Mutec MC-3+

[julian.david]

That's right. The Mutec accepts native DSD to 256 and Dop to 128, my memory is poor on the DoP but 128 minimum.

DSD is a nightmare to reclock it's not technically possible, so the output is Pcm. The highest multiple of 44.1kHz is 4x so best to use 176.4. If your DAC is 96 only, then use 88KHz instead, so definitely adjustable .

I've been using DSD out from pc for months, settled on DSD128 input to the Mutec with 176.4 to the DAC.

 

Thanks One and a half and SwissBear,

 

You are both correct. All DSD/DoP will be converted to PCM and re-clocked with sampling rates of 44.1 kHz, 88.2 kHz or 176,4 kHz. 48 kHz based sampling rates (48/96/192 kHz) would require a dedicated sampling rate converter which is not exactly desirable as it could degrade signal quality.

 

Julian

[mourip]

Figured things out, crew. Thanks.

 

What was the key?

[One and a half]

So my DSD Dac supports 192Khz and DSD128. For DSD/Dop conversion, I would select the clock out as 176.4. Does this mean when I play a 192K PCM, the output is 176.4K ?

 

OK. At the moment, the MC-3+USB needs to be programmed so that DSD OR PCM are sent from the computer. If the signal is DoP/DSD, the output should be 176.4kHz. If a PCM signal is sent when programmed for DSD, there's no output.

 

Choices are to send DSD/DoP all the time and let the MC-3+USB decode to PCM, or the user changes manually if there's PCM content.

 

Now there's new firmware in the wings that the MC-3+USB will switch auto between the two, but when, I think it's close.

 

I've got so used to sending DSD, there's no delays when switching since everything is DSD128 to the Mutec. Your player software will be the final determinant of how that's setup.

 

The Mutec does not sample rate convert PCM at all, whatever goes in comes out. Mutec have some very good SRC devices if you want to convert using hardware methods. Or if you lean to software developers, they will tell you software is better, up to you.

[adamaley]

What was the key?

 

Checking out images showing which LEDs were on and mimicking those - the manual is poor at explaining things to my simpleton audiophile mind. Also, I had to unplug and plug the USB connection to my PC to jump start things, otherwise, all appeared normal but JRMC would error out once a file started playing.

[Dev]

OK. At the moment, the MC-3+USB needs to be programmed so that DSD OR PCM are sent from the computer. If the signal is DoP/DSD, the output should be 176.4kHz. If a PCM signal is sent when programmed for DSD, there's no output.

 

Choices are to send DSD/DoP all the time and let the MC-3+USB decode to PCM, or the user changes manually if there's PCM content.

 

Now there's new firmware in the wings that the MC-3+USB will switch auto between the two, but when, I think it's close.

 

I've got so used to sending DSD, there's no delays when switching since everything is DSD128 to the Mutec. Your player software will be the final determinant of how that's setup.

 

The Mutec does not sample rate convert PCM at all, whatever goes in comes out. Mutec have some very good SRC devices if you want to convert using hardware methods. Or if you lean to software developers, they will tell you software is better, up to you.

 

Thanks One and a Half. I see what you are saying - the firmware to auto-switch is in the works. I mostly use Jstreamer/Minimserver and miniserver can convert DSD files to wav format on the fly and not the other way round, i.e. pcm to Dop. When I use the Yggy, I only send PCM signals like this and it could also work with the DS Dac as well. The question for me is to determine if the DS plays DSD files better using Dop or from converted to PCM. I guess I can do that experiment without the Mutec in between.

[ginetto61]

Hi and sorry to jump in.

I have found a picture of a power supply mod on this unit i find very interesting

 

 

I searched the thread but found nothing. I am very interested in this mod.

Thanks a lot, gino

[juanitox]

i have done this mode , with a new regulator add close to power pin and it sounds good now but it sounded good too before the DC power supply mod . So i can't recommend it for sure . but it does no harm ( except for the guarantee ! )

[ginetto61]

i have done this mode , with a new regulator add close to power pin and it sounds good now but it sounded good too before the DC power supply mod . So i can't recommend it for sure . but it does no harm ( except for the guarantee ! )

 

Hi and thank you very much indeed for your very kind reply.

If i understand well you have used an external DC power supply (DIY project or off the shelf ?) and the two wires in the picture carry the DC to the internal board ? I ask because i am thinking of doing something similar for my Gustard U12. Even if it works OK i still think that the better the supply the more stable the clock.

