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Mutec MC-3+


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I have read on Mutec's web site an interesting but already dated report about cascading multiple Cascading multiple MUTEC MC-3+ (MUTEC - Professional A/V and High-End Equipment - Up-To-Date). This report was stating that to a certain extent, you could improve the final SQ achieved by using multiple digital reclockers, the ones after the others.

 

Have some users been tempted by cascading the newer MUTEC MC-3+ USB in order to further increase SQ ?

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Hi Julian,

I am quite new on this forum. I am interested in the MC-3+ USB. I have actually ordered and received one unit and find it incredibly useful and pleasant to use. I will not restate all what has been said/written about the benefits of your reclocker on the listening experience, but I certainly agree with that.

 

I have read that other users use Regen resp. Intona USB filters to respectively enhance the USB signal or galvanically isolate the DAC from the computer. If I am not mistaken, the Intona also performs a kind of reclocking right ?

I have also read under your name in another thread that the MC-3+ USB also performs a complete galvanic isolation.

 

Does the benefit of adding an Intona before the MC-3 result from the reclocking features of the Intona ?

 

I would like to understand your ideas about the benefits of adding Regen resp. Intona components in an installation which will, at some point, end with an AES/EBU connection between an MC-3+USB and a DAC. In terms of USB signal enhancement and galvanic isolation, wouldn't it be wiser to cascade one or two more MC-3+ USB in the same way than Fujak (http://www.head-fi.org/t/625793/audio-gd-master-7-discrete-fully-balanced-dac-pcm1704/1350#post_10282826).

 

How would you recommend to connect (AES/EBU, coax, aso) and to configure these additional devices ?

 

I admit that this question could sound naive as you are employed by Mutec, but I would like to read your take on this.

Also, in case the DAC has other inputs than AES/EBU (SPDIF or Toslink), would you favor another type of connection between your reclocker and the DAC ?

Thanks.

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While I'm not Julian, I thought I'd chime in here since I'm using a MC-3+USB with a REGEN.

Thanks Chris for answering. Interesting to have your thoughts.

 

Andy, this link is very interesting indeed. Full of material to dig into. Thanks again.

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Hi Chris,

Thanks for this complement of information.

I read a lot about Regen and Intona in this forum.

 

I gave Intona a trial, but I was actually disappointed as the SQ with Intona alone is far inferior than with Mutec MC-3+ USB alone. And unfortunately, I am affected by the syndrome where Intona+Mutec is not recognized well by my Mac (cannot see the connection, whatever the USB cables I chose). People at Intona have been of little help in this matter :-(.

 

As far as Regen is concerned, I read in depth a thread where the developers of Regen are explaining that they are engaged in the development of their own power supply in order to avoid inconvenient results obtained otherwise.

 

So for the time being, I will go the route which is the safest for me : stacking MC-3. In fact, as the price of MC-3 is acceptable (even more if you account for the fact that you have to buy fancy and expensive USB cables to make other Intona+Regen solutions work properly), the solution of stacking MC-3+ devices is much cheaper than other reclocking solutions I was considering. And this brings impressive improvements to my installation.

Thanks any way.

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Hi Julian,

 

Thank you for your time and for your answer. This was certainly useful.

 

I found another interesting synthesis after posting on another (german speaking) blog which is referenced above. Here is a Google Translate link to it : https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aktives-hoeren.de%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ff%3D23%26t%3D5902%26start%3D120%23p109172&edit-text=&act=url

 

Fujak, the guy behind the first tests in Mutec MC-3+ cascading, essentially reviews the MC-3+ USB and comes to the conclusions that :

- MC-3+ USB is so good, compared to MC-3+, that it hardly necessary to cascade multiple devices. One MC-3+ USB is enough (sorry for you Julian :-))

- the Regen (Uptone USB Rain in the Google Translation :-)) still bring additional though light improvements.

 

Thanks to all of you, Andy, Chris and Julian, for your kind help.

Best regards from Switzerland.

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Yes that's absolutely possible. toslink, coax and USB have inputs on the MC-3+ USB.

