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Wyred 4 Sound Dac2SE Upgrade Revisited & Findings -- The Best Decision Unequivocally!


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Hi Guys,

I now have 250 hours on the upgraded DAC 2v2se and I am very pleased with the increased performance of  the DAC. I will like to acquire the upgraded Singxer SU-1 with PliXiR Elite BDC mod but Sound Affairs cannot confirm that W4S capacitor upgrade will be implemented. I have contacted Singxer who seems not to be aware of the capacitance of the capacitor and therefore cannot implement the mod. Are there any thoughts on how one should proceed?  

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1 hour ago, ksalno said:

I read through that thread. My understanding is that the problem being discussed there is that the right and left channel are swapped on the i2s output from the Singxer going into the DAC2 i2s input. I suppose this is another result of there being no "standard" for i2s as a device to device interconnect. To fix this problem, Singxer has issued a new firmware. So there are two version of firmware and you have to try them both to see which one is right for your DAC. I'll need to do some testing today to see if this is even a problem with the DAC2 and, if it is, which of the two firmware correct it. I will post back my findings. As for the signals coming from the SU-1 being out of phase, I don't think swapping the R and L channels will fix that. 

 

No, the firmware solves only the inversion of the channels but not the inversion of the phase that with singxer connected through I2S to W4S remain 180° inverted reproducing dsd. With pcm all is ok .

Summarizing the Singxer's firmwares solve only channels inversion but not the phase.

For example Hydra z has two internal switch, one for channels iversion and one for the phase.

I'm insisting with Singxer suggesting to have a modified 2.02 firmware but with the phase inverted for dsd reproduction through I2S connection with W4S  ([email protected])

I think they have the same problem with HOLO Dac but they haven't noticed it.....

Please Franatic and all the others owners of Singxer SU-1 + W4S Dac 2 to help me writing to Singxer about this problem...

I'm doing my best but together we should have more impact.

I've suggested also Singxer, Mr Chen, to read these topic, I hope they will work on it because dsd through I2S is the best way lo listen our W4S in my opinion

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Just now, Ienag said:

 

No, the firmware solves only the inversion of the channels but not the inversion of the phase that with singxer connected through I2S to W4S remain 180° inverted reproducing dsd. With pcm all is ok .

Summarizing the Singxer's firmwares solve only channels inversion but not the phase.

For example Hydra z has two internal switch, one for channels iversion and one for the phase.

I'm insisting with Singxer suggesting to have a modified 2.02 firmware but with the phase inverted for dsd reproduction through I2S connection with W4S  ([email protected])

I think they have the same problem with HOLO Dac but they haven't noticed it.....

Please Franatic and all the others owners of Singxer SU-1 + W4S Dac 2 to help me writing to Singxer about this problem...

I'm doing my best but together we should have more impact.

I've suggested also Singxer, Mr Chen, to read these topic, I hope they will work on it because dsd through I2S is the best way lo listen our W4S in my opinion

Hi Andrea, I've been very busy this week so I have not been able to put my attention on this properly, I apologize for that. Therefore I've been limited in my comprehension of the issues here. It seems you have worked out the specifics of the DSD issue. Please give me Mr. Chen's contact info and I will send him an email. This Singxer is a fantastic sounding product. It is worth pursuing the solution to these issues.

I bought my Singxer for $359 through Kipo Audio of China on Amazon. They are  no longer selling the Singxer so it is not through them I will get any results.

2 modified PCs in a streamer with WS2012/ AO 2.20/ Jplay 7/ Fidelizer Pro 8.2/ Process Lasso/

Pachanko lan cables & PPA ethernet switch between pcs > Audio PC JCat Femto usb audio card > iFi Gemini 3.0 dual headed usb cable > iFi iGalvanic > iFi iUsb power 3.0   > iFi iPurifier 3 > Singxer SU-1 (i2s out) > Wyred 4 Sound DAC2V2 DSDse >

1) maxed out Woo WA2 > Beyerdynamic T1 w/ Forza Noir hybrid cable mod

2) Woo WA2 pre amp > Exposure 2010S2 Int Amp + Exposure 2010S2 Power Amp > Von Gaylord Legend Speakers + REL T-5 Sub-Bass System

***Audio system powered by two Equi=Core 300 balanced power sources                                                       

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Did some more investigation this morning. First, the PS Audio DSD DAC works fine with the SU-1 with all switches off, firmware 2.02, and the latest Windows USB driver. DSD and PCM all resolutions without problem. No phase issues either. It doesn't support Native DSD but that is probably an issue with the PS Audio DAC and DoP works fine, therefore not really an issue. One thing I did discover is that the HDMI cable length really matters. I use a WW Platinum Starlight 0.3m from the SU-1 to the DAC. When I tested the PS Audio DAC I needed a longer cable so I grabbed a 1m AQ Cinnamon cable from my box. It worked for PCM but wouldn't pass DSD. I re-positioned the SU-1 so I could use the WW 0.3m cable and problem solved.