Thanks a lot again, gino

[modmix]

Actually, we recommend leaving the internal termination set to 75 Ohms even when using a 50 Ohms external clock. ---snip---

This also means that we advise you use a 50 ohms cable up until the input of the MC-3+ / MC-3+USB.

Sorry for the late response, Julian.

 

Feeding a signal via a 50 ohms cable into a 75 ohm termination will cause reflections at the cable end - this should normally be avoided.

 

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflection_coefficient

 

Any reason why reflections are good in case of this application?

 

Thanks

Ulli

[westy]

Where is the fuse located and what is the value?

[adamaley]

Hmmm. This MUTEC is doing some extremely wonderful things for my source.

[tboooe]

Hmmm. This MUTEC is doing some extremely wonderful things for my source.

 

Please elaborate.

[adamaley]

Well, I am loathe to go into too much detail since it's been less than a week, and I'm not really using it with a my preferred cable type (AES), nor with one of the best quality (old Stereovox XV2 BNC holdover from my squeezebox days). I will be receiving an Audience AU24 SE AES/EBU cable on Monday, then the real shenanigans shall begin. I'll be working from home, so it will be full blown evaluation. For now, all I can say is, separation/increased intelligibility/increased harmonics and color/wider and deeper soundstage. It really feels like a new component, not just an add-on.

[westy]

Where is the fuse located and what is the value?

Julian, Can you answer?

[tboooe]

Totally noob question...if I want to connect and SPDIF output from my PC (RCA) to the Mutec, which input would I use? I think according to the manual I would need to use connection #9 (on far right of the Mutec, right next to the AC plug)? Also, looks like I will need an RCA to BNC adapter.

 

I am going to try out a Raspberry Pi 3 & HifiBerry Digi+ as the output to the Mutec.

[Octagon]

Sorry for the late response, Julian.

 

Feeding a signal via a 50 ohms cable into a 75 ohm termination will cause reflections at the cable end - this should normally be avoided.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]25508[/ATTACH]

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflection_coefficient

 

Any reason why reflections are good in case of this application?

 

Thanks

Ulli

 

Hi Julian,

 

would like to remind that Uli's question is still unanswered. I am as well very interested to learn about the background of your recommendation.

 

Thank's in advance

Thomas

[tboooe]

Further to my previous post, has anyone connected the USB out from a Raspberry Pi to the Mutec 3+? Do I need any drivers?

[julian.david]

Julian, Can you answer?

 

Hi Westy,

The fuse is a hard-wired part of the power supply, which I'm told is common practice with most switching PSUs. There has never been a failure in a long history of using this power supply. What exactly are you aiming to do?

 

Best regards,

Julian

[Konstantin]

Further to my previous post, has anyone connected the USB out from a Raspberry Pi to the Mutec 3+? Do I need any drivers?

 

I tried. The connection does not cause any problems. I use piCorePlayer. The sound is superb. I have tried with different players on the Raspberry Pi and all run perfectly. You do not need any driver.

[tboooe]

I tried. The connection does not cause any problems. I use piCorePlayer. The sound is superb. I have tried with different players on the Raspberry Pi and all run perfectly. You do not need any driver.

Thank you VERY much! I intend to Volumio as a renderer on the Pi.

[westy]

Hi Westy,

The fuse is a hard-wired part of the power supply, which I'm told is common practice with most switching PSUs. There has never been a failure in a long history of using this power supply. What exactly are you aiming to do?

 

Best regards,

Julian

 

I have replaced all of my fuses with after market fuses. I wanted to do so with the Mutec's.

[PewterTA]

So... interesting turn of events...... At least in my mind as it goes against what I've thought, but never really tested out.

 

I just recently (as of last night) got myself a Bricasti M1 (used) and got it into my system. So far... it's a really nice upgrade to my modified NAD M51 that I have. The Bricasti wins... hands down... but the NAD is right along the same lines. But that's neither here nor there.

 

So with the Bricasti, it supports DSD. So I figured great! I finally get to play with some DSD files. I had played around with some before on a friends equipment and on my system and it sounded great. I have a bunch of DSD files, but never DSD, so I would convert to PCM and send them out on the fly via Foobar SACD plugin.

 

So with the new DAC, I'm using an iFI Micro USB 3.0 so I can have both the Mutec stack (MC3+USB & MC-3+) and the Bricasti USB at the same time. So the iFI is reclocking and sending to the Bricasti... and to the Mutec, just have to switch things around in Foobar to decide on which to play to when sending DSD across.