To switch between the sources, you need to use the menu and the select buttons. Once you have set-up the device, if you want to just switch between sources, you just have to press on the menu button once, and then as many times as necessary on select to choose the appropriate source (scroll).

On the USB source (I am using Audirvana on Mac), changing source does not affect the behaviour of the program. When you change the destination on the Mac (I am using USB->Intona->DAC (via USB) or USB->Mutec->DAC (via AES), Audirvana just stops playing and you have to start playing again. That's all for me.

Hope this helps.

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So SwissBear, are you using both the Mutec and Intona? Or are you A/B'ing them to decide what is best/

Hi earflappin,

Still stuck in what seems to be a lack of compatibility between Intona and Mutec. When I try to chain them, my Mac Mini is not recognising the Mutec. May be a problem of cables. But most of people who succeeded to chain did that with a Regen and its own power supply in between. Daniel from Intona recently mentioned that he was trying to solve this issue.

For the time being, I am comparing the two options, with a clear preference on my side for the Mutec, which offers, at a higher price though, the clarity of sound of Intona, and an additional very impressive sound stage (deep, wide, and very accurate in terms of localization of instruments/voices) which I did not find elsewhere.

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Hi all,

A short question related to upsampling. I observed that, on my system, the added value of the Mutec MC-3+ USB in the chain could be maximized by having the digital flow upsampled to the maximum, 192kHz, on the Mac, through Audirvana and its iZotope 64bits-SRC filter. My DAC is a Devialet with an identical maximum sampling frequency of 192kHz.

Is there a technical justification to this observation ? I guess yes and the answer might lie in the following article : SoundStage! Getting Technical Back-Issue Article (11/2003). My understanding is that upsampling on the Mac, and removing (at least significantly decreasing) jitter through the MC-3+ USB, produces a very clean flow directly into the DAC, which does not have to resample before transforming the digital signal to analog.

But I want to make sure. Any idea ?

At least, results are superb.

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Sorry to throw in another question but I didnt' want to start another thread. Is the MC-3+ the same as the MC3+ USB excpept for the USB input? In other words are the SPDIF inputs, processing, output, etc on both models the same or is the MC3+ USB an improvement on all inputs?

If you refer to this review made by a German medium (MUTEC - Professional A/V and High-End Equipment - Up-To-Date), "As the measurement diagrams below show, these efforts have certainly paid of: the MUTEC MC-3+USB not only significantly improves the jitter performance of D/A converters with the re-clocking mode, it also does so even more thoroughly (figure 3) than its already excellent sibling (figure 2).", the MC-3+ USB does much better than the MC-3+.

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So the MC-3+USB is the first product that was specifically developed with the needs of the audiophile folks in mind.

Hi Julian,

 

A small suggestion if you allow me : if you aim at the audiophile market, a remote control to switch sources would not be useless.

 

Hi all,

A short question related to upsampling. I observed that, on my system, the added value of the Mutec MC-3+ USB in the chain could be maximized by having the digital flow upsampled to the maximum, 192kHz, on the Mac, through Audirvana and its iZotope 64bits-SRC filter. My DAC is a Devialet with an identical maximum sampling frequency of 192kHz.

Is there a technical justification to this observation ? I guess yes and the answer might lie in the following article : SoundStage! Getting Technical Back-Issue Article (11/2003). My understanding is that upsampling on the Mac, and removing (at least significantly decreasing) jitter through the MC-3+ USB, produces a very clean flow directly into the DAC, which does not have to resample before transforming the digital signal to analog.

But I want to make sure. Any idea ?

At least, results are superb.

Julian again,

 

Do you have any view on this ? Is there a technical justification for upsampling before reclocking or does it not matter at all ?

 

Thank you.

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Oh and what happened to the Ref 10? A prototype was shown at the end of 2014 but never heard from again. Is there any plan to bring it to market still?

Our German friends from aktives-hoeren.de • Foren-Übersicht look excited about the idea of plugging a 10 MHz clock into the MC-3+/MC-3+ USB. Does one have to be able to send a clock signal to the DAC to fully benefit from this improvement ?

