New York Times - all I can say is wow!

[wgscott]

More NYT advertisement being passed off as reporting:

 

Phonon SMB-02 – Holy Grail | stereoexchange

 

All the News that's Print to Fit. (Noam Chomsky snide comment that is all too true.)

[James1776]

Actually didn't like the article that much. Made it seem like the only thing going on in audio is Vinyl. Barely a mention of real computer audio and hi-res.

I did however, like that they included some relatively low priced audiophile equipment in a list at the end so people could check out how to get into good sound.

 

My fault with the article is the same as my problem with your post...It seems to assume audio is about the front end...I believe the rest of the music chain is about as important and the quality of the media even more so. A poorly maintained dirty record is every bit as annoying as a MP3...A high rez file played back through the computers speakers is still crap. The entire gear chain and the inherent quality of the media and artistic performance all matter. The reason I lost interest in SACD years ago was because of the horrible media that existed at the time. By the time the media caught up to the technology, I had moved on to tubes and good outboartd DAC's....

[James1776]

Spending thousands of dollars for a turntable, CD player, amplifier and so on is lost on 99 percent of those who love music

 

Can anyone who claims to be a music lover really be happy listening to MP3's? Would a true music lover listen to a concert with the piano mistuned?

 

You are right...the letter writer was a tad challenged, or should I say 'special'...

[diver110]

My fault with the article is the same as my problem with your post...It seems to assume audio is about the front end...I believe the rest of the music chain is about as important and the quality of the media even more so. A poorly maintained dirty record is every bit as annoying as a MP3...A high rez file played back through the computers speakers is still crap. The entire gear chain and the inherent quality of the media and artistic performance all matter. The reason I lost interest in SACD years ago was because of the horrible media that existed at the time. By the time the media caught up to the technology, I had moved on to tubes and good outboartd DAC's....

 

I mostly agree with you, though I would not use the word chain, only because it implies that there could be a log jam somewhere that keeps good sound from getting out. I used to think that, but have since learned that it is much more wholistic than that. Everything affects everything. I put together a system for my girl friend where the source is an Iphone 4 (ripped CD's, Apple lossless). Notwithstanding the iffy source, the midrange sound is quite good, epecially for voice and piano, because the other pieces of the systems are decent (old Scott transistor amp from a year they sounded unusually good, upraded Sirocco speakers, Mapleshade interconnect and speaker wires).

[Snowmonkey]

Can anyone who claims to be a music lover really be happy listening to MP3's? Would a true music lover listen to a concert with the piano mistuned?

 

You are right...the letter writer was a tad challenged, or should I say 'special'...

I think you are drawing a bit of a long bow, equating MP3's with a mistuned piano. One is about sound quality and the other is about music quality. I remember being young and broke and listening to my music through a cheap, crappy little portable system and totally loving it. Lousy sound quality, but it was all in tune (apart from the Dylan, but that's another story).

[James1776]

That implies the search for music played properly dies with the cruddy MP3. If folk stop any quest for music sounding right, then that fellow is lost...another fellow who thinks crappy sound is OK. Sort of like the folk who consider graffiti art....and RAP music

[Audio_ELF]

I may be misunderstanding what you are saying but...

 

That implies the search for music played properly dies with the cruddy MP3. If folk stop any quest for music sounding right, then that fellow is lost...another fellow who thinks crappy sound is OK.

I'm sorry ... but sound quality has nothing to do with a love of music! Obviously we have different feelings, but MP3 (or more precisely lossy compression) isn't cruddy. When reading articles like that; I think it's important to remember than a high-end audio system has never been what most people have listened to music on: the majority of people have always used cassettes and "music centers" which often sounded worse than an average iPod dock.

 

Sort of like the folk who consider graffiti art....and RAP music

I'm not sure if you are saying that your opinion is that "folk who consider graffiti art....and RAP music" are wrong - if so you sound like the worst kind of snob. Not all graffiti is art but graffiti CAN be art. Art is just one person's expression of their feelings in a visual or other medium. Equally rap is a form of art and being an audio form IS music and a good rapper has a high level of skill - I don't particularly find rap stimulating to listen to but I can appreciate the skill and artistic merits.

 

Eloise

[Snowmonkey]

 

[Savage]

[firedog]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]6762[/ATTACH]

 

Good one!

[souptin]

 

Surprised Banksy hasn't got a look-in yet.

