Wyred 4 Sound Dac2SE Upgrade Revisited & Findings -- The Best Decision Unequivocally!

[longbowbbs]

Richard, I am doing well. Since the DAC2 DSDse works so flawlessly, I have not had much to say around here. It was great to see EJ and Tony again. They are close to releasing their new headphone amp too. Good times are coming!

[REShaman]

Richard, I am doing well. Since the DAC2 DSDse works so flawlessly, I have not had much to say around here. It was great to see EJ and Tony again. They are close to releasing their new headphone amp too. Good times are coming!

 

Amen to that! Flawless is the operative word. When I think about when I started with W4S components and the series of updates to what my system has become and what it delivers and how it has almost been perfect without a problem from the Dac2 DSDse, the STP-SE Stage2, the SX-1000 mono blocks, I am blessed to have stumbled on W4S. Plus the output is superb.

 

Then what would make me invest a tidy sum in what's coming? Because splendid can be more splendid.

 

Thank you for dropping by. Always a pleasure. EJ offered to send more photographs when they become available. I'll post them here, of course.

 

Best,

Richard

[kilroy]

On the phone with EJ two days ago trying to troubleshoot an issue with my DSDse. Hopefully it’s just the remote, and a new one is on the way.

 

While we talked he related a few points about a new DAC coming out of W4S sometime next year. Perhaps this info is already out there but I thought this would be an appropriate place for W4S fans to see the news.

 

Modular build, with various options for the purchaser

 

I2S input will be included

 

Possible dual Sabre DACs option

 

Large front indicator window (LED/LCD?)

 

Higher SQ than the existing product line

 

And naturally, a higher cost

 

Good news, and this will be on my short list of possible upgrades.

[dean70]

I have always been puzzled why DSD sounds more "boxed in" compared to hi-res PCM when played through the Dac2-DSDse.

 

Was listening to some hi-res Led Zeppelin 96k PCM converted DSD-128 in HQPlayer & discovered what causes the somewhat "boxed in" DSD sound. One of the tracks "Achilles Last Stand" has some wide phase angle sections on the vocals where in PCM mode, it sounds like Robert Plant is singing literally directly into your left ear (which was kind of spooky when I first heard it). When I play this back converted to DSD128, this section is barely audible.

 

It seems like the DAC internally is attenuating anything with a wide phase angle which would normally create an expanded sound stage if playing as DSD.

 

I have absorbing room treatments installed at the first reflection points and poly-diffusers just in front of the listening position.

[jimmy.kl]

Are any DAC2 DSDse owners with a Mac running El Capitan 10.11?

 

I just received my DAC and hooked it via USB but am getting static over the music. I tried installing the Yosemite driver from the W4S site but it had no effect.

 

Using Audivarna+ for playback works (and sounds outstanding!) except for 16/44.1 files ie. 90% of my music :-/

 

FWIW Windows with drivers is working but I'd prefer to stay with OS X…

 

Cheers,

Jimmy

[mario620]

Found the setting in Audirvana+

 

I have the same issue, where did you find the setting in audirvana?

[RunHomeSlow]

Are any DAC2 DSDse owners with a Mac running El Capitan 10.11?

 

I just received my DAC and hooked it via USB but am getting static over the music. I tried installing the Yosemite driver from the W4S site but it had no effect.

 

Using Audivarna+ for playback works (and sounds outstanding!) except for 16/44.1 files ie. 90% of my music :-/

 

FWIW Windows with drivers is working but I'd prefer to stay with OS X…

 

Cheers,

Jimmy

 

 

i'm running 10.11.1 with no problem, even upsampling at max dac capacity in settings... mac mini early 2009

you don't need any driver with it... trash it

[jimmy.kl]

i'm running 10.11.1 with no problem, even upsampling at max dac capacity in settings... mac mini early 2009

you don't need any driver with it... trash it

 

Thanks RunHomeSlow

 

Weirdly after more thorough testing the static occurs only on the USB input playing compressed files (on both OS X and Windows - my initial post was incorrect). i.e. FLAC and ALAC are OK but MP3, AAC and OGG = static.

 

I've been using the DAC via Toslink with great results on any files but would prefer to use USB so I'm working with Wyred4Sound on diagnosing the problem.

[KDinsmore]

I wonder how the DAC 2-DSDse stacks up against the Schitt Yggy?

[REShaman]

I wonder how the DAC 2-DSDse stacks up against the Schitt Yggy?

 

Hello KDinsmore,

 

Other than specific specifications, are you referring to the SQ output of one compared to the other in the same system when employing other than DSD enabled vs not enabled, or sample rate limited to 192/24 vs 384/24, or Femto Clock vs (what does the Yggy employ that is comparable?), oh, a regenerator: 5 VCO/VCXOIndicator. Also known as the“buy better gear” light.If this is illuminated,the Yggdrasil’s inputclock regeneration(Adapticlock) is in VCO mode, orlower-quality mode.This means yoursource does notprovide a good centerfrequency, or jitter istoo high for the better VCXO mode to operate.

