Ayre wants $1.5K for DSD'ed QB-9

[PeterSt]

I have been reading somewhere on the Net that someone created a 10,000 rpm turntable. Now *that* is what I like !

 

I am now looking for a nice disc changer which can turn/change LPs each 3.96 seconds.

Anyone knowing about such a thing ?

Or will it be an user upgradable module later perhaps ?

 

Or is this too offtopic ?

 

 

PS: Does this all work through a buffered downsampler ?

[sandyk]

Does each LP hold 3.95 seconds of DSD material ?

[Charles Hansen]

I have been reading somewhere on the Net that someone created a 10,000 rpm turntable. Now *that* is what I like !

 

I am now looking for a nice disc changer which can turn/change LPs each 3.96 seconds.

Anyone knowing about such a thing ?

Or will it be an user upgradable module later perhaps ?

 

Or is this too offtopic ?

 

No, no, ridiculous formats seem to be very much on topic around here! Please let's keep hearing about more insanity. If your penis is larger than mine, that's OK because my format is better than your format. And my grandmother can beat up your grandmother.

 

Does each LP hold 3.95 seconds of DSD material ?

 

No, no, no! That is too obsolete. Each LP holds 3.95 seconds of data direct from 24-bit DSD modulator running at 4096 Fs. DNR is over 400 dB and frequency response extends up to 100 MHz. This is the minimum to compensate for my "personal" deficiencies....

 

Watch this space for more soon.

 

Cheers,

[Onkle Je]

Hi Charles,

 

 

I can't say I'm not having fun reading this thread.

Anyway, I must say I'm more focused on when the QB-9 DSD and its upgrade will be available for there's no doubt I'll get my own QB-9 upgraded as soon as possible. I think I've read somewhere that it will be available sometime this summer. Can you confirm the information ? Is it also true for worldwide distribution ?

Thank you again.

[Charles Hansen]

Hello Onkle,

 

I think this thread is just as silly as the formats are. No serious record label is going to make products that can only be played back on one or two brands of hardware. How do they expect to stay in business selling to 1000 potential customers? In contrast there are over 800 million CD players in the world, yet Apple will not even sell 44/16 downloads...

 

Some of the people who participate at this forum have forgotten how to think, I think...

 

Regarding QB-9 upgrades, they will be available world-wide. We are selling the new machines now and the upgrade kits will be shipping next month. But we have limited resources to make them. There are thousands of QB-9's so I expect the waiting line to become long. It took us several years to build that many units, so we will be lucky if we can upgrade them all within one year. The best thing to do is to contact the distributor for your country as the distributor will be performing the upgrades. You can also use the webmail form on our "Contact" page to try to put your name on the waiting list.

 

Thanks for your understanding and patience.

[Onkle Je]

Hello Onkle,

 

I think this thread is just as silly as the formats are. No serious record label is going to make products that can only be played back on one or two brands of hardware. How do they expect to stay in business selling to 1000 potential customers? In contrast there are over 800 million CD players in the world, yet Apple will not even sell 44/16 downloads...

 

Some of the people who participate at this forum have forgotten how to think, I think...

 

Regarding QB-9 upgrades, they will be available world-wide. We are selling the new machines now and the upgrade kits will be shipping next month. But we have limited resources to make them. There are thousands of QB-9's so I expect the waiting line to become long. It took us several years to build that many units, so we will be lucky if we can upgrade them all within one year. The best thing to do is to contact the distributor for your country as the distributor will be performing the upgrades. You can also use the webmail form on our "Contact" page to try to put your name on the waiting list.

 

Thanks for your understanding and patience.

 

Thank you for your response, Charles. The QB-9 already sounds great, so it's not like if I couldn't wait a few months. I will contact the distributor in my country (France), as you suggest.

Regarding the waiting list, will it affect waiting time outside the U.S., also and if yes, how ?

 

Thanks

[Miska]

I think this thread is just as silly as the formats are. No serious record label is going to make products that can only be played back on one or two brands of hardware.

 

At least I can play any DSD on any PCM capable DAC and any PCM on any DSD capable DAC. Why delivery format have anything to do with hardware? Player software's job is to convert content to play on the target hardware.

 

For me, it would be enough that DAC supports PCM, DSD or multi-bit SDM at one bit depth and one sampling rate. Only one can be optimal for the analog stages anyway, unless you have different analog stages for all. At least same stage shouldn't be used for PCM and DSD.

[Miska]

The Ayre is more flexible and includes both PCM and DSD.

 

I could even consider it if it had neither, but just direct native output from the converter. I don't need hardcoded conversions to PCM nor DSD. I want converters, but I don't want their DSP. Peter has a DAC that works the way I like, it's a PCM ladder DAC. And some DACs let me do same with DSD, untouched, just converted.

[askat1988]

This thread is truly entertaining, an industry leader arguing with home hobbyists. Don't know why you would waste your breath Charles?

