Mutec MC-3+

[SwissBear]

The downside is that my experience is the same as One and a half where the MC3+ does not like the USB controller on my late 2014 Macbook Pro.

 

Have you checked this ?

 

10.11.4 OS X update is out: "Fixes an issue that caused USB audio devices to disconnect"

[Chris F]

I'm still on OS X Yosemite. Primarily for compatibility with the Serato DJ hardware I use.

[One and a half]

Would that not imply a more precise clock would just be better than tandem lesser clocks and then shouldn't it be at the end, the DAC? Some outboard clocks can be used by both a reclocker like Mutec and by the DAC (not many have a clock input). Would that sound better? Or is it not only about clocks but noise on the signal and power (with USB connections)?

 

I did read 'somewhere' there are clocks and then there are clocks. The atomic ones, used to calculate spacecraft trajectory maybe fine for celestial navigation, but are hopeless for clocking digital audio. I wish I could find this piece again, maybe it was from a pro audio review. Can Julian help answer this one, thanks.

[julian.david]

I also have a MC3+ USB hooked up to my Yggdrasil via AES. With the MC3+ in place I find that the locality of instruments, attack/decay and everything sound stage is improved by several notches.

 

The downside is that my experience is the same as One and a half where the MC3+ does not like the USB controller on my late 2014 Macbook Pro. Sound quality is not good, you lose a significant chunk of the benefits described above and even worse the sound takes on a thin and aggressive quality. I also get audio dropouts where the PHY will lose signal lock. I have to stick a cheapo powered USB2.0 hub in the middle to have normal operation and get the full sonic benefit.

 

Julian, maybe you could communicate this to the engineering guys at Mutec as I feel it's a significant compatibility issue.

 

 

Hi Chris,

 

Would you be so kind to send me an email with your detailed playback setup (what mediaplayer and version #) to [email protected]? Do the dropouts occur with any file or is it limited to certain types/sample rates?

Also what's "PHY"?

 

Thanks,

Julian

[Chris F]

Hi Julian,

 

I'll send you an email tonight, even make a little video showing the issue. PHY is network engineering slang for "Physical Layer"; the actual electrical connection.

[westy]

Well, I finally figured out why I was getting "audio dropouts" with my Mutec.

I have been recording some Concert Blu Rays via my Oppo to my Tascam DA-3000 at 24/192 and then eventually these recordings get added to my hardrive.

 

In the chain was a defective HDMI cable? Even though it may or may not been in use but just plugged in, it caused the drop outs. Once the HDMI cable was replaced the drop outs disappeared! Hard to believe and was very difficult to track the problem down.

The cable was the top of the line WireWorld!

 

Now, I will have to go back and re-record the previous concerts. But, hey it's a hobby!

[julian.david]

Well, I finally figured out why I was getting "audio dropouts" with my Mutec.

I have been recording some Concert Blu Rays via my Oppo to my Tascam DA-3000 at 24/192 and then eventually these recordings get added to my hardrive.

 

In the chain was a defective HDMI cable? Even though it may or may not been in use but just plugged in, it caused the drop outs. Once the HDMI cable was replaced the drop outs disappeared! Hard to believe and was very difficult to track the problem down.

The cable was the top of the line WireWorld!

 

Now, I will have to go back and re-record the previous concerts. But, hey it's a hobby!

 

Strange, but I'm glad to hear that you've found the culprit!

 

Julian

[westy]

Julian,

 

Thanks, I know it is strange, I kept thinking it was some sort of copy protection that was causing it.

[tboooe]

Julian, when the new firmware update comes it out, will there be a way to revert to the previous version in case something goes wrong with the update or if perhaps people may prefer how the previous version operates (or sounds)?

[julian.david]

Julian, when the new firmware update comes it out, will there be a way to revert to the previous version in case something goes wrong with the update or if perhaps people may prefer how the previous version operates (or sounds)?

 

Hi tboooe,

 

I'll check with the developers and will get back to you after the weekend ASAP!

 

Best regards,

Julian

[tboooe]

Just thought I would post my impressions of the 3+. In a nutshell the 3+ added a lot of clarity to my system. The music has a transparency to it that I have never experienced before in my system. I know to some people this is a great thing but I am not so sure. I prefer a slightly warmer, more organic sound. Some would say I am more of a tube guy. With the 3+ the music is perhaps too clear that I feel like a bit of the soul is removed. I am not sure if that makes any sense at all but perhaps the distortion removed by the 3+ may have also removed the "organicness" that I like. Maybe I am nuts. Dont get me wrong, I think the 3+ is doing its job quite well but maybe I actually like jitter and distortion. LOL! I will continue to let the 3+ break in and see if anything changes.

[Luckbad]

To throw my quick thoughts here...

 

I grabbed a Mutec MC-3+USB and MC-1.2 to try them out. I've tried a number of other USB->S/P-DIF converters and other solutions (CI Audio Transient MKII, Audio-GD DI-U8, Audio-GD DI-2014, Gustard U12, UpTone Regen, Schiit Wyrd, and a couple others).