Has anyone an idea about the price tag of this device ? Julian surely has, but will he share this information ?

Thanks.

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I tried to converse on the German forum, which was not that easy for me given my lack of mastering the German language ; Google Translate is your friend to a certain but limited extent :-). I am anyhow happy to share a few information I gathered there, especially from Fujak, the person who tested Mutec MC-3+ cascades.

 

- on the possibility to use an external 10 MHz clock ; Fujak has built his own external clock and stated that he was not able to witness any improvement with this DIY clock fed into the MC-3+ USB, compared to a cascade of 2 x MC-3+ USB devices. Fujak did not report being able to test a prototype of the Ref10 from Mutec anyhow. We will see what that brings when this new product will be available.

 

- on the cascading of 2 x MC-3+ USB devices ; Fujak strongly recommends to use BNC connections between the devices and to the DAC (better quality for the buck of BNC cables than AES ones). He uses Oyaide DB-510 cables to do that. Kujak made the precision that the two MC-3+ USB need to be configured with internal clock reclocking (using the clock signal from the first to synchronize the second does not help reach better SQ).

 

- on the upsampling question I was raising (24/192 before reclocking instead of 16/44 to the reclocker and upsampling at the DAC) : there are other reports by the German forum users that upsampling to 24/192 before a 24/192 DAC brings better SQ. There is an ongoing thread on this subject.

 

Hope this helps.

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You know, the possibility of using two Intona devices is starting to make a lot of sense, like two Regens. The further away from earth the better.

I'm kind of intellectually reticent to stacking those filters, use more curious cables, aso...

I'm using two MC-3+ USB stacked in the way Fujak documented. I'm very happy with that for the moment :-)

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If the sampling frequency is the same, then the gear changing time would be minimal, otherwise there's 3 time lags, the two DDC plus the DAC.

Hi One and a half,

 

Before upsampling, the actual sampling rate switching latency, through the 2 Mutec MC-3+ USB and into the DAC, was between 3 and 4 seconds. I had adjusted this parameter in Audirvana to be able to enjoy the beginning of each track when listening to a playlist, where tracks were of different sampling rates.

 

After upsampling the sampling rate switching latency has completely disappeared, by definition I would say, which is an additional advantage of this solution.

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What is your sq impression of Mutec x 2 ? I've heard conflicting opinions.

On my side, there is absolutely nothing negative in this set-up.

To paraphrase two Audiophile 'friends' I have, I would say :

- quoting the owner of a French DAC manufacturer, re-clocking is like interposing a door on the way of noise ; when you have a double door, you tend to hear less outside noise :-).

- quoting Fujak, a German blogger : re-clocking is a highly addictive hobby ; once you have been used to it, you can never get rid of it, and you want more. 2 stages cascade is considered very good with the technology of the MC-3+ USB... I have sent back my Intona, and the only additonal device I am contemplating is a high accuracy 10 MHz clock to feed into the MC-3+ USB, when Mutec's Ref10 is available...

 

On my side, I have been hugely impressed by Mutec reclocking ; I have been able to appreciate the improvements in terms of sound transparency, sound presence, very precise soundstage. And two devices stacked just improved the first impression ; I would never like to get rid of one of them.

 

The only 'problem' I could emphasize is that this technology, like all good sound playback device, tend to restitute good recordings with a high accuracy, but also tend to reproduce bad recordings with an equaly high accuracy. If the sound engineer who has been responsible for balancing the percussions has exaggerated the level of percussions in the balance of the record, given the accuracy of the restitution, you will tend to be distracted by the accuracy of percussions during the playback.

 

Garbage in, garbage out :-)

 

But I would be interested if you can share the less positive feed-backs you have.

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is it possible to use the Mutec MC3 usb for movie too or it had to much delay for the sync ?

My TV set is connected on the optical S-P/DIF input of the first Mutec. So I use it whenever I am watching TV or a video. I have hardly been able to notice the delay. But the sound of the video is very much improved by the Mutec, and voices are much clearer.

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