I am not aware of CA ever reviewing the Wyred 4 Sound Dac2 in any edition since I became a member in 2011.

 

And I have no experience with other than the Dac2 DSDse. It would be interesting if someone with both Dacs and a room with several others in attendance to assess the results could comment and share their findings with sensory specificity no matter how subjectiive.

 

In supplying the specifications (which alone don't translate into what one hears vs what one reads) of the W4S Dac2 DSDse, I did not intentionally exclude the text of the Yggy specifications. Their website is designed with reverse print (grey on black) which when copied is not legible. Wait, found a page that I can copy so I am including those specifications.

 

And, I left out that the Dac2 DSDse has a remote and volume level control which the Yggy doesn't. I believe the remote is a gift to me given how I use it and for what. For volume levels, only setting the min/max is important to me, as I employ the W4S STP-SE Stage 2 for volume setting. Mike Moffat suggests one needs to go elsewhere if certain "extras" are desired. That's his perspective. As far as SQ is concerned which is my highest value and criterion, the remote does nothing to further that unless SQ is measured from remaining in my listening chair and "regulating" certain operations on the Dac 2 DSDse which I am grateful to be able to accomplish. There's more but I am guessing the real value in one over the other is the enjoyment of the music delivered. N'est-ce pas?

 

But one can visit those specifications at Schiit Audio, Headphone amps and DACs made in USA. to compare both as to what's in the mix.

 

I would be interested to learn for myself. I do enjoy the DSD enabled and sample rate range of the Dac2 DSDse. But I realize that alone does not obviate which SQ one might prefer for the same track being played through both Dacs and the results as it reveals the enjoyment of music.

 

In any case, if some member can post their findings reliably about a comparison, they are welcome to post here.

 

Enjoy the music,

Richard

 

Re: Specifications of the Dac2 DSDse,

 

You

 

Standard DAC-2 Features

 

• ESS Reference audio (ES9018) 32 bit DAC
  
• W4S proprietary discrete output stages for optimum sonics
  
• ESS Time Domain Jitter Eliminator®
  
• Automatic oversampling for precise output filtering
  
• Fully balanced design with balanced and unbalanced outputs
  
• Upgradable Digital, Output, and USB boards (designed for future improvements)
  
• Oversized toroidal transformer for solid and noise-free power
  
• 88,000uF of filtering with W4S low ESR "super-cap" (same as used in the STP-SE)
  
• VFD display for input, sample rate, volume control, and configuration viewing
  
• Remote control with features such as balance control and phase inversion
  
• Defeatable - 32 bit volume control
  
• HT Bypass inputs (selectable via DC trigger)
  
• 2x Coax inputs
  
• 2x Toslink inputs
  
• 1x AES/EBU input
  
• 1x Balanced I2S input via HDMI cable (not standard HDMI cable format)
  
• 24-bit 192kHz Asynchronous USB input
  
• Proprietary drivers for 32/64 bit Windows XP, Vista, 7 and Mac OS 10.4, 10.5 , 10.6, 10.8, 10.9 (BETA)
  
• Factory selectable mains 115/230VAC
  
• Compact size (8.5"W x 4.125"H x 13.5"D)
  
• 14 lbs.
  
• Covered by a 5 YEAR WARRANTY
  

DAC-2 DSD Upgrades:

• Asynchronous USB input supports up to 32-bit 384kHz PCM and DSD64 + DSD128
  
• Improved audio quality through USB input
  
• USB 2.0 compliancy & ASIO 2.2 (Drivers support for Mac and Linux systems)
  
• Galvanic isolation
  

DAC-2 DSDse Upgrades:

 

• Asynchronous USB input supports up to 32-bit 384kHz PCM and DSD64 + DSD128
  
• Improved audio quality through USB input
  
• USB 2.0 compliancy & ASIO 2.2 (Driverless support for Mac and Linux systems)
  
• Galvanic isolation
  
• Custom Vishay Z-Foil resistors (0.1% tolerance and a +/-0.5ppm/°C)
  
• Femto Grade Clock (82 fSec phase jitter)
  
• Ultra-low noise discrete regulators (100+ times quieter and faster than the stock regulator)
  
• Ultra-fast recovery Schottkey diodes
  
• Premium grade inductors
  
• Rhodium plated Furutech fuse
  
• Green OLED display for input, sample rate, volume control, and configuration viewing
  

SPECS

 

 

 

 

Inputs: AES/EBU XLR, RCA SPDIF, BNC SPDIF, Optical SPDIF, USBInput Capability: up to 24/192 for all inputs

