Does SSD sound better than Hard Disk?

[Audio_ELF]

Why is it that threads like this always seem to deteriorate into discussions on DBTs, and that all reports of improved/ changed performance must be due to the amount of money spent and a healthy imagination ?

I would suggest that the sceptics go back to P.2 of the thread and carefully read what Chris, and especially Mr. USB ( Gordon Rankin) have to say on the subject. There are far too many "armchair experts" ready to chime in with theoretical reasons why it is all impossible, without even trying these things for themselves in a good system.

I understand that some Recording Studios have switched over to SSD as well, and report improved results.

As usual, it will come down to the actual system they are used in, the way they are implemented, and PERSONAL preferences.

Hell, some people even prefer the sound of added Jitter, as it may appear to enhance an otherwise lacklustre system,

just as low level noise can sometimes appear to enhance low level detail, until you turn the volume up higher .

Alex

Alex ... can I suggest that the reason threads like this often deteriorate into DBT tests is because of the dogmatic polarised views of people.

 

I think you do a diservice to some of those you describe as "arm chair experts" - some of them have tested it and found no difference. Yet because they start with the idea it shouldn't make a difference their experience is often dismissed.

 

If you actually read Chris' opinion on Page 1 of the thread he states...

I've done this on a very limited scale. I have no data, measurements, or scientifically approved testing procedure to back up my opinion either. In my experience an SSD sounds better with my Mac Pro and a Zalman fanless PC running Windows XP. Other people I know have the same opinion and have conducted some extremely basic A/B tests with mastering engineers and product designers. Again, not empirical data. Just sharing my experience with SSD v. HDD.

 

He admits that it's an opinion only and there is no data, measurement or scientific testing involved.

 

Somewhere through the thread that becomes - "I put an SSD into my computer and it sounds better to me so it MUST be an improvement". Thats where people come back with the "prove it" and DBT challenges / discussions. At least the skeptics accept that there may be a difference - as I've commented on other topics, time and again those who rely only on listening will rarely admit they may be wrong.

 

Eloise

[sandyk]

[quoteAt least the skeptics accept that there may be a difference - as I've commented on other topics, time and again those who rely only on listening will rarely admit they may be wrong.

]

Eloise

I use the phrase "armchair experts" because talk is cheap, and many seem to think that just because they work in other engineering disciplines, they seem to think that their original Uni training is enough to categorically dismiss reports in other areas without actually listening themselves. Chris has recently mentioned elsewhere, that he hopes to obtain some data in this area shortly.

To dismiss reports out of hand by highly respected people with huge amounts of industry experience such as Gordon Rankin , is in my book plain arrogant. Unfortunately, from what I see here, most hard line sceptics simply refuse to accept such possibilities.

You are clearly an exception to that rule. If only most actually said , " it shouldn't make a difference" instead of "it can't possibly make a difference."

time and again those who rely only on listening will rarely admit they may be wrong.

Many members could also say the same about the Objective side. At least in areas where I do have some knowledge, and suitable test equipment, I do try very hard to obtain measurements, and spend many hours of research attempting to support my subjective claims. At least I had the guts to approach Martin Colloms , who is an experienced technical writer, reviewer, and qualified E.E. in an effort to get further proof of my claims in one area.

I could have ended up being thoroughly humiliated if Martin had done all that testing, including Blind listening tests and reported that there was no basis to my claims.

Another subjective finding of mine took many years to verify, and many put downs along the way, including from the publisher of Silicon Chip magazine, who at least published my schematic and invited comments.

I was eventually vindicated in the DIYAudio "Current Mirror" thread of November 2008.

Current Mirror Discussion - Page 13 - diyAudio

Regards

Alex

 

Alex

[alice]

Wow, I haven't read the whole thread, currently my music sits on the NAS which runs Hard Drives ( Those spinning disks that some don't like)

My Streamer ( Audio PC running WIN 8.1 is a quite isolated machine running only Jriver, should I invest in an SSD, directly attached to my audio pc ?

Will there be improved audio performance compared to playing music over the network through the NAS ?

[prot]

no ... and no

 

I wont read the thread either ... big waste of neurons ... but them, maybe you just wanna have fun

[alice]

no ... and no

 

I wont read the thread either ... big waste of neurons ... but them, maybe you just wanna have fun

Not fun TBH

[davide256]

I tried a pair of 1TB western digital red drives in my NAS first then used 2 512GB SSDs. The difference was basically one of less fatigue products, edginess

in sound. And its entirely possible that the improvement heard was due to the SSD's taxing the power supply less, that 1TB notebook HD's or a better power supply for the NAS could have created like improvement. But one thing I've learned from PC's, faster/more processing power pays dividends so I've shelled out the money for SSD's as not costing that much compared to other avenues for system improvement.