 

Most of those either did nothing obvious, very little, or made things worse.

 

The MC3+USB is the first I've ever used where I thought it clearly improved things. Everything became audibly cleaner, and very obvious with A/B testing.

 

My primary chain is an MHDT Labs Atlantis DAC -> ampsandsound Mogwai -> Sennheiser HD650.

 

I tried an Intona (Industrial) in front of the Mutec and didn't notice any improvements, but the MC3+USB is so obviously great that I got a second for my work chain.

[SwissBear]

Just thought I would post my impressions of the 3+. In a nutshell the 3+ added a lot of clarity to my system. The music has a transparency to it that I have never experienced before in my system. I know to some people this is a great thing but I am not so sure. I prefer a slightly warmer, more organic sound. Some would say I am more of a tube guy. With the 3+ the music is perhaps too clear that I feel like a bit of the soul is removed. I am not sure if that makes any sense at all but perhaps the distortion removed by the 3+ may have also removed the "organicness" that I like. Maybe I am nuts. Dont get me wrong, I think the 3+ is doing its job quite well but maybe I actually like jitter and distortion. LOL! I will continue to let the 3+ break in and see if anything changes.

 

You might be interested by this tuning of the driver of the MC-3+ USB on Windows : Mutec MC-3+ USB - Page 7

[tboooe]

You might be interested by this tuning of the driver of the MC-3+ USB on Windows : Mutec MC-3+ USB - Page 7

ahhhh...thank you. I've was messing around with the buffer settings last night and out of habit I set it at minimum latency. I will change to max to see if I hear anything.

[juanitox]

Just thought I would post my impressions of the 3+. In a nutshell the 3+ added a lot of clarity to my system. The music has a transparency to it that I have never experienced before in my system. I know to some people this is a great thing but I am not so sure. I prefer a slightly warmer, more organic sound. Some would say I am more of a tube guy. With the 3+ the music is perhaps too clear that I feel like a bit of the soul is removed. I am not sure if that makes any sense at all but perhaps the distortion removed by the 3+ may have also removed the "organicness" that I like. Maybe I am nuts. Dont get me wrong, I think the 3+ is doing its job quite well but maybe I actually like jitter and distortion. LOL! I will continue to let the 3+ break in and see if anything changes.

 

i have the same feeling the first week with the Mutec , because my brain was used with a sounds and the new listening that brings the MC3 was somehow disturbing , like i didn't recognize my disc .

now i can't imagine not using it ..

[westy]

I also was ready to send the Mutec back for a refund. But now it just makes such an open sound that I wouldn't want to part with it. Does that mean it needs substantial break in time? Maybe.

The different lights and settings can be confusing at first and the manual is not much help.

I have been recording concert videos from my Oppo reclocking with the Mutec and then recording at a HIREZ setting on my Tascam and then into my external hardrive. Wow, am I enjoying these live performances!

[adamaley]

i have the same feeling the first week with the Mutec , because my brain was used with a sounds and the new listening that brings the MC3 was somehow disturbing , like i didn't recognize my disc .

now i can't imagine not using it ..

 

Sometimes, we have spent years tuning our system to make things in our system bearable, in this case distortion, noise and jitter. When, finally, this pollution is taken away, we may be left with a system that disappoints, and may require adjusting our definition of what things should really sound like, and also be forced to now re-tweak accessories to this new sound.

[westy]

Has anyone tried using 2 Mutec-3+usb's?

[One and a half]

Has anyone tried using 2 Mutec-3+usb's?

 

At CA, Swissbear and myself have stacked MC-3+USB, Swissbear convinced me to add another. The difference is another level of re-clocking, cleaning up what's left over from the first stage. I use AES3, a short $40 Wireworld red cable to connect the two. Tried optical S/PDIF and a downhill of SQ, indistinct treble and more or less reverses the SQ by 30%+, not recommended. Final output is 176.4Khz Canare/Neutrik gold AES3 to DAC. Input is a constant DSD128 from HQPlayer.

 

I hear new details from very old recordings. Tried a week with just the one Mutec, but definitely felt as if something was missing. It's expensive to add another Mutec, they don't take up much room though, and the SQ improvements justify the expense. If you have an Intona, then by all means use it in front of the MC-3+USB. Thinking about an RUR, maybe just to tame the USB after the Intona.

 

There's also the extra pen as a neat bonus. As an aside, I find giveaway pens far more long lasting than ones you buy.

[Luckbad]

For my setup, which is admittedly less resolving than some because I use a NOS Tube DAC (MHDT Labs Atlantis), I cannot hear any gains using two Mutec MC3+USB stacked, nor can I hear any benefit with an Intona Industrial in front.

 

The latter I was able to A/B test because I have two identical DACs with matched tubes, two Mutec MC-3+USB, and a Schiit Sys to swap back and forth. The stacked Mutecs I couldn't directly compare, but I didn't perceive any loss removing the second Mutec after a night of listening.

