Article: The Complete Guide To HiFi UPnP / DLNA Network Audio

[The Computer Audiophile]

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[The Computer Audiophile]

I think VortexBox should be mentioned as a DLNA server. It's free and works on any old PC. I use it to serve up audio and video files to my Oppo 103 and it works great.

Great suggestion Jeff.

[The Computer Audiophile]

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[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi gfrnd - Have you tried JRemote?

[The Computer Audiophile]

I really appreciated this article and the comments. All very helpful.

Chris- Would it be possible to include a line diagram or flow chart of your network layout?

Thanks for the kind words.

 

The best I have now is the image under system four in the article.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Chris,

 

Good to have this article putting it all together.

 

Do you have any thoughts on the difference in the quality of sound when using DLNA/uPnP directly to the renderer (i.e. not using JRiver engine) versus using JRiver to USB?

 

Also, is there any difference between using the Original mode in JRiver (Options, Media Network, configure DLNA servers) versus sending 24 bit PCM?

 

Thanks,

Zane

It's really impossible to compare the sound quality because each renderer and USB DAC are different.

Haven't checked out the sending 24 bit PCM part yet.

[The Computer Audiophile]

I'm new to this, and am struggling to understand why you would need a separate media renderer (as shown above) if you were using a media server connected to a DAC.

 

My ideal system would allow me to manage my library from my iMac using either iTunes+ Audirvana or JRiver for mac, but play the music in a different room, hence the need for a server setup. JRiver would be great if I could confirm that I could get JRiver for mac to sync with iTunes so I could in turn use iTunes to sync with my iDevices (I know there is MCiS for PC version of JRiver, but don't know of anything for Mac). JRiver is appealing to me because I would also like use my iPhone to pull bitperfect music from the media server to listen through various DAC/headphone amps that I would use throughout my home when I wansn't in my main listening room. I think JRiver offers this for iphone capability for PC but I am not sure about mac. Perhaps I could use iTunes home sharing for this function, but I don't know if this is limited in sample rate. Another consideration is that I would like to manage two separate audio libraries (one for me and one for my wife), but have it be easy at listening end to pull from either library.

 

I have a budget of around $3500 for any combination of NAS, Server, Streamer, and/or DAC (my current Wadia 170 ipod transport plus Cambridge DacMagic DAC will be replaced). At first I was thinking of setting up a NAS and buying either a Mac Mini or something like a Linn Majik DSM to stream to my DAC. I then started thinking of building my own music server using CAPS Zuma as a starting point (I've built a gaming PC before), but based on the setups listed in this article, it appears I would still need a renderer (like a Linn Majik DSM or Naim streamer). Why is this? I would gladly pay for a renderer/network streamer if it had a quality built in DAC, but otherwise I thought I could get better sound buying a quality DAC and using Mac Mini or building a CAPS-like audio only pc/server.

 

Any thoughts? Also, sorry for the long post. I've been reading this and other sites for a while now and figured I could ask small questions all over or give the big picture in one place. By the way, my amp is the integrated PrimaLuna Dialogue Two and I will soon be replacing my NHT Classic Three speakers with Sonus Faber Venere 2.5, GoldenEar Triton Two, PSB Imagine T2, Revel Performa3 F206, or Nola Contenders - as soon as I can decide.

Hi Radiomir - I'm not certain what you're asking but with a few back and forth comments I'm sure we'll get this figured out for you.

 

You have to have some kind of computer, whether that's a NAS or full computer, for playback. You can stream directly from a NAS to a renderer that contains a DAC or just digital to digital conversion. Or, you can use a direct connection to your DAC from a computer.

 

 

You don't need a separate renderer if as you said, "you were using a media server connected to a DAC." Renderers come into play when streaming audio over Ethernet or WiFi.

[The Computer Audiophile]

I guess I am confused because all of the systems outlined in this article show a media server (either NAS with server software or CAPS Topanga) physically connected to a media renderer (Linn picture).

 

Connected to the same network with an Ethernet cable, not directly connected to the renderer.

 

 

 

 

I understand why you would need a media renderer in System 2 because there must be something to process the signal from media storage and I'm guessing the NAS lacks enough processing power to handle server and rendering capabilities (and also probably most NAS is not set up with physically pass a decent signal directly to a DAC (Is this correct?).

