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Ayre wants $1.5K for DSD'ed QB-9


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I don't know if I'd use vinyl as a reference, even for analog.

 

Certainly a vinyl rip can't be used as a proof of the maximum capabilities of a given recording format. And it's not just the limitations of vinyl medium which render such evaluations far from definitive, but also a simple fact that some LPs have been sourced from PCM or mixed in PCM.

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I'm curious if the QB-9 will play DSD128 files. I think this would require 352khz PCM?

 

Ayre's QA-9 A/D supports DSD up to 256fs so the DSD update for the Ayre DAC will likely enable all the sampling rates from 2.8224MHz to 5.6448MHz and 11.289MHz.

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Hiro: unfortunately not. See Charles answer in post #42.

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Hiro: unfortunately not. See Charles answer in post #42.

 

So you will be able to record to DSD128 and DSD256 via the Ayre ADC but you won't be able to play the recordings via the Ayre DAC? Very, very strange. But thanks for pointing this out.

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Audiostream's Michael Lavorgna used a master tape for his evaluation of the available hi-rez formats.

 

PCM v DSD Comparison: 16/44.1, 24/96, 24/192, 64x DSD, 128x DSD | AudioStream

 

Thanks for the link but, if I read it correctly, Lavorgna did not use the master tape for his evaluation. Rather, all the digital files used in his evaluation were created from the same master tape by Bruce Brown.

 

Again, most of us don't have access to the master tapes. And, even Bruce Brown only has access to some teeny-tiny proportion of titles.

Roon ROCK (Roon 1.7; NUC7i3) > Ayre QB-9 Twenty > Ayre AX-5 Twenty > Thiel CS2.4SE (crossovers rebuilt with Clarity CSA and Multicap RTX caps, Mills MRA-12 resistors; ERSE and Jantzen coils; Cardas binding posts and hookup wire); Cardas and OEM power cables, interconnects, and speaker cables

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Thanks for the link but, if I read it correctly, Lavorgna did not use the master tape for his evaluation. Rather, all the digital files used in his evaluation were created from the same master tape by Bruce Brown.

 

Yes, that's what I meant, when I said that he used a master tape for his evaluation. Sorry if I wasn't clear enough. You'll find all the details about the test in the linked article.

 

And speaking of Bruce Brown, here's how he sees (or rather hears) it:

"We master from tape and also archive to the digital domain. To fully capture the nuances of tape, I feel the only way to do that is into either DSD64fs via a Grimm AD1 or to DSD128fs. That is the closest I’ve heard digital to master tape. That is how good tape can be. It trumps everything else."

http://www.audiostream.com/content/qa-bruce-brown-puget-sound-studios

 

 

 

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So you will be able to record to DSD128 and DSD256 via the Ayre ADC but you won't be able to play the recordings via the Ayre DAC? Very, very strange. But thanks for pointing this out.

 

That is curious! I wonder if the mega-rez DSD capabilities are intended for recording professionals? For the regular user, 24/192 should be plenty adequate to digitize LPs, given Atkinson's review.

 

For myself, I'm not certain I can distinguish 24/96 and 24/192 (I'm going to investigate further by down-sampling a few 24/192 tracks using dBPoweramp) . The fretting over 32/384 (and DSD) strikes me as computer geek overkill. YMMV.

Roon ROCK (Roon 1.7; NUC7i3) > Ayre QB-9 Twenty > Ayre AX-5 Twenty > Thiel CS2.4SE (crossovers rebuilt with Clarity CSA and Multicap RTX caps, Mills MRA-12 resistors; ERSE and Jantzen coils; Cardas binding posts and hookup wire); Cardas and OEM power cables, interconnects, and speaker cables

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That is curious! I wonder if the mega-rez DSD capabilities are intended for recording professionals? For the regular user, 24/192 should be plenty adequate to digitize LPs, given Atkinson's review.

 

Let's not forget that one audiophile's adequate is another's not so good.

