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Mutec MC-3+


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Further to post there's now trouble at the Mill.

 

This is where computer audio can fall apart and really test the reliability and patience. The music server is shut down overnight and re-started on request. Sometimes, there's a delay of more than 24-48 hours before it's restarted, and there's not normally a problem.

 

Well, yesterday there was a problem, no sound, HQ Player stopped. Looked at the Control Panel Sound applet properties for the MC-3+USB and saw the maximum sampling rate was 48kHz, not 192kHz a normal. Have seen this before. The POS Intel USB controller switches back to USB1.0 or 1.2 nonsense for some reason, perhaps the Intona disconnects for some reason.

 

So. This means:

- Remove the Mutec Drivers from the sytem

- Remove the Mutec from the usb registry

- Remove the Mutec/Intona cabling

- Reboot

- Reinstall the Mutec drivers

- Reconnect the mutec

- Check the Sound Control Panel

 

The SQ was horrible, undefined, splashy treble, what gives this time?? HQ Player settings are normal, removed the Intona and replace the wire(s) with Nordost Blue Heaven cable and all is better but it's not quite as good as I remember from the last post, so now blame possibly both the POS Intel and the Intona.

 

From what I can remember, I installed the Intona online, that is with the computer and Mutec powered up. The Mutec was picked up picked up right away by the computer and sounded really great before, just trying to replicate. There's nothing much in it, but why the drastic sound change.

 

As a precaution, I bought a USB3.1 PCIe card, to avoid the Intel controller and see how we go, will try again tonight with the Intona. Daniel from Intona has sent a replacement unit, so will see how this behaves, due in before Easter.

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Julian,

 

Have you forgot about me? Why won't the Mutec receive the same PCM signal from the Oppo like the Tascam does? All the Mutec does is flash the blue lock, but never locks. Is it defective?

 

 

Hi Westy,

 

definitely haven't forgotten about you! Let's move this discussion over to email so I can best assist you trouble-shoot this particular issue since it's not a general feature discussion. It's unlikely that your unit is defective, but not impossible. Could you please send an email to [email protected] with a clear description (of photos) of your settings?

 

Thanks,

Julian

MUTEC GmbH

Marketing Associate

Email [email protected]

Web www.mutec-net.com

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Got my 3+USB working with my flac files. Great! However, I have a few questions:

 

1. I cannot get DoP files to play with the 3+USB. I am using Minimserver to send DSF64 files converted to DoP via the USB input. I first manually change the input (Reference) so that the USB-DSD/DoP is selected (the middle two lights are on). However, I cant get music to play. The Clock In lights never turn on.

 

 

I played around some more last night and still no luck. Both the Kernel Streaming and ASIO Mutec driver didnt work. I should also clarify that I am using Minimserver and Jplaystreamer. I have Minimserver set to convert DSF files to DoP but the Mutec still wont see the input signal from the PC. Anyone else having this issue?

12TB NAS >> i7-6700 Server/Control PC >> i3-5015u NAA >> Singxer SU-1 DDC (modded) >> Holo Spring L3 DAC >> Accustic Arts Power 1 int amp >> Sonus Faber Guaneri Evolution speakers + REL T/5i sub (x2)

 

Other components:

UpTone Audio LPS1.2/IsoRegen, Fiber Switch and FMC, Windows Server 2016 OS, Audiophile Optimizer 3.0, Fidelizer Pro 6, HQ Player, Roonserver, PS Audio P3 AC regenerator, HDPlex 400W ATX & 200W Linear PSU, Light Harmonic Lightspeed Split USB cable, Synergistic Research Tungsten AC power cords, Tara Labs The One speaker cables, Tara Labs The Two Extended with HFX Station IC, Oyaide R1 outlets, Stillpoints Ultra Mini footers, Hi-Fi Tuning fuses, Vicoustic/RealTraps/GIK room treatments

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I played around some more last night and still no luck. Both the Kernel Streaming and ASIO Mutec driver didnt work. I should also clarify that I am using Minimserver and Jplaystreamer. I have Minimserver set to convert DSF files to DoP but the Mutec still wont see the input signal from the PC. Anyone else having this issue?

