OPPO 103/105 Does Stereo/Multi-Channel DSD!

[Kal Rubinson]

Cool. What edition?

July

[russtafarian]

• [h=2]Summary: The current Oppo DSD playback guide for audiofools [/h]
  Sorry for all the above posts, but for simple audiofools like me, (who might be "foolish" enough to be following this little thread) I thought I'd post a kinda summary: Please those in the know correct me if I'm wrong:
  
  
   
  
  
  VIA SMB: Yes it works. But tracks are listed in the incorrect order. Just like they are on a USB attached storage device. This can be rectified by supplying the Oppo info on CUE sheets. These are additional bits of code telling the Oppo how to playback the files and need to be embedded right now by the user and placed onto the attachable storage or on the NAS SMB "share" The QUE sheet approach seems to be the only way to "force" the Oppo to playback gapless. Oppo has not got the QUE sheet process easy for simple Audiofools. This can get rather complicated and very time consuming very quickly. A huge issue for those with large libraries.
  
  
   
  
  
  VIA UPnP: No it doesn't work for DSD. APE files appear in the menu of the media server. This appears to be a firmware issue on behalf of Oppo. But oh boy does it work for Multichannel WAV, and FLAC> Yeh you can get clicks between tracks, but it works. And here is the rub and where it gets exciting..., because you can see the potential and benefits of the UPnP playback approach. Because a UPnP media server sorts the track order issue for you. No QUE sheets needed. The downside of this approach, I am lead to believe is you won't ever get gapless playback via UPnP. Is this correct? Anyway you also get a real simple way of adding your own tags (if Minimserver is used) And wait there is more. You get to use great additional software for controlling the Oppo and playback. Software like BubbleUPnP or what I'm trying : Plug Player. With PP, suddenly you get to control playback to the Oppo via an Iphone or OSX. How cool is that!!!
  
  
   
  
  
  VIA asynch USB. (only available on the 105) say via Foobar or JRiver. Stereo playback yes. Multichannel no. Oppo doesn't support multichannel playback via that USB interface.
  
  
   
  
  
   
  
  

  
   
   
   
   
  

 

Just to clarify the last section "VIA asynch USB", DSD can be played back in stereo with Foobar or Jriver into the 105 but must be converted to PCM by the software. The 105's asynch USB input does not decode native DSD.

 

Russ

[bleedink]

Makes perfect sense. A DSD DAC incapable of playing DSD files. I was really excited about this unit now not so much. Sounds like most of the ways to officially play DSD just happen to work save USB. SMB sounds like it was a software mistake that someone was lucky enough to make work. I certainly had a much different impression of what their 105 would do as a DAC.

[Paul R]

Yes, it sounds like the device plays disc very well, but has some - almost ridiculous - issues when used as a DAC or an UPnP rendering device.

Clicks, gaps, out of order playback - all of those are not just minor annoyances, but qualify as showstopper issues to me.

 

-Paul

 

 

Makes perfect sense. A DSD DAC incapable of playing DSD files. I was really excited about this unit now not so much. Sounds like most of the ways to officially play DSD just happen to work save USB. SMB sounds like it was a software mistake that someone was lucky enough to make work. I certainly had a much different impression of what their 105 would do as a DAC.

[russtafarian]

Makes perfect sense. A DSD DAC incapable of playing DSD files.

 

Let's not be so hard on Oppo. They put a lot of nice features into the 103/105 players but DSD was not a big consideration at the time. Consumer DSD file playback has only recently emerged and they just missed it for this R&D cycle. In the mean time, they are doing their best to get DSD via attached storage working.

 

If they mess up DSD implementation in their next-gen players, then feel free to go after them.

 

As for UPnP, that's a crap shoot regardless of the player/software being used.

 

Russ

[mav52]

People seem to forget this is a universal player not a dedicated DSD DAC.

 

A player that supports ; Blu-ray Disc, Blu-ray 3D, SACD, DVD-Audio, Netflix Instant Streaming, CinemaNow, Rhapsody Online Music, Pandora Internet Radio and a few others for this money is unreal...And with a firmware upgrade OPPO provided some capabilities for DSD. If someone needs a DSD dac, not sure why they just don't go out a buy one. There's a few on the market for under $1000.

[Paul R]

UPnP playback of PCM material has the same issues to be honest. It is like - I don't know - rolling all the windows up in your car to keep the rain from getting in, but leaving the sunroof open?