 

In a sign-of-the-times type twist on the usual, nowadays building owners who have a Banksy on their wall, instead of removing in in the usual way, by painting over or washing off (or even just keeping it because they like it) try to remove the entire section of wall fully intact so as to sell it.

[Savage]

I think there are a few Samo/Basquiat images that have been "mined" from their original buildings and transported to gallery and museum

 

[souptin]

Nikolaj Arndt's amazing 3d pavement art also worth a mention

 

[Audio_ELF]

Nikolaj Arndt's amazing 3d pavement art also worth a mention

 

Now that's dangerous... Doesn't he know to comply with Health and Safety legislation there should be secure fencing all around that hole. And that bridge needs a hand rail for sure!!!

 

Eloise

[Audio_ELF]

 

Surprised Banksy hasn't got a look-in yet.

 

In a sign-of-the-times type twist on the usual, nowadays building owners who have a Banksy on their wall, instead of removing in in the usual way, by painting over or washing off (or even just keeping it because they like it) try to remove the entire section of wall fully intact so as to sell it.

I know there have been some buildings given listed status because of iconic "graffiti"...

[Savage]

The Inside-Out movement which seems to span the entire continent of South America should also get a nod. A very conscious effort to bring art from the museum/gallery to the street...you know..where the people are.

 

São Paulo Street Art - Google Cultural Institute

[James1776]

I may be misunderstanding what you are saying but...

 

 

I'm sorry ... but sound quality has nothing to do with a love of music! Obviously we have different feelings, but MP3 (or more precisely lossy compression) isn't cruddy. When reading articles like that; I think it's important to remember than a high-end audio system has never been what most people have listened to music on: the majority of people have always used cassettes and "music centers" which often sounded worse than an average iPod dock.

 

 

I'm not sure if you are saying that your opinion is that "folk who consider graffiti art....and RAP music" are wrong - if so you sound like the worst kind of snob. Not all graffiti is art but graffiti CAN be art. Art is just one person's expression of their feelings in a visual or other medium. Equally rap is a form of art and being an audio form IS music and a good rapper has a high level of skill - I don't particularly find rap stimulating to listen to but I can appreciate the skill and artistic merits.

 

Eloise

 

Got to disagree on both points...first the easy one....

 

Art, like music, is divided into the great, the not so great and crap....all are defined by longevity. It is why this...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSKnkqAOhpA

 

is music while RAP is gone and forgotten 6 months after release...

 

And 'old' is not the key as most of what the past masters wrote is also simply dross, not meeting the test of time but what remains...is Music!

 

Art

 

 

Vandalism

 

 

I am hardly an expert in either art of music but unlike the old Cheech & Chong bit...

 

 

I do not have to eat it to know what it is...

 

On to the real issue...Every single major change in musical reproduction for the masses over time resulted in music played more convincingly...it simply sounded better. (I am not speaking o comparing someone's $30K vinyl front end with a $500 CD rig but dollar for dollar). The Apple move to MP3 files was the first major change to step back...way back, To sell a vast amount of music that sounds worse than the same music played on gear from the generation before.

 

They sold the idea that a lot of 'music' in the form of compressed files on a cheap device that anyone could operate would be too addictive to refuse, and they were right. The problem is, they then stopped innovating...As long as the iTunes store was selling a vast amount of poorly sounding tracks, all was well.

 

Well, sadly, it is not OK...Today the world if full of folk who want their music to sound as close to the performance and entertainer as possible. They are moving to digital made right...And, amazingly the cost is less....One does not need a $5K CD player to play a high Rez file, just a computer, software and a decent DAC...

 

Why in the name of all the Gods would one listen to MP3's when so much is out there that sounds so much better?

 

One might as well listen of construction sounds or....RAP.

[Audio_ELF]

Okay... Discussions of art (weather visual or music) is a personal decision and its obvious we have different points of view...

On to the real issue...Every single major change in musical reproduction for the masses over time resulted in music played more convincingly...it simply sounded better. (I am not speaking o comparing someone's $30K vinyl front end with a $500 CD rig but dollar for dollar). [/Quote]

Well that's where we differ in opinions.. Cassettes were worse quality than vinyl and reel to reel. CDs were (at least at launch) arguably worse than vinyl. Compressed audio reproduction can be superior to cassette reproduction.

 

The Apple move to MP3 files was the first major change to step back...way back, To sell a vast amount of music that sounds worse than the same music played on gear from the generation before.