 

 

Hi tboooe,

 

What mode do you have selected on the MC-3+USB?

 

Julian

MUTEC GmbH

Marketing Associate

Email [email protected]

Web www.mutec-net.com

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Got my 3+USB working with my flac files. Great! However, I have a few questions:

 

1. I cannot get DoP files to play with the 3+USB. I am using Minimserver to send DSF64 files converted to DoP via the USB input. I first manually change the input (Reference) so that the USB-DSD/DoP is selected (the middle two lights are on). However, I cant get music to play. The Clock In lights never turn on.

 

2. Is the Audio light for Status supposed to be on when the input is USB? According to the manual, this light only turns on for AES, Optical or Coaxial input?

 

Please see my other reply regarding your first question. Regarding #2: you're correct, the audio status LED is not supposed to come on when the input is set to USB. The upcoming firmware update will actually add audio status information for PCM and DSD/DoP via USB just like the other inputs!

 

Julian

MUTEC GmbH

Marketing Associate

Email [email protected]

Web www.mutec-net.com

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Hi tboooe,

 

What mode do you have selected on the MC-3+USB?

 

Julian

 

I have it in INTERN and RE-CLK mode. I also made sure I changed the Reference to USB-DSD/DoP. Is that right?

12TB NAS >> i7-6700 Server/Control PC >> i3-5015u NAA >> Singxer SU-1 DDC (modded) >> Holo Spring L3 DAC >> Accustic Arts Power 1 int amp >> Sonus Faber Guaneri Evolution speakers + REL T/5i sub (x2)

 

Other components:

UpTone Audio LPS1.2/IsoRegen, Fiber Switch and FMC, Windows Server 2016 OS, Audiophile Optimizer 3.0, Fidelizer Pro 6, HQ Player, Roonserver, PS Audio P3 AC regenerator, HDPlex 400W ATX & 200W Linear PSU, Light Harmonic Lightspeed Split USB cable, Synergistic Research Tungsten AC power cords, Tara Labs The One speaker cables, Tara Labs The Two Extended with HFX Station IC, Oyaide R1 outlets, Stillpoints Ultra Mini footers, Hi-Fi Tuning fuses, Vicoustic/RealTraps/GIK room treatments

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Hi tboooe,

 

What mode do you have selected on the MC-3+USB?

 

Julian

 

For whatever reason it works now! I just restarted my PCs and the Mutec a few times. DoP works perfectly! Thank you for the follow up.

 

Can you please verify what Mutec's plans are for DSD/DoP 64 files? In a previous post I think you mentioned that the 3+USB would reclock and pass the data on to the DAC but then in later posts that these file types will be transcoded to PCM first (as it is now). Will this be change in the next firmware upgrade?

12TB NAS >> i7-6700 Server/Control PC >> i3-5015u NAA >> Singxer SU-1 DDC (modded) >> Holo Spring L3 DAC >> Accustic Arts Power 1 int amp >> Sonus Faber Guaneri Evolution speakers + REL T/5i sub (x2)

 

Other components:

UpTone Audio LPS1.2/IsoRegen, Fiber Switch and FMC, Windows Server 2016 OS, Audiophile Optimizer 3.0, Fidelizer Pro 6, HQ Player, Roonserver, PS Audio P3 AC regenerator, HDPlex 400W ATX & 200W Linear PSU, Light Harmonic Lightspeed Split USB cable, Synergistic Research Tungsten AC power cords, Tara Labs The One speaker cables, Tara Labs The Two Extended with HFX Station IC, Oyaide R1 outlets, Stillpoints Ultra Mini footers, Hi-Fi Tuning fuses, Vicoustic/RealTraps/GIK room treatments

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All is good again :)

 

Further to post 476, the adding of the Intona while live (HQ Player is not running) worked OK, with the "original" Lindy 0.5m $4 cables from the PC to the Intona and from there to the Icron Ranger. I don't know why unplugging/replugging reduced the crud as opposed to a straight boot-up of the computer, then switching the MC-3+USB on. Something to do with the Mutec Driver or USB card only active when Windows starts at the wrong time, it's only a .sys file, nothing unusual about that, would like to know.