 

-Paul

 

 

Let's not be so hard on Oppo. They put a lot of nice features into the 103/105 players but DSD was not a big consideration at the time. Consumer DSD file playback has only recently emerged and they just missed it for this R&D cycle. In the mean time, they are doing their best to get DSD via attached storage working.

 

If they mess up DSD implementation in their next-gen players, then feel free to go after them.

 

As for UPnP, that's a crap shoot regardless of the player/software being used.

 

Russ

[Holzohr]

I second mav52 and also russtafarian, first of all the Oppo is an universal (disc) player. DSD streaming was something, I didn`t dare to hope that it will be possible with the Oppo when I bought the player. And now, we maybe expect too much at once from the Oppo guys. They seemed to be surprised to hear about the MinimServer, an UPnP server that is able to support DSD files. That`s my hope either the Oppo and the Minim can be a tandem in the near future or maybe better the MediaControlHD app will be capable to access on network shares (included full cue file support). At the moment I have connected an USB drive with all my DSD files. Together with the MediaControlHD app it is (imho) the most convenient way for DSD streaming. I only miss the gapless playback with some albums.

[wappinghigh]

I second mav52 and also russtafarian, first of all the Oppo is an universal (disc) player. DSD streaming was something, I didn`t dare to hope that it will be possible with the Oppo when I bought the player. And now, we maybe expect too much at once from the Oppo guys. They seemed to be surprised to hear about the MinimServer, an UPnP server that is able to support DSD files. That`s my hope either the Oppo and the Minim can be a tandem in the near future or maybe better the MediaControlHD app will be capable to access on network shares (included full cue file support). At the moment I have connected an USB drive with all my DSD files. Together with the MediaControlHD app it is (imho) the most convenient way for DSD streaming. I only miss the gapless playback with some albums.

+3

 

I second you all as well.

 

While we wait for miniserver<>oppo to get all cosy together for UPnP..and yes it just may happen .. Follow "H"'s little CUE trick to get gapless, the order fixed, and other SMB share issues. It works

[RoseKloud666]

It seems, they got a(nother) call from Sony. I think I will not invest in another Oppo anymore. DSD via SMB is ok to me for the moment. It is a plus that I can sit on the sofa and select albums for listening by remote control. Of course, I won`t install the next firmware(s) that quick anymore. Even when you study the changelog before, you can not be sure about any other features they removed. That`s what I have learnt. Also removing the ISO-support was a "gift" that was not announced before (after what I have read).

 

I have all my SACDs on hard disk. It means that a DSD-streamer is the better option to me.

 

Heres my reply from Oppo . I wont up firmware either ,and I prob. wont purchase another Oppo . Are they passing the buck here ? If i owned the company all decisions would be mine .

 

"Unfortunately the removal of SACD-R was done by the decoder manufacturer. Since they no longer want to support SACD-R as they can now legitimately playback DSF/DFF files over attached storage, they have removed this feature from their SDK. Since we use the SDK to develop our firmware, we can no longer support SACD-R media going forward."

[Audio_ELF]

Heres my reply from Oppo . I wont up firmware either ,and I prob. wont purchase another Oppo . Are they passing the buck here ? If i owned the company all decisions would be mine.

 

"Unfortunately the removal of SACD-R was done by the decoder manufacturer. Since they no longer want to support SACD-R as they can now legitimately playback DSF/DFF files over attached storage, they have removed this feature from their SDK. Since we use the SDK to develop our firmware, we can no longer support SACD-R media going forward."

They are more obfuscating the buck ... Oppo Digital are a subsidiary of Oppo (Chineese company) who appear to be very closely tied to (if not part of thr same company as) Mediatek the decoder manufacturer. Put it this way every Oppo product has been based on Mediatek reference layouts...

 

Eloise

[Kal Rubinson]

deleted

[Audio_ELF]

In Oppo's defence was SACD-R support ever an official (advertised) function?

It seems, they got a(nother) call from Sony. I think I will not invest in another Oppo anymore.

[mav52]

Heres my reply from Oppo . I wont up firmware either ,and I prob. wont purchase another Oppo . Are they passing the buck here ? If i owned the company all decisions would be mine .

 

"Unfortunately the removal of SACD-R was done by the decoder manufacturer. Since they no longer want to support SACD-R as they can now legitimately playback DSF/DFF files over attached storage, they have removed this feature from their SDK. Since we use the SDK to develop our firmware, we can no longer support SACD-R media going forward."

 

Thats the same response I got and a little more "" SACD-R was never an officially supported format and MediaTek had only enabled it because they had no means of playing back self-authored DSD media in the past. Now that the player can do this on attached storage, MediaTek has removed SACD-R support in the SDK used for our current line of players.""