 

You need a renderer to reproduce sound. A NAS has no speakers and no Digital to Analog Converter. A NAS can be connected directly to a USB DAC, but the results are not good.

 

 

 

 

 

However, I don't quite understand why, if there is a CAPS Topanga (or a Mac Mini, or any other such computer), there also needs to be a separate media renderer like the Linn (giving you two computers, the Topanga and the Linn). What purpose does the media renderer serve in this case?

 

You either need a DAC connected to the Topanga or you need a renderer like the Linn to convert digital audio into analog sound.

 

 

Are you getting confused as to why I use both a NAS and a Windows computer to feed files to a renderer? I use a NAS for its large storage capacity and a PC for its much better DLNA / UPnP software. If I connect a DAC to the PC it's no longer a DLNA / UPnP based solution rather its just a PC with USB DAC. Sending the audio over Ethernet to the renderer makes it a DLNA / UPnP solution and the user receives all the benefits of such a solution.

[The Computer Audiophile]

The setup I was imagining was a NAS set up as a DLNA/UPnp server connected to an Airport Extreme in one room; then in a different room having a CAPS or Mac Mini in my listening room connected to another Airport Extreme and acting as a streamer, which would then output to a dac, and then on to amplification.

I would not use the NAS as a DLNA / UPnP server in this situation. Just map a drive to your NAS from the PC and use iTunes to JRiver Media Center to serve the library even though the music is stored on the NAS.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Would both the media management computer and the PC have libraries mapped to the same files on the NAS, then? Which one is acting as the server? Also, I am not sure what you mean by "use iTunes to Jriver" to serve the library. Was that supposed to be an "or"? At any rate, I don't want to have to go turn on my media management computer (an iMac in a separate room) every time I want to listen in the main room or use the iphone and headphone amp/dac combo mentioned above. I'm not sure the setup I originally imagined (which you quoted in your recent response) is what I really want. Probably my last response was too long to read through all the way. Sorry! If you can get through it, though, I'd love some recommendations!

 

Supposed to be the word OR not TO.

 

The PC is the media management computer with the main JRiver library. The files reside on the NAS as a storage device only. You could share the files on the NAS via some integrated NAS package if you want.

 

You can have as many computers as you want map a drive to the NAS if needed.

[The Computer Audiophile]

When using JRemote on iPad, does the use of JRemote or the iPad impose a bit depth/sampling rate limit to what can be streamed (i.e. 24/96kHZ for example) or can this combo be used to stream higher sampling rates?

If streaming to a DLNA renderer there is no limit. If streaming back to the iPad I believe JRemote sets a limit.

[The Computer Audiophile]

This is a fantastic article!

 

I'm wondering if someone can help me figure it why I can't play 96k or greater audio over my dnla network? Specifically, hi res audio playback leads to a loud pulsating sound. Musical tones from the tracks are still audible, but the pulsating noise that is on top of is so loud that the tracks are entirely unlistenable.

 

Here are the specifics of my system:

 

Mac Mini with FireWire 800 external hard drive storing my music library, running OS X 10.6.8

 

JRiver for Mac 19, configured as a dnla server, serving music as PCM 24 bit

 

Home network comprised of 3 Airport expresses (offering both 2,4 and 5 GHz networks). One AE is connected by CAT6 to fiber optic modem. The other two AEs are configured to extend the 2.4 GHz network

 

Renderer is a Sony BDP-S580 connected to one of the two daughter AEs via CAT6 Ethernet. Sony device's interface serves as the control point.

 

I've done the following already to try to isolate the problem:

 

- pause music, wait a minute, then unpause. No effect on 192 kHz tracks. 96khz tracks offer a couple seconds of clean playback (< 5 secs) and then pulsing resumes

 

- Reconfigure the daughter AE that connects the Sony renderer as a network device (no longer extending the WIFI network). Problem remains.

 

- Test the renderer using a USB flash loaded with hi-res music. It plays the music fine, no pulsating sound.

 

- Try Twonky in place of JRiver on my Mac Mini as the server software. Problem remains.