Input Receiver, SPDIF: AKM 4313

Input Receiver, USB: C-Media CM6632

Clock Management: Bitperfect clock management at all nativesample rates via Adapticlock analysis and VCXO/VCO regeneration,plus asynchronous USB Gen 3 module

Digital Filter: proprietary Schiit bitperfect closed-form digital filterimplemented on Analog Devices SHARC DSP processors

D/A Conversion IC: Analog Devices AD5791 x 4 (2 per channel,hardware balanced configuration)

Analog Stages: Fully discrete JFET buffers for balanced outputand discrete JFET summing stages for single-ended output, directcoupled

Output: One pair XLR balanced and two pairs RCA single-endedOutput Impedance: 75 ohms

Frequency Response, Analog Stage: 20Hz-20Khz, +/-0.1dB,0.5Hz-100KHz, -1dB

Maximum Output: 4.0V RMS (balanced), 2.0V RMS (single-ended)

 

THD: Less than 0.006%, 20Hz-20KHz, at full outputIMD: <0.007%, CCIR

SNR: > 117dB, referenced to 2V RMS

Power Supply: two transformers (one for digital supplies, onefor analog supplies) plus one choke for discrete, dual mono,shunt-regulated analog +/-24V supply, plus 12 separate localregulated supplies for DACs and digital sections, includinghigh-precision, low-noise LM723 regulation in critical areas.

Upgradability: Fully modular architecture. Separate digital inputboard, USB input board, DSP engine board, and DAC/analog outputboards.

Power Consumption: 40WSize: 16 x 12” x 3.875”Weight: 21 lbs

[KDinsmore]

Whew! Thanks for the post!

[TechHiFi]

Regen and Jitterbug definitely live up to the hype! Thanks Richard for the thoughtful analysis.

[REShaman]

Regen and Jitterbug definitely live up to the hype! Thanks Richard for the thoughtful analysis.

 

Hello,

 

Happy the synergy works for you. Given the variety of responses from CA members, i.e. Those in favor of the combination and those who find the AQJB unacceptable, I merely taken in the feedback as what others experience. I continue to enjoy the compliment of both devices that serve to render the SQ better in tandem than with the Regen alone. Clearly there is no consensus; and I imagine it's what members discover only after applying both devices. The descriptions from those who removed the AQJB from their system seem quite foreign to me as I experience something diametrically opposed. So be it.

 

Glad when it works.

 

Enjoy the music,

Richard

[mourip]

I wonder how the DAC 2-DSDse stacks up against the Schitt Yggy?

 

There is another thread in the CA DAC forum with a lot of impressions of the Yggy including some subjective descriptions by owners with W4S DAC2se's.

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/schiit-yggdrasil-best-digital-analogue-converter-available-24351/

[REShaman]

Dear All:

 

I decided to take advantage of the pre-order price point and ordered W4S's Recovery USB Reclocker during the Holidays. While I presently employ UpTone Audio's Regen, JS-2 LPS, MMK and two AudioQuest JitterBugs what purpose do I have in ordering the Recovery?

 

That's what I intend to discover what, if anything, the Recovery will do for my Dac2 DSDse. As some member users employ two (2) Regens and have assessed an improvement, I am interested first in replacing the Regen with the Recovery and determining the outcome for the SQ. Secondly, I intend to return the Regen and employ both together, Regen and Recovery, if that is workable and determine the outcome for the SQ.

 

I won't speculate in advance what I expect. How would I know until I know.

 

The Recovery is marketed as follows: "The Recovery completely restores the original integrity of the USB signal. Usage couldn't be simpler: just insert the Recovery between USB source and DAC and instantly enjoy the benefits of a clean signal and much improved sonic quality. This very cost-effective upgrade is sure to be the new "no brainer" in digital audio!"

 

The features are as follows:

• USB B input / USB A output
  
• Ultra-quiet power supply (less than 13 μvolts)
  
• Isolated 5V power output
  
• Femto clocking
  
• Small, lightweight aluminum case with laser engraving
  
• 5 year warranty
  
• Included in package: Recovery unit, USB A to B cable (Recovery to DAC), External wall-type PSU
  

I am doing this merely for the discovery aspect. I am not unhappy with the Regen. But it did require the AQJBs to bring into the SQ range I prefer. I am waiting to learn what the Recovery will do on its own and in tandem with the Regen and AQJB.

 

Best,

Richard

 

[audio.bill]

Richard - I look forward to the results of your comparisons. I would respectfully suggest that you put them in a new thread specifically about the W4S Recovery so that other interested members can easily find it. TIA for your time!

[rah50]

Richard - I look forward to the results of your comparisons. I would respectfully suggest that you put them in a new thread specifically about the W4S Recovery so that other interested members can easily find it. TIA for your time!

