Wyred 4 Sound Dac2SE Upgrade Revisited & Findings -- The Best Decision Unequivocally!

[emailtim]

... I wish I understood more about the I2S input vs the USB input. Regarding lower jitter and the enhanced electronics provided in the upgrade, ... is it that through the USB cable input with the upgrade the I2S board is accessed thereby providing the advantage of lower jitter without having to actually connect a HDMI I2S cable? .... do you know (or anyone else)? ...

 

Hi Richard,

 

As I understand it (maybe wrong), the USB interface feeds into the I2S interface without having to use the I2S/HDMI port. The USB interface is now galvonically isolated from the DAC2-SE such that neither the PC's power or ground from the USB cable is introduced into the DAC2-SE. The new USB interface requires both the power and ground from the PC to work, but they are kept separate from the DAC2-SE's power/ground. This should eliminate the need for converters like the iUSB power which isolates the PC power from the DAC.

 

It is somewhat analogous to an opto-isolator in a TOSLINK connection. You need power and ground to turn electrical data signals into light data signals, but the power and ground does not travel down the light data path (fiber optic cable). On the other side of the connection, you need another source of power and ground to turn the light data signal back into a electrical signal. The power and grounds on each side of the data interface need not be the same, thus isolating the 2 components. This was just an analogy. I am sure the DAC2-SE's isolated USB interface is not using a TOSLINK connection =).

 

HTH,

Tim

 

Brief description of I2S:

I²S - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[emailtim]

...

Depending on the results I may or may not have a USB->I2S convertor available for sale

...

 

Keep us posted. If it does go up for sale, it will just about pay for the upgrade !!! You will even have an extra HDMI cable.

[emailtim]

Todd,

... Please do let us know. BTW: What is important to you about being keeping your Empirical Short Block in the chain after the upgrade. ...

 

From the following product definition from EA's website, the short block will not work with the DAC2-SE because it severs +5V from the PC.

 

Short Block Description:

 

" ... The Short Block severs the +5V wire in the USB cable, so devices that rely on the +5V power in the USB cable cannot use the Short Block. ... "

[emailtim]

Correct, but I have one of Steve's modified Short Blocks with a +5V umbilical. So it should work with my DAC2-SE, I will post on this when I know for sure.

 

Sorry I missed that. Keep us posted if it makes any difference or not.

[emailtim]

FWIW, W4S's DAC2 upgrade turnaround times have been pretty quick.

[emailtim]

Well, I sold my Bel Canto Reflink I was using with the DAC-2 DSD SE. Constant A/B-ing with the DAC-2 DSD SE's USB interface showed that the DAC-2 was slightly cleaner sounding with a little more resolution than the Reflink. ......

 

Coolness. Thanks for the update.

[emailtim]

For those of you with the DSD-SE upgrade, if you haven't tried driving your amp directly with the DAC, you might be in for a nice surprise.

 

Before you try, make sure to change your inputs from FIXED to VARIABLE.

 

I have bypassed my preamp and have noticed a nice improvement. The differences between my in-house amps are more apparent.

[emailtim]

I think you will like the DSD-SE upgrade because the improvements start at the power supply and then run from one end of the DAC to the other. You can find more details about their improvements on the following URL listed.

 

W4S DAC-2 DSDse (DAC2 DSDSE) - DACs - DAC 2 DSD, ESS Sabre DAC, High Definition Amplifiers, Asynchronous, Sonos modificaitons, Stereo Pre Amp

 

As for a preamp, do you have other inputs? The DAC won't support analog inputs, but if you don't have any, then that should not be a concern.

 

Also, when you demo'd the preamp, was it in your stack or was it at the dealers? If it was at the dealers, I would insist on an in-home demo to make sure it gives you the sound you are looking for.

 

Also, switching amps can change the sound. I have 4 amps and each sounds different. 2 of them are even built around the same B&O ASP-1000 module. Both have distinct differences.

 

Many people running 5-figure ($$,$$$) DACS run them straight into their amps (or maybe the don't have any cash left for a preamp ). If you don't need all of the input switching, it is kind of hard to justify the extra signal path extensions unless you are trying to add some color to the sound or are trying to address an impedance/level mismatch issue.

[emailtim]

... I'm anxious to hear from anyone who has run the SE model direct to amps. ...