 

- use the Apple Airport Diagnostic tool to search for a channel with minimal noise, and configure all AEs to use that channel. Problem remains

 

- disconnect the renderer from the AE, configure it for a wifi connection on both 2.4 and 5 GHz nets. Problem remains.

 

- configure JRiver to stream audio as original rather than PCM 2.4. Renderer does not support ALAC or FLAC playback. Problem remains when playing aiff files.

 

- playing 48 kHz 24 bit audio. This is interesting. Pulsing is still present but noticeably less than with higher res. pausing a track for a minute or so allows for clean playback for the remainder of the track (presumably because the track has bed sufficiently buffered)

 

 

The renderer has no problem playing uncompressed CD quality audio over the dnla net.

 

I strongly suspect the problem is with my network configuration. However, I haven't been able to verify this because I don't have an Ethernet cable that's long enough to facilitate testing other configurations like connecting the renderer to the parent AE. But even if I did have such a cable, my wife would never let me snake Ethernet all over the house, not even to connect the AEs together. In-wall Ethernet runs might be possible, but the cost would be steep.

 

Any ideas? First, are there some other possibilities that don't involve reconfiguring the network? Second, assuming it is the network, any idea how I can get better performance without using Ethernet runs? Is there a magic setting I can change to allow the AEs to pass clean hi res audio?

 

Thanks!

You fighting an uphill battle trying high resolution via wireless on AE units. I suggest moving the components into one room to wire them with Ethernet for testing. I'd never extend a wireless 802.11n network. Half your bandwidth is lost by the extension.

 

Can an you draw a crude diagram if your network?

[The Computer Audiophile]

Terrific, thanks for the diagram. Now I have a much better picture of what's going on.

 

To be honest I don't thing you can ever make this setup stream 96 kHz content without issues. Neflix says what it says about bandwidth, but keep in mind it's very unscientific and Netflix movies stream at incredibly lossy rates. I use Netflix as well and laugh at its Super HD label. If you want apples to apples you could convert your 96 or 192 content to very lossy MP3 and I bet it would stream just fine. It's still 96 or 192 but most of the information is gone. That's how Netflix works.

 

Looking at your network most engineers would say it must work because the bandwidth is there (1+1=2 type of thing). However, in practice you're fighting an uphill battle. Variables like running both 2.4 and 5 GHz network on one AE, Mac connected via wireless, and Renderer connected via wireless can't help the situation.

 

Edit: Just looked again and see the renderer is running via Ethernet to the AE. This is good but doesn't change my opinion.

 

Here is what I would do in your situation.

 

I'm guessing your AE1 is acting as the router between the WAN and LAN. That's not ideal but probably not a show stopper if it's got two Ethernet ports.

 

1. Purchase a real Ethernet switch like the Netgear GS108 or GS105. Place this on the LAN port of your AE1.

 

2. Purchase Neatgear XAVB5101 power line networking units to connect the Mac Mini and Renderer to the switch via wired Ethernet. I believe you can run a one-to-many configuration where you have a single XAVB5101 at the switch connecting to two XAVB5101s (one at Mac and one at renderer).

 

 

Another way to try this is to connect the Mac and Renderer via Ethernet to an AE directly and let the AE handle all the wireless traffic. It sound weird but the wireless implementations in computers and renderers are usually subpar compared to dedicated wireless devices. You can also look at my article about Airport Extremes using 802.11ac. There is a configuration similar to what I described above that would work for you. it all comes down to what you want to spend to make it work.

[The Computer Audiophile]

- Under configuration 1, I'm passing digital audio through the power lines in my wall rather than over wifi. How likely am I to pick up line noise? Is it fair to assume that any line noise I pick up is less than I'm currently getting on the 5 GHz RF band? I imagine with or without line noise, you believe the sound quality is still superior to downsampling my music to 48 kHz, or else you wouldn't have bothered to suggest it!

 

- Would it work to plug one of those XAVB5101 devices into an a power line conditioner? Even if the conditioner doesn't do anything to improve the signal, it would actually be easier for me this way, at least in the room where the renderer is located, since I already have a Panamax in my audio rig, and I don't have any spare wall outlets in that room.

