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New York Times - all I can say is wow!


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You really need to be clear: are you moaning at people who are listening to MP3; or people listening to rap and watching Hollywood films?

 

Promoting well reproduced music (of whatever type) is one thing; and i would love if more people bought good quality equipment and demanded well recorded (non-compressed high resolution) music. Saying people are wrong for liking their own choice in art is completely another.

 

I didn't say that...I said that RAP was not music...and that it would not endure the test of time. Like my signature notes....

I have found you an argument; I am not obliged to find you any understanding – Samuel Johnson

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Which isn't installed as standard!

 

Android does not work that way...apps are chosen by the user, not Google. Neutron is a better app for sound...This not an Apple Product of take it or leave it. To use an iPod one must use iTunes....There are scores of options in the world of android, and they get better every month. Innovation is the key.

I have found you an argument; I am not obliged to find you any understanding – Samuel Johnson

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I didn't say that...I said that RAP was not music...and that it would not endure the test of time. Like my signature notes....

 

So would anything that follows Call & Response would't be music either?

Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not." — Nelson Pass

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I didn't say that...I said that RAP was not music...and that it would not endure the test of time. Like my signature notes....

Rap is an art form. Weather it stands the test of time is irrelevant.

Eloise

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...in my opinion / experience...

While I agree "Everything may matter" working out what actually affects the sound is a trickier thing.

And I agree "Trust your ears" but equally don't allow them to fool you - trust them with a bit of skepticism.

keep your mind open... But mind your brain doesn't fall out.

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Rap is an art form. Weather it stands the test of time is irrelevant.

 

Someone must like it as it sells....I must note I have never heard anyone playing old RAP. Perhaps it has a shelf life.

I have found you an argument; I am not obliged to find you any understanding – Samuel Johnson

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Android does not work that way...apps are chosen by the user, not Google. Neutron is a better app for sound...This not an Apple Product of take it or leave it. To use an iPod one must use iTunes....There are scores of options in the world of android, and they get better every month. Innovation is the key.

Actually you're right, Samsung, Sony, LG, et al decide which applications to install. You are arguing that Android is better because you can install what apps you like, but you realise the vast majority of Android users use the apps installed by the manufacturer. You are in a minority who install other apps for listening to music.

 

I would put it to you that (again for the averge user not a "power user") Apple have done more to improve the reproduction of music by working with companies such as B&W, Pioneer, Marantz, et al to offer direct USB and AirPlay.

 

As I said earlier, I would wager that an iTunes download played though a speaker dock will sound better than the same listener will have had in the past. Could they get even better: yes but the average listener has never sought better.

 

Eloise

Eloise

---

...in my opinion / experience...

While I agree "Everything may matter" working out what actually affects the sound is a trickier thing.

And I agree "Trust your ears" but equally don't allow them to fool you - trust them with a bit of skepticism.

keep your mind open... But mind your brain doesn't fall out.

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Someone must like it as it sells....I must note I have never heard anyone playing old RAP. Perhaps it has a shelf life.

 

I think in the parlance of the genre, it's called "old school" and yep people still play it. Over the last 25 years it's gone through a couple resurgent trends.

Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not." — Nelson Pass

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Elf, but that was never really my argument. I argue that once a user KNOWS it is possible to get better sound for about the same price, why would they select the poorer quality?

I have found you an argument; I am not obliged to find you any understanding – Samuel Johnson

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Off topic but I am interested in your Android music software mind if I pm you to get more detail?

Android does not work that way...apps are chosen by the user, not Google. Neutron is a better app for sound...This not an Apple Product of take it or leave it. To use an iPod one must use iTunes....There are scores of options in the world of android, and they get better every month. Innovation is the key.
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On reading the article I felt it was a bit too much of oh look there are some young geek hipster types playing music on out of date tech. Now if they had something about high quality computer audio it would have ben more beneficial to their readers to see an alternative. Also do a lot of the good audio makers build in the USA? it would be patriotic too. Hey one of our papers had an article about Medev (sp? Russian PM) having a fair bit of British made audio in his rack.

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I must note I have never heard anyone playing old RAP. Perhaps it has a shelf life.

 

As I've said before, I'm not a great rap fan either, so I tend to avoid listening to it. On that basis, I'm baffled that, given your dislike of the genre, you can be so confident that nobody plays old rap (if that was your meaning)

 

Speaking of old rap, here's a song that's going on 40, has outlived it's creator, still gets played (and if I play it, not being a rap fan, then surely...). Can we give it a pass on the test-of-time exam? Are we allowed to call it art now?

 

 

Actually, this topic got me thinking about how we decide what "is art" and what isn't. Is longevity essential (as James1776 seems to be suggesting) - do we have to wait for a combination of popular opinion and highbrow critics to coalesce? Is technical ability essential (again, as James seems to suggest)? Does it become vandalism or noise pollution if it isn't in a gallery or concert hall (as... ).