 

I have been running this way since Thursday and like what I hear. I have tested it with 3 amps so far. My ML #380S maybe going up for sale.

 

In the past, I tried other CDP's that had preamp sections, but didn't like their coarse volume level granularity. I am not finding the granularity and output voltage range of the DAC2-DSDSE lacking for my amps.

[emailtim]

... I am glad to hear the grain is gone. How would you say the soundstage, warmth, smoothness is with the DAC2-SE as the preamp compared with running into a preamp?

 

Aspiring Audiophile,

 

Sorry for the confusion. I did not mean grain as in sound, I meant granularity as in the size of the steps in the volume adjustments. There are enough fine steps to get you to the desired volume without getting stuck in between 2 settings (either too low or to loud).

 

I have a nice sound stage and warmth. Detail and dynamics are there. Voices are great. Orchestral pieces are nicely laid out. Depending on the amp being used, the body is either fuller or leaner.

[emailtim]

... I just feel like something is missing. I can't put my finger on it, but it's like frosty the snowman without his magic hat (sorry, I have young kids). His form is all there, but there isn't the life, the "sparkle". ...

 

Something not for the young kids, but "Chasing the Dragon" can probably be applied to Audiophiles. We can easily get jaded and then need to find our next elusive high.

[emailtim]

Russelp,

 

Which model Mcintosh, Aragon & ML amps did you replace with the W4S SX-1000?

 

I'm certainly intrigued.

 

+1

 

Which amps did you test with the Maggie 20.7's ???

[emailtim]

McIntosh MC452

Aragon 4004 (my very first amp)

Mark Levinson 532H (a friends now)

 

Summary:

 

McIntosh MC452 = SX1000 gave more bottom end (deeper, tighter), plus much larger soundstage

 

Aragon 4004 = SX1000 was markedly smoother, absolutely no grain

 

Mark Levinson 532H = felt limited power wise, gets hot

 

Sonically, the SX1000 is superb, plus small, quiet, cool, light, and can be left powered 24/7. The soundstage is just massive and the background is deep and black - zero noise.

 

Keep in mind I own Magnepan 20.7's so I can assure you they are revealing speakers that will let you clearly hear upstream so to speak - they also love power which the SX1000 definitely has.

 

Thanks for the clarification.

 

Your 20.7's (4 Ohm, 86dB) like a lot of power. The SX-1000's are rated down to a 2 Ohm load.

[emailtim]

For those interested in trying some hi-res content, 2L offers some free downloads at the following page.

 

High Resolution Music DOWNLOAD services .:. FLAC in free TEST BENCH

 

The content is offered in the following 2-channel formats:

- Stereo DXD 24bit/352.8kHz

- Stereo FLAC 24bit/192kHz

- Stereo FLAC 24bit/96kHz

- Stereo DFF DSD 128 5.6448 Mbit/s

- Stereo DFF DSD 64 2.8224 Mbit/s

 

Use 2L/2L for the User/Password to download the content.

 

I have been able to play all of these formats through the DAC2-DSDSE using USB & JRMC-18. The DAC2-DSDSE's front panel display has verified the rates.

 

I believe Linn Records and Blue Coast Records also has some free HiRez sample content.

 

Bravura Records also has some Christmas 24 bit samples. I have been waiting for their mainstream content to become available, but there has been no feedback.

 

Bravura Records Music

 

HTH

[emailtim]

I just listened to the Mozart Violin concerto sampler from 2L.

 

This is the first time I tried out DSD128 on my DAC2SE.

 

Overall, I preferred it to the corresponding FLAC 192 file from the same website. Seemed more organic, less hifi.

 

Has anyone else done the 2L comparison test?

 

Try the DXD 352.8kHz WAV versions while you are at it. I believe they are the studio masters that they make the other samples from.

[emailtim]

...

I attempted to purchase several 2L DSD recordings after listening to those free DLs, desiring the entire albums, but 2L's credit card transaction software and my credit card issuing bank are not compatible. I emailed the head of 2L who told me he planned to remedy this incompatibility so I could spend even more money for music.

...

 

Hi Richard,

 

Their CC software was too invasive for my tastes (wanted part of your SSN) so I wrote them as well. They suggested I try the PayPal option and use my CC as normal. I had not seen that option the first time, so retried, found the PayPal option and was able purchase just like any other CC entry form.