You really can't blame Apple. Consumers were downloading (mostly illegally) music in MP3 format a long time before Apple iTunes came along. I would suggest that the compression used (even at launch) was less (128k AAC vs 96k or lower MP3) than the majority of things "offered" on Napster and the few competitors when iTunes Music Store came into being.

 

They sold the idea that a lot of 'music' in the form of compressed files on a cheap device that anyone could operate would be too addictive to refuse, and they were right. The problem is, they then stopped innovating...As long as the iTunes store was selling a vast amount of poorly sounding tracks, all was well.

Actually they responded (unlike the record companies) by offering what people wanted. They did continue innovating - pushing to remove the DRM demanded by the labels and increasing quality to 256k. Yes there is no lossless downloads which I agree is a shame.

 

Well, sadly, it is not OK...Today the world if full of folk who want their music to sound as close to the performance and entertainer as possible. [/Quote]

Sadly that description is of people in a small minority.

 

They are moving to digital made right...And, amazingly the cost is less....One does not need a $5K CD player to play a high Rez file, just a computer, software and a decent DAC...

What world are you living in where the average people spend even half that on a system let alone a DAC? One doesn't need "just a computer, software and a decent DAC" they also need speakers and an amplifier.

 

Why in the name of all the Gods would one listen to MP3's when so much is out there that sounds so much better?

Because they don't care... Sadly not many people count listening to music critically amongst their hobbies. And many don't know what's out there - they are exposed to Bose and systems from the CE giants.

 

I would say what is sad is that people don't know what's out there - systems such as Naim's Uniti need to be out there for the consumers to see; get them into Selfidges and John Lewis.

 

One might as well listen of construction sounds or....RAP.

And round we go again!! :-)

 

Eloise

[NOMBEDES]

I I remember being young and broke and listening to my music through a cheap, crappy little portable system and totally loving it. Lousy sound quality, but it was all in tune (apart from the Dylan, but that's another story).

 

 

 

Well, Dylan was NEVER out of tune. If truth be told, the world is out of tune and Dylan is crystal clear. For example, put "Masters of War" on the stereo and watch clips of Bush 2 and his Iraq War Mystery Tour on the TV with the sound off.

[James1776]

Sadly that description is of people in a small minority.

 

If it was left to the majority the best music produced for the last millennium would not exist...the wax cylinder would have been sufficient, movies would not have sound or color...It is always the few with genius supported by the few with money that moves the bar of greatness...

 

Put in political terms...

 

Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much because they live in that grey twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat – Teddy Roosevelt

 

Society should not strive for mediocrity....

 

What world are you living in where the average people spend even half that on a system let alone a DAC? One doesn't need "just a computer, software and a decent DAC" they also need speakers and an amplifier.

 

I am typing on the music rig I most listen to...

 

Toshiba Satellite PC, windows 7, core i5 processor. - sale at $299

Audioquest dragonfly - $249

J-River software - Under $50

Monsoon Powered Speakers - $100 on E-bay used

 

Sound Files....90% Flac, 9% High rez Flac 24/96 and under 1% MP3

 

Total cost for a music playing system that reveals just how sad Mp3 sounds...Under $700

 

Cost of my last iPod....about $250...

 

Cost of what replaced it

 

Android Razor HD....$depends on your phone company but Verizon was doing a $100 upgrade

USB Audio Recorder pro App - $5

Fiio E07K headphone amp/DAC - $89

Headphones - Beyerdynamic DTX 101 iE In-Ear Headphone - $62

 

Total cost to play High rez Files in high rez - Under $260

 

One does not have to listen to music done poorly...one chooses to

Comparing the iPod to this rig...not possible

[Snowmonkey]

Lousy sound quality, but it was all in tune (apart from the Dylan, but that's another story).

Well, Dylan was NEVER out of tune. If truth be told, the world is out of tune and Dylan is crystal clear. For example, put "Masters of War" on the stereo and watch clips of Bush 2 and his Iraq War Mystery Tour on the TV with the sound off.

Hee hee, just kidding. I totally agree with you. Dylan is (was) the ultimate triumph of musical integrity over a pretty presentation.

[Audio_ELF]

If it was left to the majority the best music produced for the last millennium would not exist...the wax cylinder would have been sufficient, movies would not have sound or color...It is always the few with genius supported by the few with money that moves the bar of greatness...