 

One day I should try a recently fresh new Mavericks/Mac Mini install and see how it works with a trial HQPlayer. That should be a different topic since this comparing an OS versus an dedicated audio ASIO approach with Windows. Would avoid the driver problems, but how to transmit DSD128 in OSX?

 

There's a subtle difference installing the Intona. You don't *really* need to add it in to the MC-3+USB chain. The advantages are a clearer, transparent presentation, but the effect is small but noticeable. The advantage vanishes when the Intona's output is directly connected to the Mutec with a cable, there's some radical increase in noise or some impedance mismatch (also possible) that's clearly audible for the worse.

 

Recommend this chain: Computer - Intona - Hub/Regen/RUR - MC-3+USB/ x2 stacked

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Hi all,

 

To celebrate the weekend I have an exciting announcement for all of you that don't own an MC-3+ Smart Clock USB yet (or are itching to get a second one): we are giving away one MC-3+USB in SonicScoop's Scooptacular giveaway this month! Hurry to the page below to secure your chance to win by March 31st:

Win a MUTEC MC-3+ Smart Clock USB! - SonicScoop

 

Good luck!

Julian

MUTEC GmbH

Marketing Associate

Email [email protected]

Web www.mutec-net.com

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...

 

Recommend this chain: Computer - Intona - Hub/Regen/RUR - MC-3+USB/ x2 stacked

 

If you remove individually the components upstream of the 2X Mutec stack, what are the perceived sonic differences?

I would expect the Mutec stack to accomplish all of the tasks of the Intona, REGEN, and RUR. With my system/ears, adding the REGEN just upstream is still being evaluated. So far only one Mutec for me so I think the REGEN helps, but I want some other ears to test with me soon.

You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star

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^This.

Have yet to see an engineered reason why "doubling units with galvanic isolation" is needed.

Swapping out my LPS fed Regen for a Mutec 3+USB in a week to go AES into Yggy and be done with USB band aids.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile mobile app

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My TV set is connected on the optical S-P/DIF input of the first Mutec. So I use it whenever I am watching TV or a video. I have hardly been able to notice the delay. But the sound of the video is very much improved by the Mutec, and voices are much clearer.

 

That is how, in part, I'd like to use the unit - to clean up optical input from multiple A/V sources (all down-mixed to stereo) before the DAC. Have you had a chance to compare the output when switching between high and low jitter sources? [i'm guessing that the TV optical out is quite high in jitter and trying to figure out if the MC-3+USB total cleans up the signal to the same degree as if was presented a low jitter source.]

 

The Mutec has two configurable clock outputs on the rear panel <1> and <2>. Set one for the Card, the other for the DAC, or since they are the same rates, there's the rear panel output <1> A & B.

Use the AES3 input (output from the Lynx) and the Mutec AES3 output to the DAC, use the Intern + Reclock and the source is AES3 input.

Leave the clock multipliers at 1 for the AES3 output <4>. That should work very nicely.

 

Yes, re-clocking matters (a lot).

 

My DAC (RME Fireface UFX) has a world clock input. Is there any benefit in connecting the world clock output of the MC-3+USB to this input (given that these are the only two such devices in the set-up)? Or is the world clock output only really of use when there are multiple digital devices with different clocks?

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If you remove individually the components upstream of the 2X Mutec stack, what are the perceived sonic differences?

I would expect the Mutec stack to accomplish all of the tasks of the Intona, REGEN, and RUR. With my system/ears, adding the REGEN just upstream is still being evaluated. So far only one Mutec for me so I think the REGEN helps, but I want some other ears to test with me soon.

