Mutec MC-3+

[gldgate]

Just pulled the trigger on this. Been using my Yggy with lower cost "Breeze" digital converter for AES connection (which I felt sounded better than straight Yggy). However, galvanic isolation in combination with reclocking for the price (less than a used Berkeley) sounded like too good a deal to pass up.

[gldgate]

I guess you won't regret it. Let us know your impressions when you get it.

 

Will do. In addition to Yggy I also have a Sabre based DAC (Eastern Electric Supreme) so will try it out with both. Hoping to validate the positive impressions I've heard on this board (and others).

[gldgate]

Does anyone know if the MC-1.2 + MC-3+ would be the same thing as just using the MC-3+ USB? I mean in terms of performance? I know they are doing the same thing, but with two boxs vs. single box of the MC-3+ USB.

 

I'm wondering if I should replace the MC-1.2 with the MC-3+ USB and then still keep the MC-3+ in the mix to do cascading reclocking... then I can use the MC-1.2 somewhere else.

 

I wish Mutec would give us loyal customers a discount to upgrade! *hint hint* *wink wink* ha ha!

 

I would recommend contacting Mutec directly. I have read that the MC-3+ incorporates the latest and greatest technology (clocks) but if I were you I would get that directly from the source. Product obsolescence (especially in this hobby) sucks. That is one of the reasons I went with a company like Schiit for my DAC. Not only is it a direct sales model but many of their products are board upgradeable.

[gldgate]

Just received Mutec MC-3+ USB this afternoon. I have it set up to go thru AES connection. First impression is very positive. Improvement over stock Yggy and the low cost "Breeze". What has surprised me is that the sq seems more liquid/smoother while retaining the Yggy's detail. Will fool around some more and will give further impressions early next week.

[gldgate]

If you don't mind me asking, what interface are you using in your server to feed the Mutec?

 

For my initial impressions it was a direct hookup between computer USB and Mutec without any USB gadgets (which I have but decided not to use). USB cable is relatively inexpensive Supra.

[gldgate]

Thanks - did you mean the motherboard USB or are you using a PCIe USB card of some type?

 

Motherboard (Asus Sabertooth) USB from my Puget Sound Serenity Pro . I also have a CAPS pipeline with SOTM USB Card but have not tried that combo yet. Will also try Mutec with some of the USB gadgets (Regen and Wyred Recovery) when I have some more time.

[gldgate]

The Mutec MC-3+USB isn't that fond of USB 3.0 ports, with or without the Intona. The blue lock light was on, but no signal coming through. If there's a self powered USB 2.0 hub on the USB 3.0 port, the Mutec is OK, but the hub is a nuisance connection. Even more if the hub is powered from a wall wart.

 

USB 2.0 ports work with not a problem, first time every time.

 

Hmm. I don't have Intona but am using USB 3.0 port from PC without any issue (so far).

[gldgate]

Very interesting... The CAPS/SOTM vs the Serenity Pro would indeed be a neat comparison with the Mutec.

 

Main reason I am using Serenity Pro more these days is that I am using Roon almost exclusively and the Serenity has Roon Core installed on it. I have Roon Server installed on CAPS but find it's more buggy. My understanding is that the next Roon update will have Roon endpoints. Hopefully this will make it easier to to send audio signal to the CAPS machine.

[gldgate]

Some good news, what chip is the USB Host controller on the motherboard?

 

The Sabertooth Z97 Mark 2, USB 3.1 Motherboard has both Intel Z97 express chipset and ASMedia USB 3.1 Controller. I'm using one of the ASMedia USB connections without any issues.

[gldgate]

Some more personal opinions on the Mutec with my system. Note that I have 51 year old ears and last I checked they were not made of gold.

 

- Definitely prefer Mutec to straight Yggy or Breeze converter. This confirms my initial impression from Friday. Sound retains Yggy detail but has what I can only describe as more smoothness/liquidity.

 

- I prefer the Mutec/Yggy connected via AES over Coax but it's pretty close

 

- I used Mutec in two systems. A single PC setup without USB card (Puget Systems Serenity Pro) and a dual PC setup with CAPS Pipeline as Audio PC using Jplay, SOTM USB card and Optical network. The CAPS dual PC setup sounded better. Probably due to USB card and optical network. In the dual setup, adding Regen did not add anything. In single PC setup I think the Regen was marginally beneficial but I would not bet money I could pass a blind A/B test.

 

- I tried playing around with selecting different clock multipliers but honestly could not tell a difference.