[PewterTA]

Well I finally upgraded from my stack of MC-1.2 & MC-3+ to adding the MC-3+ USB in place. So far I have to say the MC-3+USB is definitely better than the old combination. This was with in an hour of using the new one, I noticed clarity that had not been there, detail "into" the instruments. There was also a greater sense of depth to the music and it was easier to focus on each individual instrument. So I definitely liked that!

 

I then, out of curiosity, ran the AES out into my MC-3+ and noticed a slight improvement with this set up. There was a slight realism to the instruments that I didn't get with just the MC-3+USB by itself. As a test I ran a coaxial cable to my DAC straight from the MC-3+USB and continued with AES from the MC-3+. Going back and forth there was a difference in the realism of them stacked vs. not. As another test, I swapped the cables around so that the stack had the coaxial and still noticed a difference for the better.

 

So no, I'm thinking that I'm going to keep the stack and just figure out what to do with the MC-1.2.... I was thinking that I'd sell the MC-1.2 and MC-3+ to a good home, but now I'm not sure I want to part with the MC-3+.....

 

The next revelation came when I grabbed some bluejeans cables (as I didn't have any) and started using the word clock from the MC-3+USB on the MC-3+.... THAT'S when I noticed there was definitely with out a doubt a level of difference that is completely worth mention! I can't believe how things sound now. To say they are better, it's true...but there's also a smoothness to the sound and as I can only describe, an ease of listen-ability. In meaning that, to my ears, I just sit back and everything sounds "correct." I don't feel like I have to "think" as hard about hearing everything, it's just there for my enjoyment to find.

 

The bass definitely has increased with quickness and authority. I've always had a slightly lean sounding system due to some room issues and well, needing a better amp (and DAC couldn't hurt either). But I've lived with it for many years...but now, it feels like there's a subwoofer added to my system, maybe another octave or two lower my system seems to reach. Now it's NOT the same as adding some subs...but it's the similar effect.

 

Overall, I have to say this is a great treat to have in my system. It makes me realize how good my system is that I can really hear very small changes in my system as it'll reveal pretty much whatever I want it to. Should be noted that I'm running both Mutec units off my PS Audio P10 so I'm giving them very clean power and also using an iFi Micro USB3 reclocker (running off the 9v HD-Plex Linear PSU for the computer) in front of the Mutec gear also. So really I have many levels of reclocking going on (on top of the PP V2 USB and TXCO MB clock).

 

If there's one problem with Digital Audio, it's clocking... that's the real secret to getting AMAZING sound.

 

On top is the MC-3+USB, middle is the MC-1.2 and on the bottom is the MC-3+. Not sure why the picture rotated when I uploaded it I saved it vertically.

 

Blue cables (Word Clock and AES) are Bluejeans Cables. Power cables are BlackSands Audio Violet MKIIs (Original Versions).

[gldgate]

Thanks for the nice update. I'm using a solo Mutec MC-3+ USB but am following the opinions of those who try the stack route. We also don't have long until the Munich show and the unveiling of Mutec's new external clock.

[One and a half]

Well I finally upgraded from my stack of MC-1.2 & MC-3+ to adding the MC-3+ USB in place. So far I have to say the MC-3+USB is definitely better than the old combination. This was with in an hour of using the new one, I noticed clarity that had not been there, detail "into" the instruments. There was also a greater sense of depth to the music and it was easier to focus on each individual instrument. So I definitely liked that!

 

Great write up there!

 

Tip. To get that little extra performance out, see the red tipped RCA coax cable on the MC-3+USB? Use the supplied BNC to RCA adapter and connect to the BNC S/PDIF Out 3 connector instead.

[adamaley]

I know it is very unlikely, but has anyone compared two Mutec 3+USBs against a BADA. It'll be interesting to know if the stacked Mutec's surpass the performance of the BADA. If that's the case it would be more frugal to simply go the BADA route. I know all this is subjective, however, I am yet to see a comparison of a single Mutec 3+ (not sure if USB version) vs. BADA where the Mutec comes out on top. I got an Intona a week ago, and I am planning on going with either the Mutec/BADA/HYdra-Z. I just need to do my homework thoroughly here before making the jump.

[Dev]

I know it is very unlikely, but has anyone compared two Mutec 3+USBs against a BADA. It'll be interesting to know if the stacked Mutec's surpass the performance of the BADA. If that's the case it would be more frugal to simply go the BADA route. I know all this is subjective, however, I am yet to see a comparison of a single Mutec 3+ (not sure if USB version) vs. BADA where the Mutec comes out on top. I got an Intona a week ago, and I am planning on going with either the Mutec/BADA/HYdra-Z. I just need to do my homework thoroughly here before making the jump.

I am in the same boat. I have an Intona with RUR in the chain and wondering if any spif reclocking device, like Mutec or BADA would provide additional benefit. I would have gotten the Mutec by now if it had the I2S out for the PS audio DS dac which sounds best on the I2S input than the AES/EBU. I have a cheap Gustard U12 and didn't find it to improve over when connected directly to the DAC with the Intona/RUR in the chain. Without the Intona/RUR, the U12 did provide some SQ improvements though.