 

- As you noted in your EDIT, my renderer is currently running off Ethernet into AE3. So the only difference between the current configuration and configuration 2 is that I now run the Mac Mini off Ethernet into one if the AEs, correct?

 

- I don't actually have a need for the 2.4 GHz network. I set up two networks because I thought I'd be better off isolating my media traffic from my non-media traffic. If you think it would actually improve performance to put all traffic (media and non-media) onto a single network, either 2.4 or 5, I can do that, except that I'd still need to run AE2 in "extend a network" mode. Assuming for a moment that I don't end up running configuration 1, do you think I'm better off keeping two simultaneous wifi networks and running the DNLA on the un-extended wifi network, or consolidating to a single extended network?

 

Thanks again. This is incredibly helpful.

 

I don't think you're picking up any line noise using the power line adapters because Ethernet is galvanically isolated as long as you use regular cat6 cables like you're using. You can also get Ethernet isolators if you have noise issues. Baaske makes them, but the price has shot up recently.

 

I don't have experience using power line networking with a line conditioner. I suppose it all spends on how the conditioner works. If it has some crazy isolation / separation of some sort it may not even pass the Ethernet signal. You could always get a power strip liberator to give you another outlet on the wall if needed.

 

Correct about the Mac Mini moving to Ethernet as the only change for Config 2.

 

Just because the AE can run dual mode 2.4 and 5 GHz doesn't mean it works best that way. I'm skeptical that you're getting the best performance setup this way. The AEs are really good but they are not enterprise class. I would try everything on one network. You can also download the Xirrus Wi-Fi Inspector to check your network.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Here's where I get confused, could the media renderer be another small fanless PC running windows for example? what would this small form factor PC need to be a dlna renderer and would there be any disadvantage to this rather than one of the network media players from Naim, Linn etc? I noticed when reading about some of these network players that they have up sampling capabilities i take it this wouldn't be possible on a windows PC?

 

I have a FreeNAS system with all my music stored on it and at present I just hook up my notebook to the system downstairs when I want to play from NAS. This laptop has a cifs shared drive to the NAS. I'm wanting to get away from this and be able to control everything from a tablet but I'm unsure if i need to buy a network player or if i could save a few £'s by making a small form factor PC.

Many things can be renderers including a Windows PC. You can setup JRiver to be a renderer very easily.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Currently as mentioned I'm just connecting up a laptop to my DAC in the living room when I want to access the media on the NAS but what I'd like to do is install JRiver/Foobar inside a virtual machine on my Hyper-V server. That could run 24/7 and act as the media server. So if I built a small windows PC and connected that to my DAC in the living room I'd just need to install JRiver on that machine and configure it as a renderer? Once configured I could leave the renderer PC headless and just control everything from a tablet which would connect to the VM media server?

 

I've have a powerline connection in the living room so I would hook up the pc to that but would this setup work via DLNA if setup as outlined? I'm fairly new to JRiver and I haven't played about with it much at all.

 

Great guide by the way, and thanks for putting it together, it's really helpful.

hi jumbo - Yes, it should work exactly like you expect. Plus, you can use JRemote on a tablet to control playback as well.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Great stuff I'll have to give this a go then, thanks. One last question, as you can probably gather I'm only just getting into audiophile grade equipment and I haven't really played about with DSD files or even anything above the CD's that I ripped into 16 bit 44.1 khz flac files before putting them onto my NAS. I see that some of these network media players available from the likes of Linn and Naim state that they upsample all files to ( i forget the numbers) but would this be a negative for going the route I plan?

Nope, not a negative.

[The Computer Audiophile]

This post will seem out of context for many. Please ignore if you want.

 

 

I'm going to start a new forum thread for this discussion. It's better to have it in the network forum area than below this article.

 

Here's a link to the discussion @Yorkie and @esmit

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f22-networking-networked-audio-and-streaming/new-isp-network-problems-audio-device-help-needed-30642/

[The Computer Audiophile]

7 minutes ago, Jeremy Anderson said:

@The Computer Audiophile the images on this amazing resource article seem to have broken   Is there a way you can repair them? Thanks!

I’ll fix them soon. Thanks for letting me know.