 

So there is clearly an incompatibility between the SU-1 and the W4S DAC2. As there is no "standard" for i2s each side is pointing the finger at the other. I'm working through Tim at Kitsune, where I bought my SU-1 and their PliXir PS upgrade, and have sent him all the information regarding the capacitor values and Frantic's picture of how it is connected. Tim is at an audio show this weekend, so I don't expect to hear anything back until next week. 

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20 minutes ago, Franatic said:

Hi Andrea, I've been very busy this week so I have not been able to put my attention on this properly, I apologize for that. Therefore I've been limited in my comprehension of the issues here. It seems you have worked out the specifics of the DSD issue. Please give me Mr. Chen's contact info and I will send him an email. This Singxer is a fantastic sounding product. It is worth pursuing the solution to these issues.

I bought my Singxer for $359 through Kipo Audio of China on Amazon. They are  no longer selling the Singxer so it is not through them I will get any results.

 

Singxer contact:  [email protected]

I think it is interest of Singxer to solve that problem

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Just now, Ienag said:

 

Singxer contact:  [email protected]

I think it is interest of Singxer to solve that problem

I sent a detailed email and used my best skills to try to persuade Mr Chen to get involved here. Let's see what Singxer does and if they are willing to take a lead role.

2 modified PCs in a streamer with WS2012/ AO 2.20/ Jplay 7/ Fidelizer Pro 8.2/ Process Lasso/

Pachanko lan cables & PPA ethernet switch between pcs > Audio PC JCat Femto usb audio card > iFi Gemini 3.0 dual headed usb cable > iFi iGalvanic > iFi iUsb power 3.0   > iFi iPurifier 3 > Singxer SU-1 (i2s out) > Wyred 4 Sound DAC2V2 DSDse >

1) maxed out Woo WA2 > Beyerdynamic T1 w/ Forza Noir hybrid cable mod

2) Woo WA2 pre amp > Exposure 2010S2 Int Amp + Exposure 2010S2 Power Amp > Von Gaylord Legend Speakers + REL T-5 Sub-Bass System

***Audio system powered by two Equi=Core 300 balanced power sources                                                       

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It could be also useful if someone could report the iussue also to Kitsune to exhort Singxer to provide a solution.

I have done it with Shentzenaudio because I've bought my SU-1 by them.

Hoping something will happen....

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4 hours ago, Ienag said:

It could be also useful if someone could report the iussue also to Kitsune to exhort Singxer to provide a solution.

I have done it with Shentzenaudio because I've bought my SU-1 by them.

Hoping something will happen....

As I mentioned in my previous post, I've already provided Kitsune with all of the details, including pictures. Tim is supposed to be communicating directly with the factory, so we'll have to wait to see what the response is. I know they are at a SoCal hifi show this weekend, so I don't expect to hear anything until Mon-Tue at the earliest.

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Another substantial correction respet o what you see on Singxer and Kitsune website:

 

 "SU-1 digital interface is Singxer team developed a high-performance USB digital audio interface, using the latest XMOS family and Xilinx high-performance CPLD / FPGA chip. SU-1 is the rare use femtosecond system clock digital interface, Crystek of two CCHD-957 SU-1 crystal is the ultimate output audio signal quality has laid a solid foundation. SU-1 digital input interface using a standard USB2.0 interface"

 

 

The clock chips used in my SU-1 are two Crystek 575 and not 957. There is a big difference between them in terms of performance and also cost.

Naturaly you can replace them at your own capability and expenses

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11 hours ago, Ienag said:

Another substantial correction respet o what you see on Singxer and Kitsune website:

 

 "SU-1 digital interface is Singxer team developed a high-performance USB digital audio interface, using the latest XMOS family and Xilinx high-performance CPLD / FPGA chip. SU-1 is the rare use femtosecond system clock digital interface, Crystek of two CCHD-957 SU-1 crystal is the ultimate output audio signal quality has laid a solid foundation. SU-1 digital input interface using a standard USB2.0 interface"

 

 

The clock chips used in my SU-1 are two Crystek 575 and not 957. There is a big difference between them in terms of performance and also cost.