 

Anyway, is there going to be a QB-9 DSD in Newport this weekend?

[elcorso]

I have been reading somewhere on the Net that someone created a 10,000 rpm turntable. Now *that* is what I like !

 

I am now looking for a nice disc changer which can turn/change LPs each 3.96 seconds.

Anyone knowing about such a thing ?

Or will it be an user upgradable module later perhaps ?

 

Or is this too offtopic ?

 

 

PS: Does this all work through a buffered downsampler ?

 

Hi Peter,

 

Everything is "on-topic", but politic & religion...

 

BTW, I have one Trap and Skeet Machine, it achieves 10,000 rpm and turn/change discs faster than 3.96 seconds:

 

 

Regards,

 

Roch

[elcorso]

Hello Corso,

 

No, actually Barrows is correct. There is a high level of noise in all DSD recordings. You cannot hear this noise, because it is above the range of normal human hearing. Nevertheless, this out-of-band (OOB) noise causes many problems, from overlosding of poorly designed playback equipment to problems with production of recordings (eg, overdubs, EQ, reverb, and other effects).

 

This is one huge reason why DSD is such a VERY small portion of the market. The other reason is that it costs a lot of money to replace all of your existing equipment to purchase new equipment, and there is basically no reason to do so.

 

Best regards,

 

Hi Charles,

 

But "overdubs, EQ, reverb, and other effects" are for mass production, bad quality recordings... Where the SQ would be destroyed by PCM also.

 

And yes, I also mentioned the cost...

 

Kind regards,

 

Roch

[elcorso]

This thread is truly entertaining, an industry leader arguing with home hobbyists. Don't know why you would waste your breath Charles?

 

Anyway, is there going to be a QB-9 DSD in Newport this weekend?

 

It's nice, at least to me, to interact with such an industry leader.

 

Those that never meet and know customers necessities and doubts could be out of market in a few months.

 

Roch

[matthias]

I could even consider it if it had neither, but just direct native output from the converter. I don't need hardcoded conversions to PCM nor DSD. I want converters, but I don't want their DSP. Peter has a DAC that works the way I like, it's a PCM ladder DAC. And some DACs let me do same with DSD, untouched, just converted.

 

Miska,

I like your approach. Which DSD DACs do you refer to ?

matthias

[jvlata]

Miska,

I like your approach. Which DSD DACs do you refer to ?

matthias

 

I think Miska is refering to this DAC Phasure NOS1 24/768 async USB DAC

[matthias]

I think Miska is refering to this DAC Phasure NOS1 24/768 async USB DAC

 

No,

this DAC is not a DSD DAC.

[SoNic67]

Thanks for your understanding and patience.

 

I like your signature.

PS: I'm another dumb EE.

[Charles Hansen]

Thank you for your response, Charles. The QB-9 already sounds great, so it's not like if I couldn't wait a few months. I will contact the distributor in my country (France), as you suggest.

Regarding the waiting list, will it affect waiting time outside the U.S., also and if yes, how ?

 

Thanks

 

Hello Onkle,

 

You have a good attitude about the need for the wait -- good for you!! :-)

 

For the overseas units we send a kit with modified PCB's. So we do all the hard work here and the job for the overseas technician is very simple. That is the best way to ensure that every update is done properly. So yes, the updates done here will also affect the updates done overseas. We have never done an update on this large of a scale before. I think we will work out an arrangement with the company that assembles our PCB's with the wave solder machine to have them do some of the work. Then we will probably do a batch of 20 units per week. After the PCB's come back here we will do the REALLY tricky parts and then put them into a test fixture to test them for proper performance. Then the technician overseas will simply exchange the PCB's. It will take a month or two to set up the program and have it running at full speed. I would like to update all of the units by the end of the year. Thank you for your understanding.

 

Best regards,

[Charles Hansen]

This thread is truly entertaining, an industry leader arguing with home hobbyists. Don't know why you would waste your breath Charles?

 

Anyway, is there going to be a QB-9 DSD in Newport this weekend?

 

Hello Askat --

 

The internet is an interesting place. You never know who you are dealing with. Sometimes even a beginner has a good idea or needs some help. But your are right that there is no point to argue.

 

Regarding Newport Beach, I am not sure what is in the system. I hope they will have either the DX-5-DSD or the QB-9-DSD and would be surprised if they didn't.

 

And just last night we finished the first prototype KX-5 preamplifier, a companion to the new VX-5 power amplifier (shipping since March). This combination is performing very well and should give excellent sound. It should be worth stopping by to visit. We are showing in a brand new store in Pasadena that is owned by the son of the late Brooks Berdan. I believe it is called Audio Element. Please stop by if you have a chance!