 

- Other than Breeze I have not owned other digital converters, especially a high end one (like Berkeley) so can't provide any comparisons. These were the two that were on my short list. In the end, I went with the Mutec because (a) it's cheaper (b) it's newer and © versatility.

 

I should be getting a Wyred recovery in this week and will try that out. Given the results with Regen I'm not expecting much.

 

Overall, I consider myself satisfied with the purchase. While $1K is not cheap, the cost of USB "fix it" doodads, especially in combination (Regen, Recover, Intona, LPS, curious etc..) can add up pretty quickly. While the Mutec does not do everything, the combination of galvanic isolation, reclocking and converter appears to be a very versatile and sensible piece of equipment. Mutec's pro audio background also is a plus in my book (lower bs factor).

[gldgate]

Thanks gldgate for the update, few questions?

 

On the coax, did you try the 75 Ohm BNC? It's difficult to spot perhaps in the small writing at the back, it is amongst the clock outputs. This was recommended to me by Mutec. If you have the facility to use AES3, then that's the best.

 

The setting of the clocks is a little complex (for me), depends on the source sampling frequency and what is output. I think we could post photos and compare might be easier, and also to learn from errors as well. If Julian can pop in from time to time to check what we are doing is right

 

I did not try BNC. I will pick up a cable and give it a shot.

 

I was completely winging the clock multiplier settings. I just tried a bunch of different settings to see if I could hear a difference. They all sounded the same to me so I ultimately just left it in the default setting. There was no real purpose behind what I was doing - just pushing buttons like a 5 year old to see what would happen.

[gldgate]

Thanks for posting the pics. I've been using Roon/Tidal so setting is essentially your second picture with 44K output to AES. The Yggy does not do DSD and I prefer the Yggy's internal "combo burrito" filter to the HQ Player ones. I think my next step is to try my Sabre DAC with Mutec so I can experiment with some of the DSD settings.

[gldgate]

I had a chance to listen to Mutec with HQ/Roon today with the Yggy. My fav HQ setting is closed form but I still prefer the sound of Yggy's native filter. However, this gave me a chance to reclock using the clock multipliers. I listened to default setting and reclocked to 176Kh. Here is a pix:

 

 

I honestly could not tell much of a difference but it did not hurt anything. It's also really easy to reclock. Hit a few buttons. If you accidentally input a wrong clock setting that Mutec can't handle you simply won't get any sound.

[gldgate]

Yes, it's doing my head in. Maybe the manual needs to be split up to show (more) examples of:

 

DSD input

DoP treatment

USB PCM to S/PDIF & AES3 with/without reclocking

 

That's why for simplicity there's just the single DSD256 from HQ Player and a conversion inside the MC-3+USB to 174.6 PCM to the DAC. In time, the beast can be mastered, but at least we can't blow up anything. If there's a complete goof up, the DDC will shoot black data, no harm done.

 

Thanks for your info on the clocking multiplier LED's. I reread the manual (again) and since I'm using AES out, the only LED which should matter is the 4th column (corresponding to AES output) and it has 3 lights because it can only be reclocked up to 192kh.

Back for some more trial and error. I'm sure the manual is really clear to the pro audio guys but if they really are aiming this for the consumer audiophile market they may want to reorganize this section (slecting clock multipliers) of the manual a bit.

[gldgate]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]24299[/ATTACH]

Here is a 'dark' picture of my Mutec x 2 operating at 24/192. The first is configured with an USB input. The second is getting its input on the coax.

 

What is your sq impression of Mutec x 2 ? I've heard conflicting opinions.

[gldgate]

Thanks so much for your impressions swissbear. My choice of words may have been off. I have not heard anything negative. However, I believe I read (Fujak?)that older Mutec's yielded fairly signifcant benefits from cascading while the new model cascaded does not yield the same level of incremental improvement. It's really more of a cost/benefit question. That's why I valued your input on this matter.

 

On a side note, the Ref10 does sound very interesting for those who can afford the higher price tag. I would be hesitant to spend more on a converter/reclocker than on my DAC but am interested in hearing impressions when it becomes available.

[gldgate]

Cool thread and of great interest for me as I would like to try the AES input my Yggy.

 

Question. I use Windows 2012R2 and JRMC. Right now my PC "speaks" to my Yggy via the Schiit WASAPI drivers.

 

If I hook up the Mutec MC-3+ USB then I assume that I will need new drivers for the OS to communicate with it and that my Schiit drivers will no longer have a function?

 

Does anyone know if the Mutec drivers work with Audiophile Optimizer in Core Mode?