 

The very same thing could happen to any audio company out there buying parts from a manufacturer. I say don't buy the product if SACD-R is so darn important, but I'm not sure 6 or 7 people not buying the OPPO is going to hurt their sells after it's a universal player and people are buying the player for that reason, not DSD..

[Holzohr]

In Oppo's defence was SACD-R support ever an official (advertised) function?

 

Of course, it was not. Imho, they should have mentioned about the removal of SACD-R playback in their firmware changelog as they did with the removal of BDMV/AVCHD folder playback (that you can bypass easily).

 

My quoted lines sound a bit harsh in retrospect. Sorry, OPPO!

[TarnishedEars]

Heres my reply from Oppo . I wont up firmware either ,and I prob. wont purchase another Oppo . Are they passing the buck here ? If i owned the company all decisions would be mine .

 

"Unfortunately the removal of SACD-R was done by the decoder manufacturer. Since they no longer want to support SACD-R as they can now legitimately playback DSF/DFF files over attached storage, they have removed this feature from their SDK. Since we use the SDK to develop our firmware, we can no longer support SACD-R media going forward."

My bet is that moving forward, no new players are going to support (in either a documented or in an undocumented way) the SACD-R format. I strongly suspect that list of players which will play SACD-Rs will remain fixed from this point forward. And it is possible that list may well even decline if other manufacturers update their Mediatek-based firmwares (what do you want to bet that if you happen to upgrade your firmware on a 93, or a 95 that you will loose this feature too?).

[Hiro]

^ "DSD cannot be played via DLNA/UPnP" Reason: "SMB must be used for DSD playback as the player needs to mount the file, something that is not available when using DLNA/UPnP."

 

Does it mean they won't be able to make it work with a DSD64/128 ready DLNA NAS like the Buffalo LS421D?

[Audio_ELF]

Does it mean they won't be able to make it work with a DSD64/128 ready DLNA NAS like the Buffalo LS421D?

Currently it won't work. If they will make it work in the future is anyone's guess...

 

It should be possible but they may feel its not worth the effort / cost for such a small market!

 

Eloise

[Hiro]

Currently it won't work. If they will make it work in the future is anyone's guess...

 

It should be possible but they may feel its not worth the effort / cost for such a small market!

 

Eloise

 

The same thing people were saying about making USB DACs DSD compatible, yet today there are dozens of such devices on the market

 

With DSD-ready DLNA NAS on the market, I don't see any reason why manufacturers shouldn't make their network players DSD compatible.

[Hiro]

Audio ELF,

 

The following Pioneer receivers: SC-LX57、VSA-1123、SC-2023 have already been confirmed to work with the Buffalo DLNA NAS. They are ready to stream DSD64 and DSD128 files via DLNA.

 

If Pioneer could do it, why not Oppo, or Marantz, etc... ?

[Audio_ELF]

Audio ELF,

 

The following Pioneer receivers: SC-LX57、VSA-1123、SC-2023 have already been confirmed to work with the Buffalo DLNA NAS. They are ready to stream DSD64 and DSD128 files via DLNA.

 

If Pioneer could do it, why not Oppo, or Marantz, etc... ?

Because they don't want to...

 

As I say its about them deciding if the cost will result in higher sales.

[mav52]

Because they don't want to...

 

As I say its about them deciding if the cost will result in higher sales.

 

Bingo, I don't think they don't want to and we seem to forget this is a universal player and the majority of users use it for plain old 2chl maybe multi chl and watching movies so adding the functionality might not be worth the possible decrease of sales for OPPO's universal player(s). I personally don't think OPPO wants to price themselves out of the market all for a feature. But who knows OPPO might be designing a player to handle those features.

[Audio_ELF]

But who knows OPPO might be designing a player to handle those features.

Well the truth is Oppo Digital don't do much in designing the player ... they just use Mediatek's reference design!

 

Eloise

[mav52]

Audio ELF,

 

The following Pioneer receivers: SC-LX57、VSA-1123、SC-2023 have already been confirmed to work with the Buffalo DLNA NAS. They are ready to stream DSD64 and DSD128 files via DLNA.

 

If Pioneer could do it, why not Oppo, or Marantz, etc... ?

 

 

Hiro, true but those Pioneer receivers were just announced on July 6 2013, I say give the other companies time as Denon and Marantz already launched their product earlier in the year.

[mav52]

Well the truth is Oppo Digital don't do much in designing the player ... they just use Mediatek's reference design!

 

Eloise

Yep