 

Well having gone back and forth and back and forth and taking the suggestions from here, I set Foobar to output DSD128 to both sides and then (on the Mutec stack) to output at 176.4.

 

So from the Bricasti and it's USB in playing native USB and some sample tracks... I was impressed. It sounded good the detail was there, things were smooth and enjoyable. No complaints WHAT so ever. It was very comparable to the best PCM stuff I have if not slightly better (since I wasn't comparing DSD to PCM either one could be "better."

 

Now, from the Mutec (first test was just with the MC-3+ USB)... Wow... this sound really good... There's a level of quality and synergy above the DSD played by itself. Everything is more in focus, instruments are better positioned and the sound stage has more 3-D depth to it than playing just straight DSD into the Bricasti. Things are much smoother, the music just has a sense of flowing out of the speakers. It's really the first time I've just heard "music" from my system. This is the whole time, while doing a comparison of the then native DSD playback and through the Mutec.

 

AND NOW.... I throw in the Mutec MC-3+ (so stacked)......

 

O

M

F

G

!

 

I have never heard this level of music from my system. I say music because while I've played all the same stuff and converted it via Foobar to PCM and played it through many times.... this is no longer digital, it's no longer a recording, it's MUSIC! Pure unadulterated MUSIC coming through! It's all the smoothness and musicality one typically gets with a nice Vinyl system with the (more often than not) level of detail of a digital system. All this is then wrapped around a level of realism that has never appears in my system and to be honest, hearing some HIGH end systems ($250K+ types)... honestly... have not given me the same thing.

 

Now I'm not saying my system is better than a $250K+ system (well for one second let me just enjoy saying it - yes my system IS better!!!! -- there I got it out... ha ha), but I could not imagine what one of those systems could do with this kind of quality going to them.

 

I'm of the proponent that what goes in, comes out. The better in, the better out on pretty much 99.8% of any system I've heard.

 

So I'm going to say it... and probably be safe to not have a huge debate on hands... but DSD converted to PCM and reclocked twice... HANDS DOWN is better than just DSD by itself. PCM is easily the equal if not better than DSD (and that's only because DSD is so hard to re-clock) and I can't truly do an apples to apples on that.

 

The huge grin and smile on my face is truly ear to ear with what I'm hearing!!!

 

Now the fun part will be to get the rest of the Pittsburgh Audio Group over to do some back and forth between the two and see what they all prefer. I'd be hard pressed to say any of them would like DSD as it is... or anyone for that matter... it's just that much better when you let the Mutec stack convert it over to PCM and re-clock and output it!

 

I'm in heaven now and got way more listening to do... and need more DSD I can convert to PCM. ha ha.

[tboooe]

Crap pewter! Now i need to save for another Mutec! Question...how do you connect the two Mutecs? Via XLR (AES) or BNC (SPDIF)? I was considering getting an external 10M rubidium clock for my Mutec but wonder if getting a second Mutec makes more sense.

[gldgate]

Crap pewter! Now i need to save for another Mutec! Question...how do you connect the two Mutecs? Via XLR (AES) or BNC (SPDIF)? I was considering getting an external 10M rubidium clock for my Mutec but wonder if getting a second Mutec makes more sense.

 

That's the $2K question. Stacked Mutec (another $1K) or the new clock ($3Kish). Really looking forward to the big "unveil" next week with some field reports soon after.

[PewterTA]

Crap pewter! Now i need to save for another Mutec! Question...how do you connect the two Mutecs? Via XLR (AES) or BNC (SPDIF)? I was considering getting an external 10M rubidium clock for my Mutec but wonder if getting a second Mutec makes more sense.

 

I started off with AES.... but I really feel the BNC SPDIF is better, there's just a little more detail to the signal. I did try the AES3/11id bnc and it's the same as the SPDIF BNC, but for me it's louder which I didn't like, probably in my mind it seemed more compressed due to being louder. So I switched back to the SPDIF BNC to run between the two.

 

I have a DIY Rubidium clock, but it's at a shop being tested to make sure everything is in tip-top shape. Hopefully I'll get it back at some point here soon to put into my system.

 

Course I'm still waiting on Mutec to send me their's so I can play with it. ha ha.

 

My Vote is two Mutec's with a Rubidium clock.