 

Thanks!

 

Paul

 

Yes, Mutec provides downloadable drivers. I would check with Mutec to see if the MC-3 + USB is compatible with Server 2012. The driver download section does not specifically list this OS. Can't say about AO. I have purchased a license (back in November) but am waiting for W10 version to be final before I install. I can also say that the Mutec works fine with Jplay in dual PC config with Roon, HQ Player, JRMC and Bughead. Within Jplay I can select three different Mutec selections (Asio, Wasapi and KS).

 

Edit: In looking thru my manual it lists the MS OS's supported as XP, Vista, 7,8,8.1 and 10.

[gldgate]

I set up Mutec with Toslink, Coax, AES and BNC connectors to Yggy and spent some time switching back and forth. Wish I had a definite preference but Toslink, AES and BNC all sounded great and were essentially indistinguishable to my ears. Coax was the one connection that did not sound quite as good. Did not use any megabuck cables. This surprised me a bit because with straight Yggy I had a preference for AES over Coax and Toslink (Just got BNC cable today). As always, your mileage may vary.

[gldgate]

Would you say that AES with the Mutec was a worthwhile upgrade over straight into Yggy USB?

 

Yes. No buyers remorse.

[gldgate]

Glad you clarified that. I was scratching my head because the "coax" input sure looked like RCA to me (lol) but I referred to it as Schiit has it labeled. BNC, Optical and AES sounded the best and RCA SPDIF (What Schiit labels as "coax") was the only input that to my aging ears did not sound quite as good as the others.

[gldgate]

Of course, there is also the option of Mutec MC-3 + USB hooked up with one of these when it becomes available. Very curious to see more details from the Munich show in May.

 

http://www.mutec-net.com/downloads/Ref10_InfoSheet_2014_E.pdf?PHPSESSID=bb6ijqqdl5trk5eiulfivuhac1

 

[gldgate]

Hi iago,

 

If you read this article Tik Tik Tik: Four audio engineers hash out the merits of Mutec's new MC-3+ Master Clock | Tape Op Magazine | Longform candid interviews with music producers and audio engineers covering mixing, mastering, recording and music production., which was kindly pointed out by Andy Nicholson above, you will notice that the MC-3+ USB has basically two applications :

- act as a clock distributor (based on its internal clock or an external reference) to distribute clock signals to synchronize multilple devices inside a studio environment ; this application is detailed in the first part of the said article

- act as a reclocker to improve an audio signal ; this application is described in the two last parts of the article. This is the most commonly used by Audiophiles.

I understand that (1) is for the first application, and (2) and (3) for the second application.

 

I think you nailed it. This was confusing when I first got the manual as well. Then the light bulb went off. The Mutec is one serious piece of equipment that has major studio applications in addition to normal audiophile ones. There are settings on the Mutec that 99% of audiophiles will never use.

[gldgate]

So are you saying that both the lights EXTERN + RE-CLK should be lit?

Or should it be the top and bottom lights, INTERN + RECLK

very confusing.

Source is USB output is AES XLR

 

Internal + Reclock. Go back in the thread and you will see some pictures.

[gldgate]

Thank you SwissBear and gldgate for responding, and sorry if I created more confusion by asking. I was comparing settings between MC-3+ and MC-3+USB, which have changed slightly. Both MC-3+ operate with or without reclocking, which seems to be selected via the MODE switch; only in MC-3+ only one option is lit at one time, in MC-3+USB either one or two options can be selected. I was wondering about the difference.

 

Clock reference source is still selectable via the REFERENCE setting. I believe you can tell if MC-3+USB is in re-clock mode by the STATUS LEDs: if the device is in re-clock mode, two of the status lock LEDs are lit (input PLL, output PLL?), otherwise one.

 

Here are my current settings for reference. Please note that I am running the devices with external clock reference.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]24412[/ATTACH]

MC-3+ settings

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]24414[/ATTACH]

MC-3+USB settings

 

Ah. Did not know they changed the LED configuration from MC-3+ to MC-3+ USB. Thanks for the pix. Am guessing that the majority of people on this site who purchase the Mutec will be using internal clock. However, if the Ref 10 does not cost an arm or leg I might be tempted to join you in running external clock.

[gldgate]

Hi gldgate,

Last price info I received from my reseller about this product was slightly north of 3'000 EUR.

 

 

 

Thanks for the info. Out of my budget for the moment but will be interested to hear reports from others. I will say that 3000 Euros is a lot more affordable than some other 10M Clocks that are out there (ie. Antelope).