[Hifidelit]

Wow, I haven't read the whole thread, currently my music sits on the NAS which runs Hard Drives ( Those spinning disks that some don't like)

My Streamer ( Audio PC running WIN 8.1 is a quite isolated machine running only Jriver, should I invest in an SSD, directly attached to my audio pc ?

Will there be improved audio performance compared to playing music over the network through the NAS ?

 

Yes and maybe - in the scenario you describe some people report an improvement and some don't, I recommend the Samsung 850 PRO for the price, performance and warranty if you want to give it a try.

[Starre]

I have used 2 laptops which both had a switch from HDD to SSD and in both cases it was an upgrade. Sound gets cleaner and more detailed and even better dynamics and less rough. But it also gets more revealing of recordings...both bad and good ones.

[prot]

I have used 2 laptops which both had a switch from HDD to SSD and in both cases it was an upgrade. Sound gets cleaner and more detailed and even better dynamics and less rough. But it also gets more revealing of recordings...both bad and good ones.

 

How exactly did you compare ?

[Starre]

I listened first (for many months) and then swapped to a SSD with the first laptop and got convinced. The second one I swapped right away from new to be honest so I have not compared on that one but

I selected it more carefully this time to get a very low power SSD and went for it without comparing to HDD.

[davide256]

I have used 2 laptops which both had a switch from HDD to SSD and in both cases it was an upgrade. Sound gets cleaner and more detailed and even better dynamics and less rough. But it also gets more revealing of recordings...both bad and good ones.

 

I suspect that as with most laptops you had only 1 storage drive where both your OS and media resided. So the difference you heard was due to faster processing in running the OS, not a useable comparison between HD vs SSD as storage solution for media. A useable comparison would require SATA or USB 3.0 attached drive comparison of media only on HD vs SSD with no change in the drive running the OS..

[Starre]

Maybe so, I just did what gave me the best result in my situation, I will try extern HDD with usb 3 and usb 3 stick and also SD card to examine what sounds the best. Some say it is good to have the music on a different drive than OS but I did not have that result with my old laptop, maybe this time I will.

[bhobba]

as I've commented on other topics, time and again those who rely only on listening will rarely admit they may be wrong.

 

Not in my experience. When non blind listening is conducted PROPERLY its very easy to hear differences - in fact people I have shown such to in a genuinely transparent system come away shaking their heads - it was so obvious. But they are only too aware they can be fooled - its just it so glaringly obvious you don't feel the need to check it blind.

 

And I have seen at blind tests some very experienced listeners pick stuff such as usb cables with 100% reliability. I might add I failed that - but there exist those that pass it with ease. I even know one very experienced designer that can easily pick by ear one db differences in speaker responses and then have it confirmed by measurement. He is uncanny - but you know what - he still confirms it with measurements.

 

Thanks

Bill

[bhobba]

Will there be improved audio performance compared to playing music over the network through the NAS ?

 

In my experience yes.

 

I was at an technicians place (he designs and builds DAC's) who fitted out a NUC computer with a SSD and I transferred my music to it. I played the same songs via his network and via the SSD - the SSD was clearly better - more alive and dynamic.

 

In fact the little NUC with a very good linear supply I had built, running Daphile, and using its internal SSD, is better than or close to any other server I have tried against it - its that good.

 

But I also have to tell you some of this stuff is plain weird. I heard a reference system running a Direct Stream DAC. It simply didn't sound right to me - far too aggressive detail that was unnatural. To try and get to the bottom of it a dedicated server was built run off a really overkill linear supply. Better - but still not floating mine or others boat. Then he put the power supply on a very good isolation platform. Now it sung. Weird.

 

Thanks

Bill

[davide256]

Maybe so, I just did what gave me the best result in my situation, I will try extern HDD with usb 3 and usb 3 stick and also SD card to examine what sounds the best. Some say it is good to have the music on a different drive than OS but I did not have that result with my old laptop, maybe this time I will.

SSD's are expensive... in my desktop I run a 128gb SSD for the windows directory where it matters and have a 1tb HD for program file directory and media files where the performance difference is marginal but the cost difference is not.