 

Best regards,

[Onkle Je]

Hello Onkle,

 

You have a good attitude about the need for the wait -- good for you!! :-)

 

For the overseas units we send a kit with modified PCB's. So we do all the hard work here and the job for the overseas technician is very simple. That is the best way to ensure that every update is done properly. So yes, the updates done here will also affect the updates done overseas. We have never done an update on this large of a scale before. I think we will work out an arrangement with the company that assembles our PCB's with the wave solder machine to have them do some of the work. Then we will probably do a batch of 20 units per week. After the PCB's come back here we will do the REALLY tricky parts and then put them into a test fixture to test them for proper performance. Then the technician overseas will simply exchange the PCB's. It will take a month or two to set up the program and have it running at full speed. I would like to update all of the units by the end of the year. Thank you for your understanding.

 

Best regards,

 

Thank you Charles for your very accurate responses. I'll try to put my name on the waiting list then. Patience, mother of all vertues...

[Charles Hansen]

Hi Peter,

 

Everything is "on-topic", but politic & religion...

 

BTW, I have one Trap and Skeet Machine, it achieves 10,000 rpm and turn/change discs faster than 3.96 seconds:

 

Regards,

 

Roch

 

Roch, is it true what I have heard? Does this player have excellent transient response with very good "slam" and "impact" in the bass?

 

Thanks,

[Adyc]

Watch this space.

 

This is from Grimm Audio DSD FAQ:

 

All right, but why buy a 64fs converter? This

seems like old technology. With 128fs and

256fs DSD and DXD (352.8kHz / 32-bit)

formats being introduced, aren’t these formats

a safer bet?

The higher rate formats were designed to

get around technical issues related to signal

processing in DAW’s, not to solve sonic

issues in converters. The quality of the

signal is ultimately limited by the analogue

performance of the converter used, not by the

data format. Grimm Audio strives to attain the

best audio performance possible. The primary

recipe is to keep the signal path simple,

resulting in a discrete-circuit continuous time

architecture. This design was shown to deliver

its best at 1 bit and 2.8224MHz sampling rate.

A substantially higher sampling rate would

introduce settling time problems, resulting in

noise modulation artefacts. More bits would

introduce linearity problems and yet another

breed of modulation artefacts. This strategy

has paid off in unprecedented measured and

sonic performance.

[Charles Hansen]

Hi Charles,

 

But "overdubs, EQ, reverb, and other effects" are for mass production, bad quality recordings... Where the SQ would be destroyed by PCM also.

 

And yes, I also mentioned the cost...

 

Kind regards,

 

Roch

 

Hello Roch,

 

I was just working with a wonderful classical pianist who made a recording in the Meistersaal in Berlin. The recording was done by Emil Berliner studios. The signal chain was very simple -- one pair of Sennheiser cardioid microphones into an RME preamp and then the QA-9 at 192/24. The sound quality is quite good.

 

I would prefer to do the recording with omni mic's as the bass is very extended. But then some of the soundstage precision is lost, so they used cardioid. The bass response of cardioid varies with the distance and always rolls off in the bottom octave. So some EQ is required. Luckily I chose to do the project in PCM so it is trivial to restore the proper tonal balance. The "raw" files make the 9 foot Steinway grand sound like a 4 foot baby grand. There is not the proper weight in the left hand unless some EQ is applied. And this is definitely a purist recording compared to 99.9% of all recordings.

 

Best regards,

[Charles Hansen]

This is from Grimm Audio DSD FAQ:

 

All right, but why buy a 64fs converter? This

seems like old technology. With 128fs and

256fs DSD and DXD (352.8kHz / 32-bit)

formats being introduced, aren’t these formats

a safer bet?

The higher rate formats were designed to

get around technical issues related to signal

processing in DAW’s, not to solve sonic

issues in converters. The quality of the

signal is ultimately limited by the analogue

performance of the converter used, not by the

data format. Grimm Audio strives to attain the

best audio performance possible. The primary

recipe is to keep the signal path simple,

resulting in a discrete-circuit continuous time

architecture. This design was shown to deliver

its best at 1 bit and 2.8224MHz sampling rate.

A substantially higher sampling rate would

introduce settling time problems, resulting in

noise modulation artefacts. More bits would

introduce linearity problems and yet another

breed of modulation artefacts. This strategy

has paid off in unprecedented measured and

sonic performance.

 

Bruno Putzeys is a very smart guy and the products he designs for Grimm are excellent sounding. It would be interesting to compare the Grimm to the Ayre. The Grimm importer is in Boulder, as is the distributor of the Sonoma DSD DAW. Perhaps we will arrange a comparison. We have already compared the Ayre to the Meitner ADC's that come with the Sonoma. I believe that the Sonoma distributor had a slight preference for the Ayre but it is always best to speak to him directly. Maybe he just said that to be nice to me!

 

Best regards,

[labjr]

I like your signature.

PS: I'm another dumb EE.

 

I think he left out one line

 

"Was picked on in school as a kid:)"

[beetlemania]

I think he left out one line

 

"Was picked on in school as a kid:)"

 

"Picked on as a manufacturer by DSD fetishists"