for USB to I2S bridge with a good re-clocker doing DSD128 but couldn’t find one. I think the XMOS XU208 just released most probably will have this capability till DSD256.

 

Does the current Mutec 3+ USB h/w has the capability to support DSD512 ?

[peteAllen]

Glad to hear there's a new firmware coming for the Mutec. At the moment, in my system, I find the Yellotec puc2 is better than the Mutec mc-3+ usb. (I have a microRendu > chord sarum super usb > ifi micro iUSB3.0 > chord sarum tuned usb > Regen > chord sarum tuned usb > [puc2 / mutec] > MIT AES > dac).

[tboooe]

Whatever the method, DSD256 or 128 to AES3 176.4 is very good indeed.

 

I dont understand the point of converting PCM to DSD only to have the Mutec convert back to PCM. Is there some technical benefit? I have HQP so perhaps it has something to do with the filters HQP applies that gets retained even after the Mutec converts back to PCM?

 

Also are you saying you send DSD or DoP to the Mutec via the AES input? Is that a new feature in the upcoming firmware upgrade? As I understand it, right now you can only do DSD or DoP via the USB input.

[tboooe]

Curious for those sending DSD 64 or 128 to the Mutec, do you have to adjust the buffer? I found that I had to change the buffer setting to Extra Safe or else I would get a lot of static. I am not sure if changing the buffer impacts sound though as I cannot compare.

[One and a half]

I dont understand the point of converting PCM to DSD only to have the Mutec convert back to PCM. Is there some technical benefit? I have HQP so perhaps it has something to do with the filters HQP applies that gets retained even after the Mutec converts back to PCM?

 

Also are you saying you send DSD or DoP to the Mutec via the AES input? Is that a new feature in the upcoming firmware upgrade? As I understand it, right now you can only do DSD or DoP via the USB input.

 

The thing is to use the best attributes of the source and the receiver. HQ Player is great due to its filters and algorithms for DSD. DAC I use can accept USB-DSD128, but that input can be bettered by the AES3 input. The calculations to upsample in the computer is what it does best, the DAC makes music the best way from it's AES input.

 

The facilities are there, use them to the optimum

[One and a half]

Curious for those sending DSD 64 or 128 to the Mutec, do you have to adjust the buffer? I found that I had to change the buffer setting to Extra Safe or else I would get a lot of static. I am not sure if changing the buffer impacts sound though as I cannot compare.

 

Screen shots from today. The Hardware report is a Redbook playing DSD256.

 

The Extra Safe settings are the Mutec Control Panel, right? I looked and this item is not installed, if I remember correctly, I loaded the Mutec Drivers from the expanded EXE from Device Manager and not the out of the box EXE if that makes sense?

 

 

Hmm, I don't see the Mutec in the Sound Control Panel. Some goof up I think with the DDC switched off with HQ Player still running.

[One and a half]

Curious for those sending DSD 64 or 128 to the Mutec, do you have to adjust the buffer? I found that I had to change the buffer setting to Extra Safe or else I would get a lot of static. I am not sure if changing the buffer impacts sound though as I cannot compare.

 

Rebooted and the Mutec Panel is restored.

Currently set to Minimum Latency with ASIO Buffer set to Auto, HQ Player is output DSD11.2. I see you have AO for Server. I'm in limbo about implementing this software for the moment, Miska recommends not to use optimisation programs with HQPlayer and a server OS isn't the right choice for multimedia purposes. Could there be something restricting latency settings due to this?

 

The Windows 10 is out of the box that came with the PC, even has Norton Internet Security running. The only optimisation is to delete Lenovo productivity tools which are not needed, a few services like print are stopped, that's about it.

 

Updated HQ Player settings

[tboooe]

The thing is to use the best attributes of the source and the receiver. HQ Player is great due to its filters and algorithms for DSD. DAC I use can accept USB-DSD128, but that input can be bettered by the AES3 input. The calculations to upsample in the computer is what it does best, the DAC makes music the best way from it's AES input.

 

The facilities are there, use them to the optimum

I totally understand and agree with what you are saying. However, I am asking about send DSD or DoP to the Mutec only to have to convert back to PCM before sending the signal to the DAC. I am wondering if there is any benefit of using HQP to convert to DSD before the Mutec or if it would be better to just send the Mutec PCM.

 

I did some quick testing and I think it actually does sound better to send DSD to the Mutec. Now I am wondering why does it sound better? Is it because even though the Mutec converts the DSD signal to PCM, the signal had somehow been improved by HQP and inspite of converting back to PCM this improvement is retained and passed along to the DAC?

 

 

Rebooted and the Mutec Panel is restored.

Currently set to Minimum Latency with ASIO Buffer set to Auto, HQ Player is output DSD11.2. I see you have AO for Server. I'm in limbo about implementing this software for the moment, Miska recommends not to use optimisation programs with HQPlayer and a server OS isn't the right choice for multimedia purposes. Could there be something restricting latency settings due to this?

 

The Windows 10 is out of the box that came with the PC, even has Norton Internet Security running. The only optimisation is to delete Lenovo productivity tools which are not needed, a few services like print are stopped, that's about it

Hmmm...I am going to have to read about this more. I was under the impression that AO helps to minimize latency.

[tboooe]

It looks like the update will be ready for release in July and we can't wait to share it with you.

 

Julian

Julian, its July now!