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Wyred 4 Sound Dac2SE Upgrade Revisited & Findings -- The Best Decision Unequivocally!


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Regarding using an external converter with the original DAC-2, I used a Bel Canto Reflink which was a significant improvement over the standard DAC-2 USB interface. After a 200 hours burn in on the DAC-2 DSD SE, I find myself constantly switching back and forth between the DAC-2 DSD SE's USB interface and the Reflink trying to determine which interface I like best. They are very close, the DAC-2 DSD SE a little cleaner sounding, the Reflink a little more robust sounding, no clear victor yet, both excellent. I also found that the DAC-2 DSD SE worked better with a W4S USB cable than an Audioquest Cinnamon cable which sounded a little thin, and a tad brighter than I prefer. Overall, the DAC-2 DSD DE upgrade was well worth it and it looks like it might pay for itself but letting me unload my Bel Canto Reflink USB converter. Enjoy!

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I looked up the Bel Canto Reflink and was a bit suprised that it uses the spdif interface, not I2S. Its my understanding that only I2S goes right into the DAC, while the spdif still goes through the resampling/dejittering process, which with the original DAC2 is not necessarily that clean. So I am a bit suprised you find them so comparable!

 

On another note, there are other improvements such as the Analog output stage - so if you compare the regular Dac2 to the Dac2 SE with the same interface, do you concur with Richard that the SE is noticably improved?

 

Yes, compared to the original DAC-2 USB I feel the DAC-2 DSD SE USB implementation is better, and different. Greater resolution and cleaner sound - bye bye DAC-2 warmth, the DAC-2 DSD SE I would classify as clean and neutral sounding. Regarding the DAC-2 DSD SE using IS2 vs Bel Canto SPDIF, that may be why I notice a cleaner sound with the DAC-2 DSD SE vs Reflink, but that doesn't mean I prefer the cleaner sound - still on the fence. Many other variables in addition to DAC-2 IS2 USB interface that determine which sounds better, clocks, power, personal preference etc.

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With regard to the I2S input for the Dac2SE, what specifically are users connecting to that input and what improvement and sound quality results?

 

Best,

Richard

 

Just to clarify, in my previous post the I2S I was referring to was the new I2S DSD USB interface on the DAC-2 DSD SE. Not the 1x Balanced I2S input via HDMI cable (not standard HDMI cable format).

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well, I sold my Bel Canto Reflink I was using with the DAC-2 DSD SE. Constant A/B-ing with the DAC-2 DSD SE's USB interface showed that the DAC-2 was slightly cleaner sounding with a little more resolution than the Reflink. That being said, I still slightly preferred the Reflink's overall sound, probably because it was warmed up a bit by using a Kimber Orchid AES/EBU. But the DAC-2 DSDS SE was cleaner sounding. See I still can't decide :) Nevertheless, for the small differences I could not justify keeping the Reflink. Nice Job W4S! I expect to be looking at some USB cable options to compare to my Wyred USB cable I am currently using. Audioquest Diamond maybe? We'll see......

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For those of you with the DSD-SE upgrade, if you haven't tried driving your amp directly with the DAC, you might be in for a nice surprise.

 

Before you try, make sure to change your inputs from FIXED to VARIABLE.

 

I have bypassed my preamp and have noticed a nice improvement. The differences between my in-house amps are more apparent.

 

I tried using the DAC-2 DSD SE as a preamp and was indeed pleasantly surprised at how much better it sounded than when I tried the original DAC-2 as a preamp. I recall I did not like the original DAC-2 as a preamp at all. That being said, I still prefer using my Parasound JC2 as a preamp with the DAC-2 DSD SE. Definitely worth trying though.

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I really appreciate the feedback of those who have used the SE as a preamp. Since you still prefer the Parasound JC2 preamp in the chain, I'm curious what the difference is with and without the preamp. What specifically in terms of sound did the JC2 add for you?

 

It was a little bright/thin sounding in my system. I feel the Parasound warmed things up a bit. All depends on your preference.

