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Does SSD sound better than Hard Disk?


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Hi Chris,

 

I have not done any listening, I am still put off by the price, and I am in the middle of building a cheap PC for upstairs again. I still run a PC with a 2496 soundcard, but still prefer my CD transports and use a Genesis Digital Lense with the PC and transport. Last month the SSD I was interested in was £220 thiis month its £300, the prices are as imaginative as some claims I hear.

 

As the transfer rate of data from the drive is mute I do not see how it can have any affect when it is being written to and read from memory? RFI from a metal cased drive seems mute, I was told some time back that RFI, PSU's etc do not cause any detrimental performance some time back when I stated I found computer audio to be lacking.

I have seen no technical data to support any improvement in audio replay due to file storage being SSD, it still has to go through the same process as data from a standard HDD, and even these are overkill for audio and HTPC, which is why many find 5200rpm green drives more than sufficient, even with a 4200rpm laptop drive for the OS.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see some technical data showing what is claimed to be more than imaginitive, after all what is currently being claimed is more imaginitive than jitter not existing or being an issue, or PSU choice not affecting audio quality. You do not get a performance benefit in audio playback due to running i7, or the best memory, how can you expect such, yet that memory is where that music id buffered is it not?

 

My only interest in SSD was boot times, benchmarks and gamming, power consumption and silence, there is a 1tb SSD available now, but at such costs it is pointless for home audio and consumer use. Now if robust technical data can show there IS without doubt measurable performance increases with audio plaback and resolution I am interested.

 

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"...You do not get a performance benefit in audio playback due to running i7, or the best memory..."

 

I didn't say that :~)

 

I see where you are coming from, but don't really agree. No worries here. Hopefully we'll all be able to look at some hard numbers in the near future. Then again hard numbers are not likely to sway people much either. Jitter comes to mind when I think of hard numbers :~)

 

Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems AudiophileStyleStickerWhite2.0.png AudiophileStyleStickerWhite7.1.4.png

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Can I connect a OCZ vertex to a mini mac? Or is it only for notebooks?

Moreover, i get that i should install the OS on it. But what about the music files?

 

How do i tell the computer to install on external HD?

 

Sorry to many questions

 

Thankss

 

Music after life

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  • 2 years later...

Why oh why do people believe in this nonsense.

No SSD drives won't make an mp3 or a .wav sound better, period, end of.

 

Why do people still equate streaming music on a computer to a 1980's CD player reading the CD realtime at 1x speed. That's not how it works. When you play an mp3 or .wav on your computer it reads the data in chunks in advance of playback. These chunks get buffered at every level, from the memory cache in the spinning hard drive, to the computers memory cache, software cache and finally the buffer in the soundcard. It's not like some straight line freeway with little 1's and 0's all marching at one speed and that is what defines the jitter. Good grief, how good the clock in your D/A in the audio interface is what defines that.

 

Anyone who believes listening off an SSD sounds better is imagining it, expectation bias, nothing more.

 

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Speaking for my self, I believe this nonsense because I clearly heard it. At the symposium and in my system.

 

Sorry. I know you have vastly superior knowledge. I'm pretty comfortable with what I hear.

 

Rick

 

Audio Research DAC8, Mac mini w/8g ram, SSD, Amarra full version, Audio Research REF 5SE Preamp, Sutherland Phd, Ayre V-5, Vandersteen 5A\'s, Audioquest Wild and Redwood cabling, VPI Classic 3 w/Dynavector XX2MkII

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of where SSD supporters believe most improvements lie. It's not always the actual data path that is used as an area of improvement, it is often the acoustic environment, the reduced noise and vibration-related garbage that the already-noisy computer environment has to no longer deal with. It's a similar argument to that of reducing any extraneous noise, whether it be spinning cd-roms and physical hard drives or electronic noise generated by display devices and leaky power supplies.

 

Also, you speak empirically, as if this is known fact and that we should all "go back to our families, there's nothing here". This is a debate and intelligent discussion. It's ok to have an opinion, but tends to do more harm than good when it is positioned as superceding all other comments.

 

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@Rick

 

I'm comfortable in the knowledge that people out there spend $1000 on a silver power cable thinking it makes a difference and to their ears they hear a difference, but its still all in their head. If people are willing to waste money on something that offers no improvement because it makes them feel more comfortable inside, hell go for it. But it still doesn't mean there is an actual difference present.

 

I do get the point regarding seek head noise, spinning rumble etc. Though todays traditional hard drives are much much quieter. Mine reside in their own sealed enclosures which reduce noise to the point its quieter than the ultra quiet 120mm fans on my case, so that becomes a non-issue.

 

Just a little understanding of how data is transferred in a computer and yes, then you'll realise why the SSD offers no audible improvement. It can't do, its utterly impossible because its not sent as a single stream, it IS sent as chunks of data and there are far too many buffers in between the source and the output.