 

Also, while I'm on the subject, there's work that has all the qualifying attributes (for me, anyway) - they even live in galleries and concert halls, but I hesitate to use the A word. Examples:

 

 

Capa_Death_of_a_Loyalist_Soldier_zps3c11d759.jpg

 

Gassed_-_Google_Art_Project_zps8a774354.jpg

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That is a good one Souptin.

 

I am not quite certain where one would say rap starts. There is 1920 blues which sounds quite rap like that then bleeds into soul, R&B, skat, beat poetry jazz, et al. Hard not to see it all as a continuum.

Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not." — Nelson Pass

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I was thinking more along the lines of folk/blues. Recitative and antiphonal are a ways out of my area of knowledge...if you want to make a case one way or the other I'll happily listen.[h=1][/h]

Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not." — Nelson Pass

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I was thinking more along the lines of folk/blues. Recitative and antiphonal are a ways out of my area of knowledge...if you want to make a case one way or the other I'll happily listen.

 

Exactly Savage. Call and response (of which a significant component is cadence and rhyme) has very deep roots in many music forms. This is particularly true in many uniquely American forms of music.

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Exactly Savage. Call and response (of which a significant component is cadence and rhyme) has very deep roots in many music forms. This is particularly true in many uniquely American forms of music.

 

Yes! It is one of the good things we have going over here and certainly at the heart of much of our music.

 

I see rap as just another link the whole web of call and response

Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not." — Nelson Pass

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As I've said before, I'm not a great rap fan either, so I tend to avoid listening to it. On that basis, I'm baffled that, given your dislike of the genre, you can be so confident that nobody plays old rap (if that was your meaning)

 

Speaking of old rap, here's a song that's going on 40, has outlived it's creator, still gets played (and if I play it, not being a rap fan, then surely...). Can we give it a pass on the test-of-time exam? Are we allowed to call it art now?

 

 

Actually, this topic got me thinking about how we decide what "is art" and what isn't. Is longevity essential (as James1776 seems to be suggesting) - do we have to wait for a combination of popular opinion and highbrow critics to coalesce? Is technical ability essential (again, as James seems to suggest)? Does it become vandalism or noise pollution if it isn't in a gallery or concert hall (as... ).

 

Also, while I'm on the subject, there's work that has all the qualifying attributes (for me, anyway) - they even live in galleries and concert halls, but I hesitate to use the A word. Examples:

 

 

Capa_Death_of_a_Loyalist_Soldier_zps3c11d759.jpg

 

Gassed_-_Google_Art_Project_zps8a774354.jpg

 

I was perhaps not clear...I should have said something like 'performed by new artists' like most music that has stood the test of time.

I have found you an argument; I am not obliged to find you any understanding – Samuel Johnson

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I was perhaps not clear...I should have said something like 'performed by new artists' like most music that has stood the test of time.

 

So, it's more of personal centophobia then a condemnation of cultural art forms?

Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not." — Nelson Pass

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I was perhaps not clear...I should have said something like 'performed by new artists' like most music that has stood the test of time.

 

Have to say I'm baffled by this one. You mean a song needs to have had a cover version before it can be considered to have any merit? And this after Savage, Snowmonkey and Booster have put in context, clarifying a nice timeline of musical influences which, as well as being an interesting lesson* for me, I think shows rap as a living art form. If you don't like it, wouldn't it be less stressful just to say so instead of trying to prove it isn't art.

 

*Woo, even an old **** like me is able to learn something new!

 

 

Bit dissapointed that an connoisseur like you didn't spot your favourite artist amongst my choices. I worked quite hard to find that one! Most of the other John Singer Sargents look like they belong on chocolate box covers. Nothing particularly wrong with that, of course, just not really my thing. Do like Green & Blacks 80% dark though... (or pretty much any Green & Black)... mmmmmm. I guess I'm a chocolate snob.

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When did reproducibility become a principle of what is art.

 

Mark Rothko

 

I wish that I could reproduce Rothkos. I would fill the house, floor to ceiling with them like some modernist Sistine chapel. Then lay on the floor drooling with my tongue out. Which is pretty close to what happened when I visited the Rothko room at the Tate.

Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not." — Nelson Pass

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I wish that I could reproduce Rothkos. I would fill the house, floor to ceiling with them like some modernist Sistine chapel. Then lay on the floor drooling with my tongue out. Which is pretty close to what happened when I visited the Rothko room at the Tate.

 

I absolutely agree but how may times have you heard "my 6yo daughter could do that".

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I absolutely agree but how may times have you heard "my 6yo daughter could do that".

Usually by someone with their head stuck somewhere.

 

(Good) "Modern" art has an indefinable quality. It's interesting when you study art history discovering what was thought about artists at the time.

 

Will Banksy's art stand the test of time - who knows but I do now it interests people and that's all that matters even if *I* don't like it.

Eloise

---

...in my opinion / experience...

While I agree "Everything may matter" working out what actually affects the sound is a trickier thing.

And I agree "Trust your ears" but equally don't allow them to fool you - trust them with a bit of skepticism.

keep your mind open... But mind your brain doesn't fall out.

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