 

The addition of eitherHub/Regen/RUR is an electrical one only to be used with the Intona. I find that the Intona + Mutec in that combination alone causes splashy and hardness in the treble, perhaps due to lifting grounds and the noise not getting back to the source properly. It doesn't really matter which device is used, Hub/Regen/RUR, since all of them have a hub chip installed and that seems to do the job of taming the noise "flow control". If the MC-3+USB (stacked or single) still provides an excellent sound by itself, subject to what cables are used and the source.

 

The re-clocking in the Intona, Regen and RUR are at various level of implementation of the USB signal, whereas in the MC-3+USB is also at the USB level, but more importantly, the output signal (AES3, Coax) to the DAC where standards (IEC 60958) apply to the transmission signal. USB doesn't have any re-clocking standards.

 

I'm about to add in the Playback Designs MPD-3 DAC back into the system again, it gives a little more height in the soundstage with the Mutecs.

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My DAC (RME Fireface UFX) has a world clock input. Is there any benefit in connecting the world clock output of the MC-3+USB to this input (given that these are the only two such devices in the set-up)? Or is the world clock output only really of use when there are multiple digital devices with different clocks?

 

Westy and myself use a TASCAM DA-3000 recorder and the Mutec works well with the recordings. From what I read on the web, external clocks can be worse than using the internal clocks. The 'benefit' seems to be like tubes, the distortion is an even order distortion (not heaps but measurable) and not odd order harmonics which is unpleasant. The disadvantage when using several clocks on their own, is latency error and for pro work can be a show stopper, for audiophile use, not a real drama at all. Progressive re-clocking works for audiophile use, since each stage receives a re-worked cleaner signal with less PLL activity required for the next stage. It's not important if this takes 10ms or longer.

 

It's worth a try though to hook up the MC-3+USB to the UFX, and if the DAC in your system has a clock input all the better. The termination of the clock system is the main thing getting the end terminator right.

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Westy and myself use a TASCAM DA-3000 recorder and the Mutec works well with the recordings. From what I read on the web, external clocks can be worse than using the internal clocks. The 'benefit' seems to be like tubes, the distortion is an even order distortion (not heaps but measurable) and not odd order harmonics which is unpleasant. The disadvantage when using several clocks on their own, is latency error and for pro work can be a show stopper, for audiophile use, not a real drama at all. Progressive re-clocking works for audiophile use, since each stage receives a re-worked cleaner signal with less PLL activity required for the next stage. It's not important if this takes 10ms or longer.

 

It's worth a try though to hook up the MC-3+USB to the UFX, and if the DAC in your system has a clock input all the better. The termination of the clock system is the main thing getting the end terminator right.

 

Thanks. FYI - the RME is both the audio interface and DAC in my set-up. I'm thinking of using the MC-3+USB to take a USB input and output AES to the RME.

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^This.

Have yet to see an engineered reason why "doubling units with galvanic isolation" is needed.

Swapping out my LPS fed Regen for a Mutec 3+USB in a week to go AES into Yggy and be done with USB band aids.

 

Try your REGEN with it before you sell it. I wanted to have a simpler setup but I found that it still made a positive difference added to the Mutec/Yggy in my setup.


"Don't Believe Everything You Think"

System

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Try your REGEN with it before you sell it. I wanted to have a simpler setup but I found that it still made a positive difference added to the Mutec/Yggy in my setup.

 

Ok I certainly shall try this for at least a week based on your advice, going AES into your Yggy also?

Thanks for the tip.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile mobile app

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...going AES into your Yggy also?

 

Yes.

 

“CAPS-Like” PC to PPA card with AQJB in second port to Supra USB cable to REGEN to Mutec MC-3+USB to Apogee Wyde Eye AES/EBU cable to Schiit Yggdrasil...

 

Not done with experimenting but sounds MUCH better than USB input with USB tweaks. I really wanted to discover that I could just use the on-board USB straight to Mutec but so far have found the USB tweaks still help.