 

Bottom line, if you like to store a lot of music, especially in uncompressed .wav/.aiff format, Save your pennies cause SSD is simply not worth it yet.

 

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Hi Steve - You joined the site 45 minutes ago and your first two posts come off very abrasive. Computer Audiophile is a laid back environment where all opinions are welcome only if the people posting them are respectful and un-abrasive.

 

I'm sure everyone would appreciate your continued comments as long as you tone it down a bit and don't imply that many readers are nuts. Stating your opinion and the reasons for your opinion are quite enough. Posting in a respectful fashion may get readers to see your side and thoughtfully question their opinions.

 

Do you have a goal for posting what you've posted? Seriously this is an honest question.

 

 

 

Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems AudiophileStyleStickerWhite2.0.png AudiophileStyleStickerWhite7.1.4.png

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Chris,

 

You are being way to soft on him :)

 

~~~~~~~

 

Steve,

 

Why oh why do people believe in this nonsense.

No SSD drives won't make an mp3 or a .wav sound better, period, end of.

 

Actually it has been tested that increase system performance does result in a better sounding system.

 

I like to call it lanes... Basically keeping the lanes as clear and as fast as possible will make for better sounding system. By lanes I mean USB, Firewire, Sata, Memory etc...

 

So if you link the system to your Sata controller then nothing else should use that lane. If your DAC is USB then use a Firewire disk for your library (or Thunderbolt, or another Sata controller). If your DAC is Firewire then use USB or... anyways you get the point.

 

For SSD the big deal is the OS is constantly using and accessing this drive. Therefore if you have to wait for the op to complete then well the music suffers.

 

I have like 18-20 computers in the lab and I think all are on SSD's now and work significantly better and sound better than rotating disks.

 

You cannot just think bits, bytes whatever anymore, we are way passed that stage.

 

Thanks

Gordon

 

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You cannot just think bits, bytes whatever anymore, we are way passed that stage.

 

Thanks

Gordon

 

If we aren't thinking bits and bytes then what are 'we' thinking at this stage?

 

The bits can get out USB using an asynch device like those you make, and that device apparently does a good job timing them out to SPDIF (which has its own issues at that point), but what going on in the computer is changing the sound.

 

Mechanical noise, electrical noise to the rest of the system, neither what ideas do you have for what is going on?

 

And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. 

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Hi Chris,

 

Wise sentiments that I agree with and if for some reason I came across too strong then I apologise. However I would also appreciate if you didn't twist my words as well. Nowhere did I accuse anyone of being 'nuts'. I suggested that they're imagining a difference and this happens naturally all the time. This does not make a listener crazy. Our sense of hearing can be easily fooled.

 

Ask any producer who's tweaked an eq for ages, hearing a difference, only to realise it was set on bypass the entire time.

 

I belive I did state both my reasons and why I think some people appear to hear a difference when there is none. I hope this forum remains an open arena to all opinions, both for and against products.

 

 

 

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@J.Gordon

 

Once again I'm afraid you are not taking into account all the in-between buffers, it doesn't matter how wide or narrow or blocked your 'lanes' are, either the data chunks make it in time or there is an audible gap or extremely obvious clicks. Those bits ultimately arrive in chunks to the soundcards internal buffer and the quality of the clock, the convertor chip and the analogue components around it determine how good it sounds. Whether its SSD or spinning hard disk has zero impact here. Sure it'll make programs load faster, but won't magically make music sound better, sorry.

 

Remember we're talking a single stream of audio, which for an uncompressed single stereo wav file is incredibly easy for a hard drive to handle. Indeed, think about studios that use 7200RPM hard drives for projects. You can have 30,40, 50 24/32bit stereo audio tracks all running simultaneously in the DAW without any impact on sound quality. The hard drives barely breaking a sweat. I know this because I'm a music producer myself.

Is anyone seriously trying to suggest playback of a single track of audio the sound quality is being affected?. It is I'm afraid nonsense.

 

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I hope more people will jump in here with their POV on the SSD vs HDD debate. I was planning to put an SSD in my Mac Mini because of recommendations from Gordon and others. Then I read some posts in other threads here on CA that an SSD sounds worse than a HDD. So I'm on the fence, hoping to be convinced one way or the other before proceeding.

 

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I can at least tell you that my iPod classic (which has a hard drive) sounds better than my iPhone 4G (which has a flash drive). My suspicion is that this is due to the internal DAC's and not the mode of storage. Regardless of the possibility of difference in sound due to different storage techniques I can at least say that the choice of DAC makes much more of a difference than SSD vs. HDD. Considering the (surprisingly still) high prices of SSD drives I suggest you spend that money on something more explicit, if you like.

 

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I believe SSD 'sound' better than an spinning one.

 

First of all I try to let the minimal power consumption for the internal Mac Mini (in my case, but will be the same for other computers) SPSU, since bigger the consumption, more 'switching noise', and also it will be more power available for other process, with less noise. And also, like Gordon R. mentioned, even on memory player software there is a lot of 'system calls' where the processor access de HD, then if faster in an SSD is also better, I guess this is what Gordon said as 'better timing'.

 

Now I have my external spinning HD (music library) on a LPSU (was on firewire power before), and also the USB interface on an LPSU (was also on USB power before), and everything is more 'relaxed', better music timing, like in DSD native playback?

 

BTW, I own an extra Mac Mini 2010, just in case, because I love Snow Leopard, and still is with his original spinning HD, and the SQ is not the equal as the one with Talent SSHD.

 

My 5 Colones (about 2 cents).

 

Roch

 

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I recently went from using a Toshiba laptop w/HDD, to an HP laptop w/SSD...and while the differences are not large, I prefer the HP. It may not be an apples to apples comparo though, as the HP is much the better machine i.e, a lot more memory, faster processor...etc...etc. I run both from the battery and use the memory exclusively when playing music.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Bob

 

Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not." — Nelson Pass

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Steve,

 

Once again I'm afraid you are not taking into account all the in-between buffers, it doesn't matter how wide or narrow or blocked your 'lanes' are, either the data chunks make it in time or there is an audible gap or extremely obvious clicks.

 

Dude as I said... we are way past this level of interpretation. I design chips and hardware for a living. I have designed 8 motherboards since the 80's. I know what you are saying... it's just we are way above what you are saying.

 

It's not all black and white even from an engineering perspective.

 

Thanks

Gordon

 

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While I respect everyone's opinion, in order to establish credibility for the argument I would ask Gordon to kindly explain exactly WHAT an SSD does to improve performance over an HDD? For the life of me I can't find the technical differences to support this. This is a sincere question BTW. As of now, I am under the impression that as long as the data gets to a DAC with an asynchronous clock signal, that's as good as it gets in the digital domain. EMI,RF, and other artifacts in the bit stream aren't decoded and any well designed DAC will reject almost all noise so what's left? Inquiring minds want to know in a less than general or worse subjective kinda way.

 

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Mayhem,

 

I researched this for months. I even setup elaborate tests using the following setup:

 

ComputerWavelink----SPDIF--->Prism dScope III

 

Also attached were my TEK Scope which can decode I2S streams, Wavecrest DTS Jitter analyzer and my Standford SR760 FFT analyzer which is good to about 1nVrms.

 

These were the things I was looking for answers for:

 

1) USB Cable differences actually I know some reason, I would rather not say what as I am a company that makes product and don't want to offend other companies in my industry.

 

2) Why do applications sound different, when they have exactly the same bit true output. Still not solved... but very easily detectable by all.

 

3) Why does memory, SSD, processor speed, interface etc... sound better. Still unsolved...

 