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I tried out the Audioquest Diamond USB cable with the DAC-2 DSD SE. The diamond provides a relaxed natural sounding presentation without brightness or harshness. It un-veils a sparkle/liveliness/transparency that draws me into the music. Very smooth sounding which my ears appreciate. I feel the cost is justifiable as it enhanced my listening experience with the DAC-2 DSD SE.

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To be clear, the upgrade is important in this particular perspective: What the original W4S Dac2 provided in terms of SQ is what it is. For me, the baseline SQ delivered an SQ I assessed as very satisfactory. Are there better Dacs? Of course there are. That is not the point. For the price point, for what I personally require to keep the component in my system, the original Dac2 delivered. Purchasing a superlative USB cable can not improve what is not there. Anyone disagree with that perspective? I am fairly, reasonably and appropriately disappointed with a manufacturer that promotes a cable that I purchased in 2011 that was designed specifically for digital 44.1 kHz when in fact Hi-Res was clearly established. So you can appreciate what I am articulating, the head designer informed me of this of his own volition, suggesting I audition his latest, greatest USB cable. How generous of him to offer me the opportunity to spend more money for a cabke that two years ago was useless two years later that requires me to replace. You can decide for yourselves what is fair and reasonable. Considering the cable I purchased from W4S two years later that was offered two years before that was compatible with my upgraded Dac2Se presently permits me to take this perspective.

 

But here is the rub: That expensive USB that is now useless to me delivered an SQ in combination with the Dac2 that I preferred. No reason to say more.

 

The outcome ofnthis particular post is to acknowledge that with the upgarded Dac2SE, the SQ that emenates is far superior from the original Dac2. Therefore, the USB cable I choose either compliments or compromises that new baseline for SQ. I may feel disadvantaged. I may feel the offer to audition an upgraded USB cable is a hollow offer considering the money I spent for a cable that was hobbled at best despite its performance, but my outcome is not to get even. My outcome is to assemble the best system that delivers the best SQ, and thus the enjoyment of the music I enjoy. If I eventually end up with the same manufacturer, so be it. I stated I would not publish my findings prematurely. But presently, I am not unhappy, ; >}, with a manufacturer whise name is not SR.

 

The upgraded Dac is essential to my outcome, now what is essential is to keep the synergy consistent with what I change and / or add to it.

 

That is pretty clear! Any views are welcome consistent with what improves as long as it does promote what theories about what is illusory or subjective vs objective are concerned. Anyone?

 

Best,

Richard

 

I'd like to hear which you prefer with the DAC-2 DSD SE, the Audioquest Diamond or Wireworld Platinum. Enjoy your journey!

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  • 2 months later...
  • 4 weeks later...

Just wanted to post that I hit the 600 hour mark on my DAC-2 SE approximately 2 weeks ago. Prior to that subtle and some not so subtle changes in sound quality would occur that I was never quite sure what I would be hearing from one listening session to the next. As other members mentioned the biggest change came after 250 hours. Now I have stability in sound quality whenever I use it and have a DAC that I will be able to live with for a long time. Nice job W4S!

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  • 5 months later...
  • 3 weeks later...

The volume range Clint referred to must be for "variable" input. I just got mine back with the Femto upgrade and at least for the USB input, the max when fixed is select is still 70. Anyhow, glad to have it back home. Acclimation time? No way, the frozen brick was immediately hooked up and put to work.

DSCN0754.JPG

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My initial thoughts after about 1.5 hours warm up from a very cold unit are that I am hearing more clarity, and transparency but a somewhat thinner sound than before. For example, listening to David Johansen and the Harry Smiths, David's voice seemed to have less of a robust thickness to it than I was used to. However, it sounded more clear, natural and believable. Subtleties in the texture of his voice I had not heard before were apparent. It makes me think that before I was hearing an artificially bloated version of David's voice. I also am hearing more background detail of those various odd sounds like a grunt or finger snap musicians like to include in the mix. I also as I heard, as believe EJ pointed out, a more metallic quality to cymbal hits. Before somewhat of a refined sizzle, now a metallic resonance is clearly heard. So far I am impressed with the upgrade, but some rough leading edges leads me to believe the unit will benefit from more than 1.5 hour of burn in.