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For myself, I'm not certain I can distinguish 24/96 and 24/192 (I'm going to investigate further by down-sampling a few 24/192 tracks using dBPoweramp) . The fretting over 32/384 (and DSD) strikes me as computer geek overkill. YMMV.

 

Don't know if there were any computer geeks among the audio journalists invited by Marantz for the presentation of their latest NA-11s USB DAC, but according to Michael Fremer they all preferred DSD playback to 24/96 and 24/192 PCM.

 

"Well-recorded files included 192/24 and 96/24 bit resolution ones that sounded quite good but all agreed the best digital sound came from an analog tape-to-DSD transfer. It wasn’t even close. It was the only one that produced a credible, involving, three-dimensional soundstage and a sense of space that made you want to look as well as listen."

Marantz Launches NA-11S1 Reference Class Network Audio Player and USB DAC | Analog Planet

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Let's not forget that one audiophile's adequate is another's not so good.

 

Very true, but if you can't distinguish a 24/192 rip from the source, then what is the advantage to taking it to DSD256 or, I don't know, DXD512? Is it just because you can? Or because you don't trust your own lying ears?

 

As I've written before, computer audio is a really bad idea. It combines audiophile nervosa with computer geek compulsiveness.

Roon ROCK (Roon 1.7; NUC7i3) > Ayre QB-9 Twenty > Ayre AX-5 Twenty > Thiel CS2.4SE (crossovers rebuilt with Clarity CSA and Multicap RTX caps, Mills MRA-12 resistors; ERSE and Jantzen coils; Cardas binding posts and hookup wire); Cardas and OEM power cables, interconnects, and speaker cables

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Very true, but if you can't distinguish a 24/192 rip from the source

 

There are people who can't distinguish 16/44 from the source, should we all just settle on that format, and forget about hi-rez altogether?

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There are people who can't distinguish 16/44 from the source, should we all just settle on that format, and forget about hi-rez altogether?

 

C'mon, Hiro, that's not what I wrote.

Roon ROCK (Roon 1.7; NUC7i3) > Ayre QB-9 Twenty > Ayre AX-5 Twenty > Thiel CS2.4SE (crossovers rebuilt with Clarity CSA and Multicap RTX caps, Mills MRA-12 resistors; ERSE and Jantzen coils; Cardas binding posts and hookup wire); Cardas and OEM power cables, interconnects, and speaker cables

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BTW, if Ayre's device is transparent to the source (at least in the opinion of one reviewer, and the source being a vinyl record), does it mean that Ayre will never introduce any other improvements to its design?

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I'd like to know what DXD512 is?

 

Seriously, judging by Charles Hansen's posts, I wonder if he listens to his own products. I mean why is he taking John Atkinson's word for it? How are his own ears? Has he listened and compared sources before and after the ADC and DAC process. Has he compared DSD to PCM himself? Seems like he hasn't.

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I'd like to know what DXD512 is?.

 

Umm, my failed attempt at humor. But such a thing can only be weeks away from being announced! And it will probably have as many desirable titles as DSD256.

 

Seriously, judging by Charles Hansen's posts, I wonder if he listens to his own products. I mean why is he taking John Atkinson's word for it? How are his own ears? Has he listened and compared sources before and after the ADC and DAC process. Has he compared DSD to PCM himself? Seems like he hasn't.

 

Hopefully, that's your failed attempt at humor rather than the destructive nonsense that it appears to be.

 

Some of Hansen's thought re: DSD can be read here: Q&A with Charles Hansen of Ayre Acoustics Page 2 | AudioStream

 

For myself, I haven't yet heard a DSD file but am curious to try after I get my QB-9 upgraded. But even if it sounds better than PCM, I can't get excited about any of the (few) available titles. I suppose that could change. Just 2-3 years ago, there were fewer than ten 24/96 titles that I was willing to pay for.

 

What are your experiences with DSD v PCM?