[GrahamJohnMiles]

Not too long ago I also had a chance to listen to one of those systems that cost more than average luxury car. The first 45 minutes, I was really underwhelmed (system was already warmed up before I arrived). It was unexciting, nothing really stood out and grab my attention. But after awhile, I could not find any real false or weakness in the system. I could actually hear the music as it supposes to be and there is no hardware that really called my attention to it. I went in expected to be blown over by the system right from the beginning but it really took me a long time to really appreciate what I hear and it was really addictive. In a quick blind test, this system may fail miserably. Of course some people may not appreciate this sort of things and that's not what they are looking for in their stereo system. But this would be another instance I think where usual bind test setting would not yield the same conclusion that I would reach otherwise.

 

This paragraph strikes a sympathetic cord with me. I have what most of friends and colleagues think is an exotic system although at slightly less than $10,000 others might consider it just above entry level. At parties people want to hear it, expecting something magical and mind-blowing and I invariably say no. With all the background noise going on, conversations, cooking and drinking I know it would be a complete waste of time so I steer them onto other topics. My system can indeed sound spectacular with dynamic material, but what invariably grabs my attention is the subtleties that most uneducated listeners would miss. The skin reverberation of a drum; the rich overtones of a grand piano chord; the leading edge of a guitar note; the sound of a singer's mouth. These things aren't what non-audiophiles expect to hear; they just want loud and bassy. I guess it's a bit like expensive wines and single malts. It's the complexity and subtlety that makes them stand out from the dross, and so it is with good musical reproduction. A system that can unravel the threads of the music and provide the subtle cues and emotion of a live performance is the one that will keep you engrossed for years to come.

[Starre]

It takes time and knowledge to observe the finer details in music reproduction, I have learned to listen bit by bit. What was impressive at first now makes me irritated, getting better to evaluate what is quality and what is not.

[Deyorew]

I haven't been able to find an answer to this question:

 

If I get Apple Fusion Drive (2TB or 3TB) how does it sound if my whole library is on the HDD part of the Fusion drive. I would love to rid myself of external drives or network attached drives and my whole library is only 1.2Gb in AIFF.

[Jimmypowder]

It takes time and knowledge to observe the finer details in music reproduction, I have learned to listen bit by bit. What was impressive at first now makes me irritated, getting better to evaluate what is quality and what is not.

 

I guess you have ears like this :

 

 

[Paul R]

I haven't been able to find an answer to this question:

 

If I get Apple Fusion Drive (2TB or 3TB) how does it sound if my whole library is on the HDD part of the Fusion drive. I would love to rid myself of external drives or network attached drives and my whole library is only 1.2Gb in AIFF.

 

Just answered this in your other topic. Short answer, it will work and sound fine.

 

-Paul

[AudioDoctor]

Just answered this in your other topic. Short answer, it will work and sound fine.

 

-Paul

 

Yes, it will work and yes it will sound fine, my understanding is though that the Fusion Drive appears to the user as one drive and the system decides which files go where. I did not see the other thread, so I do not know if this was already answered or not.

[Paul R]

Yes, it will work and yes it will sound fine, my understanding is though that the Fusion Drive appears to the user as one drive and the system decides which files go where. I did not see the other thread, so I do not know if this was already answered or not.

 

No, that is absolutely true. It manages active files, like the OS and the current album being played by putting them on the SSD. It has a pretty smart predictive algorithm too, though it predicts wrong upon occasion.

 

It's a reasonable and affordable compromise between high cost SSD and lower cost big storage.

 

-Paul

[AudioDoctor]

No, that is absolutely true. It manages active files, like the OS and the current album being played by putting them on the SSD. It has a pretty smart predictive algorithm too, though it predicts wrong upon occasion.

 

It's a reasonable and affordable compromise between high cost SSD and lower cost big storage.

 

-Paul

 

Good, that means that the kid at the Apple store wasn't lying to me...

[davide256]

Hybrid drives don't help you with music, the small SSD portion is just a cache solution . Unless you plan to put the same album on repeat you will be reading the music from the HD portion. Tried this and found it wanting compared to normal SSD

[Paul R]

Hybrid drives don't help you with music, the small SSD portion is just a cache solution . Unless you plan to put the same album on repeat you will be reading the music from the HD portion. Tried this and found it wanting compared to normal SSD

 

An Apple Fusion Drive? My experience here does not agree with yours. Perhaps you were using a hybrid drive on a different platform?