Naturaly you can replace them at your own capability and expenses

I see them listed at Mouser ~$25-30, depending.

http://www.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?N=4292773686&Keyword=CCHD-957

Which specific 957 clock chips do we need? I will consider upgrading them. I assume my unit has the 575s.

 

Leter, we understand working out solutions to the 3 issues (word clock line, 180 degree phasing, channel swap) will take a little time. We are happy to see you on this thread and to know you are supporting the W4S i2s users. If we get this right, there will be many more.

 

BTW W4S, the Upgraded 9038 Dac is superb. Playing with such a higher level of command, presence and musicality! Can't stop listening. It has really opened up over the last 100 hours and created greater depth and a larger soundstage here. I'm at around 200 hours.

2 modified PCs in a streamer with WS2012/ AO 2.20/ Jplay 7/ Fidelizer Pro 8.2/ Process Lasso/

Pachanko lan cables & PPA ethernet switch between pcs > Audio PC JCat Femto usb audio card > iFi Gemini 3.0 dual headed usb cable > iFi iGalvanic > iFi iUsb power 3.0   > iFi iPurifier 3 > Singxer SU-1 (i2s out) > Wyred 4 Sound DAC2V2 DSDse >

1) maxed out Woo WA2 > Beyerdynamic T1 w/ Forza Noir hybrid cable mod

2) Woo WA2 pre amp > Exposure 2010S2 Int Amp + Exposure 2010S2 Power Amp > Von Gaylord Legend Speakers + REL T-5 Sub-Bass System

***Audio system powered by two Equi=Core 300 balanced power sources                                                       

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Thanks Leang. Yes, I will check. There are 2 to be replaced and they are identical, correct?

I have a coworker who is very good at micro soldering and desoldering. :)

2 modified PCs in a streamer with WS2012/ AO 2.20/ Jplay 7/ Fidelizer Pro 8.2/ Process Lasso/

Pachanko lan cables & PPA ethernet switch between pcs > Audio PC JCat Femto usb audio card > iFi Gemini 3.0 dual headed usb cable > iFi iGalvanic > iFi iUsb power 3.0   > iFi iPurifier 3 > Singxer SU-1 (i2s out) > Wyred 4 Sound DAC2V2 DSDse >

1) maxed out Woo WA2 > Beyerdynamic T1 w/ Forza Noir hybrid cable mod

2) Woo WA2 pre amp > Exposure 2010S2 Int Amp + Exposure 2010S2 Power Amp > Von Gaylord Legend Speakers + REL T-5 Sub-Bass System

***Audio system powered by two Equi=Core 300 balanced power sources                                                       

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On 4/9/2017 at 6:33 PM, Ienag said:

There are two identical, you are right.

It appears the Crystek 575s are not identical. They are both 575-25 but the frequencies are different. One is 22.5792 MHz and the other 24.576 MHz. I am in contact with Leter from Singxer and will get clarification of the 957 replacement crystals. He is looking into our SU-1 issues.

2 modified PCs in a streamer with WS2012/ AO 2.20/ Jplay 7/ Fidelizer Pro 8.2/ Process Lasso/

Pachanko lan cables & PPA ethernet switch between pcs > Audio PC JCat Femto usb audio card > iFi Gemini 3.0 dual headed usb cable > iFi iGalvanic > iFi iUsb power 3.0   > iFi iPurifier 3 > Singxer SU-1 (i2s out) > Wyred 4 Sound DAC2V2 DSDse >

1) maxed out Woo WA2 > Beyerdynamic T1 w/ Forza Noir hybrid cable mod

2) Woo WA2 pre amp > Exposure 2010S2 Int Amp + Exposure 2010S2 Power Amp > Von Gaylord Legend Speakers + REL T-5 Sub-Bass System

***Audio system powered by two Equi=Core 300 balanced power sources                                                       

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To be honest I'm having some problem with Mr. Chen (leter) because I can't understand if Singxer is really working on the iussues about I2S/dsd/inverted phase or not.

For example Hydra z by Audiobyte has a dedicated switch only for the phase and I have suggested to Sjngxer to make the same with another firmware that could invert only the phase .

I didn't like the answer that suggest to listen dsd with coax.... really unpleasant.

It seems to me they are taking time without the real intention to solve anything.