~~~~~~~

 

John Atkinson and Charlie Hansen both told me... hey you could spend years figuring this out. Now your only delaying your next big invention.

 

 

~~~~~~~

 

As a programmer and a hardware engineer I can tell you what these things mean to me as a person who teaks every ounce of energy out of something. But really none of that matters and is really only speculation.

 

But the fact remains that everyone is in agreement. So by status quo... lets face it, it must be true.

 

I even setup a number of recording studios who say they cannot believe how much better the masters sound.

 

Thanks

Gordon

 

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Steve-

 

Do you understand what a meta message is? It's the message implied by what is said and how it is said.

 

What ever you believed you were saying, what we correctly heard was your voice from on high telling use that we are delusional and stupid. I will venture that this is not the first time you have heard this criticism.

 

As much as I do not want to hear a difference when I change my interconnects from Brand X (which really does sound good and friends ohh and ahh) to, for instance, Nordost Valhallas,there is a tremendous difference...not a small difference.

 

Try it yourself. It's difficult to have anything more than a strong and uninformed opinion without trying the thing you have an opinion about.

 

This is a thread with people with a lot of people with informed opinions/advice. Lurk and learn.

 

In music transmission, everything makes a difference. It's all an intensely interactive process.

 

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Understand your need to be cable "agnostic" as a product manufacturer, but do you have a point of view that you can share on solid silver vs copper USB cables?

 

Have you found a significant difference between the two materials?

 

Cheers,

 

Bill

 

Cheers,

 

Bill

 

 

Mac Mini 2011, 60 gb SSD, 8gb ram; PureMusic & BitPerfect; Wavelength Audio Cosecant V3 DAC; Wireworld Silver Starlight usb interconnect; McIntosh C2200 preamp; pair of McIntosh MC252 SS amps run as monoblocks; vintage MC240 Tube amp and 50th Anniversary MC275 tube amps; Krell LAT-2\'s on Sound Anchors; JL Audio F112 subwoofer; Nirvana SX ltd interconnects and speaker cables and power cords; PS Audio P5

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