You're wrong. Wax cylinders gave way to phonograph gave way to vinyl because the majority could hear the difference compared with life and wanted better. The money was there because profits could be made getting reproduction closer to real life. The same with silent movies to the talkies and on to colour. The change to digital has been more brought about as a cost measure than for improvement in quality though a majority of people can spot difference between SD and HD which drove those changes. 3D was driven by technology companies and the demand isn't there...

 

And anyway, for the minority who want better there are options; just as most people are happy with their Honda / Toyota / Ford / Fiat there are also options to buy Ferrari / Mercedes.

 

Society should not strive for mediocrity....

I don't think society does strive for mediocrity; but it places its efforts where they benefit most people.

 

I am typing on the music rig I most listen to...

 

Toshiba Satellite PC, windows 7, core i5 processor. - sale at $299

Audioquest dragonfly - $249

J-River software - Under $50

Monsoon Powered Speakers - $100 on E-bay used

 

Sound Files....90% Flac, 9% High rez Flac 24/96 and under 1% MP3

 

Total cost for a music playing system that reveals just how sad Mp3 sounds...Under $700

Yes: but the average consumer is never going to get exposed to that.

 

Cost of my last iPod....about $250...

 

Cost of what replaced it

 

Android Razor HD....$depends on your phone company but Verizon was doing a $100 upgrade

USB Audio Recorder pro App - $5

Fiio E07K headphone amp/DAC - $89

Headphones - Beyerdynamic DTX 101 iE In-Ear Headphone - $62

 

Total cost to play High rez Files in high rez - Under $260

 

One does not have to listen to music done poorly...one chooses to

Comparing the iPod to this rig...not possible

No, because you are comparing apples to oranges. The only think that you couldn't do with an iPhones is play 24/96. You can add an external DAC though yes it has to be approved as compatible. But the biggest upgrade is the separate headphone amp (IMO) not the DAC within the Fiio.

 

Straight out the box compare lossless on each device ... The Apple device is certainly in the same ballpark as other devices.

 

Oh and Google won't sell you lossless music to play on your device either so blame them too for the proliferation of MP3/AAC.

 

Eloise

[souptin]

One might as well listen of construction sounds or....RAP.

 

I'm not much of a rap fan either. But, in defence of pop culture, whether its books, art, cinema or music:

 

1 - Even when it's a theme, the same three chords, one of the seven (?) possible story lines, that's been done many times before, and probably many times better, I think there's a value in the update. Perhaps it reveals something about contemporary life, perhaps it's the enthusiasm of a young artist that gives some energy to the work, I don't know.

 

2 - Instead of being filtered through the opinions of critics, historians and it's popularity at the time of creation, with contemporary work, I feel like I'm the one who decides if it's any good or not. No famous critic to contradict my opinion, no test of time... just me.

 

Of course some people are better at ignoring other's opinions - not such a great characteristic on a forum, but an advantage if you want to enjoy classic art with a fresh mind. Equally, with the internet even day-old work can quickly gather opinions, albeit without the same weight as opinions gathered over time.

 

Anyway, back to rap:

 

"Just once, I would like to hear you scream..."

 

[video=youtube;-UNQzBynaQY]

[Snowmonkey]

I listen to compressed music on my car stereo, because I'd rather do that than miss out.

[James1776]

-I don't think society does strive for mediocrity; but it places its efforts where they benefit most people.

 

Look at this years Hollywood offerings....mediocrity is the word of the day....And Rap, will, it strives to reach the mediocre..

 

 

Yes: but the average consumer is never going to get exposed to that.

 

That is why folk should Proselytize ... Like the X-Files, the audio truth is out there...

 

 

No, because you are comparing apples to oranges. The only think that you couldn't do with an iPhones is play 24/96. You can add an external DAC though yes it has to be approved as compatible. But the biggest upgrade is the separate headphone amp (IMO) not the DAC within the Fiio.

 

Straight out the box compare lossless on each device ... The Apple device is certainly in the same ballpark as other devices.

 

Oh and Google won't sell you lossless music to play on your device either so blame them too for the proliferation of MP3/AAC.

 

Eloise

 

Out of the box one runs into the limits and exasperation of iTunes and the cost of getting 'i' compliant outboard DAC's....No USB out. No open source software where anyone can build an app that works on an android device.

 

One does not need Google for media. The internet is full of sources...One does not have to settle for mediocre, people choose to.