 

+1

[REShaman]

Richard - I look forward to the results of your comparisons. I would respectfully suggest that you put them in a new thread specifically about the W4S Recovery so that other interested members can easily find it. TIA for your time!

 

Hello Bill,

 

I agree. Sorry. I'll create the thread immediately in the same Sub-forum, i.e., Dac etc.

 

Best,

Richard

[kennyb123]

I am doing this merely for the discovery aspect. I am not unhappy with the Regen. But it did require the AQJBs to bring into the SQ range I prefer. I am waiting to learn what the Recovery will do on its own and in tandem with the Regen and AQJB.

 

Richard - if you are using the solid adapter between your Regen & your DAC, you may want evaluate replacing it with the Curious Cable Regen Link. I reported my findings here. I just ordered one of these for myself. I can't wait! Note that I also use my Regen in tandem with a pair of AQJBs.

[REShaman]

Richard - if you are using the solid adapter between your Regen & your DAC, you may want evaluate replacing it with the Curious Cable Regen Link. I reported my findings here. I just ordered one of these for myself. I can't wait! Note that I also use my Regen in tandem with a pair of AQJBs.

 

Hello Kenny,

 

Yes, I read with interest your experiences, and acknowledge, I am tempted to discover what the curious 200mm cable (7"?) in place of the solid adapter would render for the SQ outcome.

 

So as not to clutter my W4S Dac2 DSDse thread with any more OT, not referring to your remarks in your post below, but for the future, I'll post at the linked to thread you provided.

 

Thank you for thinking of me and taking the time out to reinforce your positive experience.

 

Best,

Richard

[audio.bill]

Hello Bill,

 

I agree. Sorry. I'll create the thread immediately in the same Sub-forum, i.e., Dac etc.

 

Best,

Richard

You have nothing to be sorry about, I simply provided a suggestion to make your evaluation easier for others to find. I greatly appreciate the time you take to share your impressions and look forward to your thoughts on the Recovery and how it compares to the Regen.

 

Kind regards,

- Bill

[drmike]

hello,

just received my upgraded dac2 dsdse back from w4s on Wednesday, may,18. was very disappointed that the i2s was not working. I was going to use it with my sbt that w4s had modified to work with i2s.

called w4s and spoke to tony about getting this checked out, he emailed me today and asked me to return the dac and the touch and they would check out the problem. I asked for a return shipping label and this is when the problem started. they would not pay for shipping back to their facility, he asked if I were located in the states, as if that should make a difference, I just received the dac on the 18th, it didn't work right out of the box.

just spent $1250 to have this upgraded, didn't work properly when I received it and they want me to pay to send it back to make it right. they should be checked before they are shipped.

I've owned two w4s amps, this is my2nd dac and paid $450 for the i2s sbt mod. NOT A HAPPY W4S customer!

tony said that was their policy.

drmik

[mourip]

hello,

just received my upgraded dac2 dsdse back from w4s on Wednesday, may,18. was very disappointed that the i2s was not working. I was going to use it with my sbt that w4s had modified to work with i2s.

called w4s and spoke to tony about getting this checked out, he emailed me today and asked me to return the dac and the touch and they would check out the problem. I asked for a return shipping label and this is when the problem started. they would not pay for shipping back to their facility, he asked if I were located in the states, as if that should make a difference, I just received the dac on the 18th, it didn't work right out of the box.

just spent $1250 to have this upgraded, didn't work properly when I received it and they want me to pay to send it back to make it right. they should be checked before they are shipped.

I've owned two w4s amps, this is my2nd dac and paid $450 for the i2s sbt mod. NOT A HAPPY W4S customer!

tony said that was their policy.

drmik

 

Sorry to hear that. I would email this directly to EJ Sarmento.

 

ej at wyred4sound dot com

 

He is very responsive.

[aronake]

Im a new owner of a W4S DSDse, and been through this interesting thread and learnt many things.

 

What I am interested about and would want to hear peoples views:

 

1. What power cord do you use, and which different cords have you tried that you like to use for the W4S DSD se?

2. Same as above, but for interconnect?

[Toddc2]

Im a new owner of a W4S DSDse, and been through this interesting thread and learnt many things.

 

What I am interested about and would want to hear peoples views:

 

1. What power cord do you use, and which different cords have you tried that you like to use for the W4S DSD se?

2. Same as above, but for interconnect?

 

Power cord: Siltech 270p (the copper cord). I tried Cardas Clear M, Crystal Diamond Reference and Verastarr Grand Illusion. All the cords were excellent but I preferred the warmth of the Siltech.

 

Interconnects: Siltech 550i XLR. I tried Cardas Neutral Reference (both RCA and XLR).

 

Todd