If this is the case I can't do anything else apart suggest to avoid the purchase of SU-1 because Singxer is still no mature and doesn't want admit an error in the project (this is my opinion). 

Naturally I hope I'm wrong.... but also the false information about the use of Crystek 957 jn SU-1 is not serious for a Manufacturer.

I'm ready to change idea but for the moment only W4S demostrated a real customer attention.

Singxer through this forum and topic could have been in contact with all its clients with the same problems....

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Man this DAC sounds fabulous after the upgrade. Brass and drums are killer.

Furutech GTX-D, GTX Wall Plate,106-D Cover > NCF Clearline >J River 27 > Curious Cable Evolved USB > Chord Hugo TT 2 > Empyrean Copper PCUHD Cable > Meze Empyrean > my ears > audiophile brain

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I agree,  mine is fully broken in and it sounds incredible.   While DSD sounds better than ever (I only have a few titles),  I'm almost more impressed with how redbook  sounds.  I was listening to some Daina Krall last night and it was like she was in the room.  Fantastic!

2 Channel: Mac Mini late 2014 w/JRiver> Audioquest Diamond USB > Wyred Recovery > Curious Cable USB > Wyred DAC-2v2 SE> MIT Shotgun S1 XLR ICs > Mcintosh C2300 > MIT Shotgun S2 XLR ICs> Mcintosh MC302 > MIT Shotgun S1 > Martin Logan Vantage Speakers

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Hi SU-1 owners,

I have been in contact with Leter of Singxer.    [email protected]  

We have communicated about the SU-1/W4S i2s issues. Leter has stated to me a commitment to investigate and find solutions to the issues. He has tried to register on the forum but for some reason can't. He has asked me to forward some statements for the SU-1/W4S issues:

Leter says:

1.First of all, thank you for all consumers's support for our products;

We will provide quality after-sales service.

2.We have been paying attention to and solving this problem since the customer response.

i had send an email to Tony(wyred4sound).we will discuss how to solve this problem.

3.i had buy a W4S DAC2SE(the 9018 version). I will receive it tomorrow.Then conduct a comprehensive test.

4.W4S had moded a SU-1 for Fran.If anyone wants to try this method,we can ship him some capacitors for free shipment.

*******************************************************************************

I am very happy to see the commitment from Singxer to solve this issue. We know it is a new device and i2s is a format that seems to have various protocols. I am pleased that W4S and Singxer will work together to make the units i2s compatible. That Singxer has bought a DAC2 to work this out shows a sense of responsibility to support their products.

2 modified PCs in a streamer with WS2012/ AO 2.20/ Jplay 7/ Fidelizer Pro 8.2/ Process Lasso/

Pachanko lan cables & PPA ethernet switch between pcs > Audio PC JCat Femto usb audio card > iFi Gemini 3.0 dual headed usb cable > iFi iGalvanic > iFi iUsb power 3.0   > iFi iPurifier 3 > Singxer SU-1 (i2s out) > Wyred 4 Sound DAC2V2 DSDse >

1) maxed out Woo WA2 > Beyerdynamic T1 w/ Forza Noir hybrid cable mod

2) Woo WA2 pre amp > Exposure 2010S2 Int Amp + Exposure 2010S2 Power Amp > Von Gaylord Legend Speakers + REL T-5 Sub-Bass System

***Audio system powered by two Equi=Core 300 balanced power sources                                                       

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On a slightly different topic , I have a 2v2SE and wonder if anyone here have used the Wyred4sound Dac with a PS Audio Perfect Wave Transport ?

I'm having an issue with no signal through the 12s connection however the other outputs on the PWTransport work flawlessly with the 2v2SE .

 

For those whom are currently using this combination or have once paired these components in the past have you experienced any issues with the 12s HDMI connections with either component ?

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Thanks, Fran, you made a lot more progress than Kitstune, which is the US distributor. I sent them all of the info from this forum including pictures but they say they have not heard anything from Shenzhen Audio. I appreciate everything you've done. I was getting ready to send my SU-1 to W4S for the cap mod but I think I will hold off until Leter finishes his testing.

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3 hours ago, Wizzer said:

On a slightly different topic , I have a 2v2SE and wonder if anyone here have used the Wyred4sound Dac with a PS Audio Perfect Wave Transport ?

I'm having an issue with no signal through the 12s connection however the other outputs on the PWTransport work flawlessly with the 2v2SE .

 

For those whom are currently using this combination or have once paired these components in the past have you experienced any issues with the 12s HDMI connections with either component ?

Is the issue with all formats or just DSD?

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