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  • 2 weeks later...
My initial thoughts after about 1.5 hours warm up from a very cold unit are that I am hearing more clarity, and transparency but a somewhat thinner sound than before. For example, listening to David Johansen and the Harry Smiths, David's voice seemed to have less of a robust thickness to it than I was used to. However, it sounded more clear, natural and believable. Subtleties in the texture of his voice I had not heard before were apparent. It makes me think that before I was hearing an artificially bloated version of David's voice. I also am hearing more background detail of those various odd sounds like a grunt or finger snap musicians like to include in the mix. I also as I heard, as believe EJ pointed out, a more metallic quality to cymbal hits. Before somewhat of a refined sizzle, now a metallic resonance is clearly heard. So far I am impressed with the upgrade, but some rough leading edges leads me to believe the unit will benefit from more than 1.5 hour of burn in.

 

Was on vacation and had the DAC-2 DSD SE playing non-stop for the last 200 hours. Now, very smooth sounding. The upgrade provides more natural sounding vocals, more realistic sound for cymbals and kick drums. Just an all around improvement in sound quality. Great upgrade for the price.

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  • 3 months later...

Having had the Wyred DSD SE with Femto clock for a while now I started to think about how other DACs might sound. I picked up a McIntosh D100 for a comparison. The D100 looked great with the rest of my McIntosh gear but the sonics were not as good as the Wyred IMHO. I found it interesting how different DACs can sound. The Wyred had a much fuller sound than the D100 and things like cymbal crashes were more real sounding. Overall, I just preferred the presentation on the Wyred.

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  • 11 months later...

Richard, it is always good to hear that further improvements in sound quality are out there for us DAC-2 DSD SE owners. I am very interested in hearing about your latest upgrades and want to thank you for blazing the trail for us other DAC-2 owners. I have a Mac Mini on order from Apple to replace a Dell laptop I was using as a music server. I haven't decided if I will go with Amarra or JRiver. Probably JRiver since I can cheaply upgrade my license for Mac. This will be my first Mac so I have a learning curve ahead of me!

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  • 1 year later...
W4S is an excellent and forward thinking company, so if it reasonably can be done I'm confident they'll offer it with the ES9038PRO. It seems that the chip itself is in relatively short supply, significantly more expensive than the other versions, and requires different and more complex supporting circuitry to implement.

 

With the price of the ESS9028PRO V2 DSD SE version already at $3499, I suspect the ESS9038PRO version would have a lot of people looking at alternatives due to price.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Just ordered the upgrade from my DAC2DSDse to the new DAC-2v2 SE model - $599 USD. They're saying could be March before the new ESS9028Pro chip is available though.

I'm also running their Recovery module in-line. Wonder if I'll still need it after the upgrade?

 

I ordered the same this past weekend. I also inquired about the 9038PRO upgrade and they still plan to offer it. They just need to get their hands on the 9038PRO chip and figure out how to implement (different pins than 9028PRO). Depending on how soon that happens I may switch my order.

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Man I owe you guys a debt of gratitude. I too did the upgrade for my DAC2DSDse to v2 and "thought" it was the 9038 chip I was getting with the upgrade based on early info from W4S. I was leaving for FedEx in about an hour from reading your posts to ship it off, called Wyred to upgrade to the 9038 and pay them the difference. Now to wait until late next month (no worries if it's later) and I'll send it off. This should be one killer DAC!

 

How much additional was it to go with 9038? I've already sent mine in for the 9028 upgrade, but if the difference was reasonable I might consider the 9038. However, some of the the research I've seen is that the main difference in the chips is noise floor which is already extremely good with the 9028 and with the low volume levels I listen at, I'm not sure I would benefit from the 9038.

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  • 2 weeks later...
My DAC should arrive tomorrow at W4S - I decided too to upgrade to the 9038 Pro for the extra $300. This will save me having to sending it in again in the future. No word on any MQA support though.

 

Wyred received my DAC last week for the 9028 upgrade, but then I decided to go with the 9038 when it became an option. It will be a couple of additional weeks before they even get the 9038 chips in, but I felt it was worth the wait. Enjoying some old gear I had used years ago while I wait.

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