 

They also said they are going to try and change their normal CC process.

 

HTH,

Tim

[emailtim]

Yes, Tim, I noticed the Paypal alternative. But I am not a fan of PP ...

 

Hi Richard,

 

I do not use a PP account, I just use PP to process the CC without a PP account.

 

I have had too many issues with PP's accounts. I constantly got fraudulent PP fishing emails. I once got a PP credit card with a fake eBay charge on it that I never applied for (after my PP account was closed). The CC was already authorized to my home phone before the plastic arrived via snail mail. My lawyer told me hackers can spoof caller id to authorize CC's from alternate locations.

 

Currently listening to the HiRez "Stone Rose" album from 2L (nice piano and trumpet).

 

Sincerely,

Tim

[emailtim]

Hi Richard,

 

When do get your preamp back?

 

Also, is the DAC2-DSDSE's preamp any better after the reset than when you first tried it as a preamp, or did the harshness start sometime after your first tests?

 

Thanks,

Tim

[emailtim]

Any comments from your perspectives?

 

Hi Richard,

 

I have been enjoying the DAC2-DSDSE upgrade. Nothing new to report.

 

Sincerely,

Tim

[emailtim]

... The primary advantage of the level 2 upgrade is that it adds all of the critical resistors that are in the audio path at any level above 14. Additionally the upgrade caps will help enhance the clean power delivery to the circuit. ...

 

Hi Richard,

 

Do you listen to levels above 14 on the preamp?

 

If so, do you notice any difference between (14 and below) versus above 14?

 

14 and below is suppose to just be straight though (e.g. level 70 on the DAC2-DSDSE) and then passive attenuation with less than 14.

 

Above 14 is supposed to be active amplification with more parts in the signal path.

 

Thanks,

Tim

[emailtim]

Anyone try Lightspeed USB Cable ???

 

Light Harmonic - Lightspeed USB Cable

 

[emailtim]

Hi Richard,

 

Your take of passive/active is correct with respect to my question.

 

As I understand it, level 14 is supposed to be a straight pass-though of the source (no gain, no attenuation). In your case, it should be passing the FIXED 70 setting from the DAC2-DSDSE though the preamp. This "should" result in the same volume as using the DAC2-DSDSE @ 70 straight into your amp. The preamp @ 14 should just be a piece of straight wire in the path.

 

At values less than 14, the signal path is going through the passive resistor network to attenuate the volume lower. This is a shorter path than the active amplification path and a slightly longer path than with no attenuation.

 

At values greater than 14, the signal is going through an extra active amplification path (longest path).

 

If you are listening to levels above 14 on the preamp, it explains why you like the preamp in the chain over just using the DAC2-DSDSE.

 

Also, one more question. Where is the attenuation set on your Bryston 10B Sub? Is it straight up, favoring your mains or favoring your sub? My Bryston 10B Sub PRO tends to use some of the signal level. I notice this more when it is being driven by the DAC versus the preamp. This might be why you like the extra power of the preamp which compensates for the signal level usage in the Bryston.

 

Thank you for your feedback.

 

Sincerely,

Tim

[emailtim]

Does that answer your question? Am I missing something?

 

Hi Richard,

 

That answered my question. I just wanted to see where you had your Bryston's balance set. It is not favoring your mains over your subs or visa-versa being set at 0.

 

Thanks,

Tim

[emailtim]

BTW, I couldn't be happier with the performance from my DAC2se, and replacing the ESS voltage rail decoupling capacitors with Elna Cerafine (6.3V / 4700uF) has definitely removed the last trace of edge at the top of the audio spectrum, leaving me with the most pure and detailed performance I've ever had in my system.

 

RFP,

 

Are these the same type/value of caps as the originals (just different brand), or are the type or values different?

 

Thanks,

Tim

[emailtim]

"The new units are class 2.0 compliant and will not require drivers for Mac OSX or Linux. Drivers are provided an necessary for Windows operating systems. "

 

FWIW, I tried the DSDSE with OpenElec(purpose built Linux + XBMC) and the USB interface was immediately recognized without needing to install any drivers.

 

Note: OpenElec does not yet support DSD, but it does support up to 24bit/384KHz.