 

Let us know what you find...


"Don't Believe Everything You Think"

System

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I really wanted to discover that I could just use the on-board USB straight to Mutec but so far have found the USB tweaks still help.

 

Let us know what you find...

Dang. That's what I am afraid of! Guess I'll be getting the PPA usb v4 soon!

12TB NAS >> i7-6700 Server/Control PC >> i3-5015u NAA >> Singxer SU-1 DDC (modded) >> Holo Spring L3 DAC >> Accustic Arts Power 1 int amp >> Sonus Faber Guaneri Evolution speakers + REL T/5i sub (x2)

 

Other components:

UpTone Audio LPS1.2/IsoRegen, Fiber Switch and FMC, Windows Server 2016 OS, Audiophile Optimizer 3.0, Fidelizer Pro 6, HQ Player, Roonserver, PS Audio P3 AC regenerator, HDPlex 400W ATX & 200W Linear PSU, Light Harmonic Lightspeed Split USB cable, Synergistic Research Tungsten AC power cords, Tara Labs The One speaker cables, Tara Labs The Two Extended with HFX Station IC, Oyaide R1 outlets, Stillpoints Ultra Mini footers, Hi-Fi Tuning fuses, Vicoustic/RealTraps/GIK room treatments

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I have general questions about reclocking devices like Mutec MC-3+ USB (or Acousence or Audiobyte Z which is USB only in). Clocks are not optimized for audio in general use computers but I see some using these reclockers with servers/digital player which are (or should be) audio optimized computers.

That also make me think why more than one reclocker in tandem sound better? If it is true that these devices just eliminate the original source clock and replace it with a "perfect" clock why an extra layer has any benefit?

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I have general questions about reclocking devices like Mutec MC-3+ USB (or Acousence or Audiobyte Z which is USB only in). Clocks are not optimized for audio in general use computers but I see some using these reclockers with servers/digital player which are (or should be) audio optimized computers.

That also make me think why more than one reclocker in tandem sound better? If it is true that these devices just eliminate the original source clock and replace it with a "perfect" clock why an extra layer has any benefit?

 

The way I look at this and might be totally off the track. Here goes. The output of the first device is regenerated signal since the source clock is stripped and replaced with a new one. This would also tend to reduce the timing errors, aka jitter. When the second device receives a relatively clean input, the PLL that's responsible to re-clock the signal can have maximum optimisation or processing ability to reduce the jitter even further.

 

As an example only, if the jitter detected was 100ps from the USB source, the first device may only reduce this to 10ps, since it can only clean up 90ps. The second device, then sees the 10ps and it can also clean 90ps worth, so more or less gets rid of the last 10ps or whatever the noise floor is, there's a finite limit. Not that these figures are accurate in any way, it's only an illustration of what could happen with tandem units and why the SQ improves. So by the time a third unit is in play the effect is a lot less, since there's even less errors to clean up.

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Would that not imply a more precise clock would just be better than tandem lesser clocks and then shouldn't it be at the end, the DAC? Some outboard clocks can be used by both a reclocker like Mutec and by the DAC (not many have a clock input). Would that sound better? Or is it not only about clocks but noise on the signal and power (with USB connections)?

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I also have a MC3+ USB hooked up to my Yggdrasil via AES. With the MC3+ in place I find that the locality of instruments, attack/decay and everything sound stage is improved by several notches.

 

The downside is that my experience is the same as One and a half where the MC3+ does not like the USB controller on my late 2014 Macbook Pro. Sound quality is not good, you lose a significant chunk of the benefits described above and even worse the sound takes on a thin and aggressive quality. I also get audio dropouts where the PHY will lose signal lock. I have to stick a cheapo powered USB2.0 hub in the middle to have normal operation and get the full sonic benefit.

 

Julian, maybe you could communicate this to the engineering guys at Mutec as I feel it's a significant compatibility issue.

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