Roon ROCK (Roon 1.7; NUC7i3) > Ayre QB-9 Twenty > Ayre AX-5 Twenty > Thiel CS2.4SE (crossovers rebuilt with Clarity CSA and Multicap RTX caps, Mills MRA-12 resistors; ERSE and Jantzen coils; Cardas binding posts and hookup wire); Cardas and OEM power cables, interconnects, and speaker cables

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Umm, my failed attempt at humor. But such a thing can only be weeks away from being announced! And it will probably have as many desirable titles as DSD256.

 

 

 

Hopefully, that's your failed attempt at humor rather than the destructive nonsense that it appears to be.

 

Some of Hansen's thought re: DSD can be read here: Q&A with Charles Hansen of Ayre Acoustics Page 2 | AudioStream

 

For myself, I haven't yet heard a DSD file but am curious to try after I get my QB-9 upgraded. But even if it sounds better than PCM, I can't get excited about any of the (few) available titles. I suppose that could change. Just 2-3 years ago, there were fewer than ten 24/96 titles that I was willing to pay for.

 

What are your experiences with DSD v PCM?

 

I think I've read pretty much everything Charles Hansen has written on the subject. You'll see I asked a question in that thread. The difference between PCM and DSD is quite audible. I've demo'd it to regular people who can hear the difference. Which is why I can't understand why he would make such a statement like PCM is good enough.

 

I also recall him stating there was virtually no difference between BB DAC chips and ESS Sabre DACs unless you need the extra features the Sabre DAC has. Now all of a sudden at the advice of Gordon Rankin he finally listened to the Sabre DAC and was stunned at how good it sounded. Well, why didn't he use every DAC chip on he market 4 years ago. I'd think anyone would use every possible resource at their disposal to design their product.

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is the price REALLY $1500?

The short answer is no. Read thru the thread.

Roon ROCK (Roon 1.7; NUC7i3) > Ayre QB-9 Twenty > Ayre AX-5 Twenty > Thiel CS2.4SE (crossovers rebuilt with Clarity CSA and Multicap RTX caps, Mills MRA-12 resistors; ERSE and Jantzen coils; Cardas binding posts and hookup wire); Cardas and OEM power cables, interconnects, and speaker cables

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labjr, you might hear differences between DSD and PCM because you equipment is sensitive to the ultrasonic garbage that is left in audio if you listen DSD without filtering below 30-50kHz. What you hear "different" might be just intermodulation and harmonic distortions. Something similar with what a tape recorder produces or a tube amplifier...

 

I have lots of SACD recordings and the difference is not that big. Please specify what is your test system and discs.

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I've demo'd it to regular people who can hear the difference. Which is why I can't understand why he would make such a statement like PCM is good enough.

 

OK, I get it now. There's no sense in saying "I disagree and here's why" when you can just s**t on someone instead. sigh

Roon ROCK (Roon 1.7; NUC7i3) > Ayre QB-9 Twenty > Ayre AX-5 Twenty > Thiel CS2.4SE (crossovers rebuilt with Clarity CSA and Multicap RTX caps, Mills MRA-12 resistors; ERSE and Jantzen coils; Cardas binding posts and hookup wire); Cardas and OEM power cables, interconnects, and speaker cables

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I actually did read through the thread and found no pertinent information to answer my question. Perhaps you can answer as authoritatively about the actual price and when it will be available?

Michael @ Ayre is the authority you seek: 303-442-7300 x223

Roon ROCK (Roon 1.7; NUC7i3) > Ayre QB-9 Twenty > Ayre AX-5 Twenty > Thiel CS2.4SE (crossovers rebuilt with Clarity CSA and Multicap RTX caps, Mills MRA-12 resistors; ERSE and Jantzen coils; Cardas binding posts and hookup wire); Cardas and OEM power cables, interconnects, and speaker cables

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Let's stop arguing, shall we?

 

I think that if Charles Hansen loves Sony & Philips so much that he isn't willing to stray away, in any way, from the SACD standard defined by the two corporations, not even in the (DRM-free, open, and consumer driven) computer environment, we won't convince him otherwise. Although this kind of attitude may seem strange to some of us, we have to respect it.

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