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I'm a little concerned...

 

Last night there was a post on here commenting (very negatively / critically) on a transaction a user had with Paul Hynes. This morning the thread is no where to be seen. Is Chris censoring what posts and comments can be made? If there was a reason this thread was censored then I think Chris should speak up and be open - just removing posts looks very underhanded.

 

Eloise

Eloise

---

...in my opinion / experience...

While I agree "Everything may matter" working out what actually affects the sound is a trickier thing.

And I agree "Trust your ears" but equally don't allow them to fool you - trust them with a bit of skepticism.

keep your mind open... But mind your brain doesn't fall out.

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Eliose,

 

I am the user who wrote the comments which might be useful to some people and which might be obnoxious to many of pure music lover.

 

Yes, it was suddently deleted without any pre or post notice to me. I somewhat understood or even expected a possible deletion before I posted it. That was the reason I sent a lengthy PM to Chris to get a permission of the posting one day BEFORE I actually posted it. But I didn't get any answer (it might be too lengthy PM for him to read). So posted it, but it was gone. After I saw the deletion, asked him last night what forum rule I have violated and waiting for his answer.

 

He might think that there were probably too much emotion and unproved allegation (at least to him)-it was simply impossible for me to prove everything which happend last 8 months within a single post. So I was waiting for Paul Hynes' response to build up discussion based on what he would say. I saw his rebuttal (again in my opinion, a story made up by him) and wrote a rebuttal to him. But sadly it was already gone at that moment. I felt really bad not because my post was deleted without any pre- post notice, but rather because we lost a chance to show/prove/disprove a truth.

 

Chris, I

 

know that my opinion about him was solely based on one time (but lengthy), private experience, but isn't it true that all the reviews/comments here are most likely based on one time and private experience as well?

 

Any comment will be welcome. If you guide me about which way I can bring up this issue again, it would be much appreciated. I am thinking "fact only" version which only include his rebuttal to my previous post and our entire email exchange at the order process. Or if that thread was deleted by any mistake, please revive it so that I can rebut it. Will it be ok?

 

Wookyung

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Far be it from me to be telling Chris how to run his site... but personally I would have prefered one of the following (with the third the preferable)...

  1. The post deleted with an explanation as to why the post was deleted in it's place.
  2. The thread locked, but the post left and Paul Hynes invited to post a response.
  3. The thread left there with Paul invited to post a response and for other people to post their own experiences.

 

As it is, with the thread removed completely without any explanation; I'm sorry but the perception is that Chris doesn't want to risk damaging relations with manufacturers by allowing negative feedback to be posted.

 

I'm not going to post any more on this (unless a discussion on censorship on this site and the wider internet begins) but do hope Chris will respond...

 

Eloise

Eloise

---

...in my opinion / experience...

While I agree "Everything may matter" working out what actually affects the sound is a trickier thing.

And I agree "Trust your ears" but equally don't allow them to fool you - trust them with a bit of skepticism.

keep your mind open... But mind your brain doesn't fall out.

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I saw that one, and when I saw it, there was definitely some legal threats going back and forth. Paul Hynes did post a reply. I am rather glad Chris removed that. I can understand why too- at least in the U.S., that kind of stuff opens you to all sorts of legal repercussions. As much as I love free and open speech, defending against the silly legal stuff that could be aimed at Chris, as well as the costs of discovery should it come to that, are expensive.

 

It's kind of inappropriate to subject our host to those potential legal costs and ramifications, IMHO. Not to mention posting details of a legal case on a public form is probably, at least, in poor taste. After it is settled, perhaps it makes sense, so long as the terms of settlement permit public disclosure.

 

-Paul

 

 

I'm a little concerned...

 

Last night there was a post on here commenting (very negatively / critically) on a transaction a user had with Paul Hynes. This morning the thread is no where to be seen. Is Chris censoring what posts and comments can be made? If there was a reason this thread was censored then I think Chris should speak up and be open - just removing posts looks very underhanded.

 

Eloise

Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC.

Robert A. Heinlein

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Far be it from me to be telling Chris how to run his site... but personally I would have prefered one of the following (with the third the preferable)...

  1. The post deleted with an explanation as to why the post was deleted in it's place.
  2. The thread locked, but the post left and Paul Hynes invited to post a response.
  3. The thread left there with Paul invited to post a response and for other people to post their own experiences.

 

As it is, with the thread removed completely without any explanation; I'm sorry but the perception is that Chris doesn't want to risk damaging relations with manufacturers by allowing negative feedback to be posted.

 

I'm not going to post any more on this (unless a discussion on censorship on this site and the wider internet begins) but do hope Chris will respond...

 

Eloise

 

Here's my 50 cents .. the OP, who is a fairly new member (6 months) with only 5 posts prior, and in a rather ascerbic tone, lambastes a manufacturer who many respect. Of course the OP could very well be telling the truth but is this the way to go about it? Given that the issue supposedly has been ongoing for 8 months, it looks like a vendetta to me. If it were my forum, I would remove it as I wouldn't want this behavior on my forum. Chris has allowed others to share their grievances (Schiit customer service thread for example) and doesn't tend to remove much here.

 

I disagree with your perception of this Eloise but an explanation from Chris as to why it was removed would help all of us to understand what is not appropriate in his eyes.

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I disagree with your perception of this Eloise but an explanation from Chris as to why it was removed would help all of us to understand what is not appropriate in his eyes.

I perhaps should have said it COULD be perceived that Chris was censoring something to prevent offence to manufacturers.

 

It is often commented you can't unpublish something on the Internet so an explanation of where the thread went and why would have been a good idea (again IMO).

 

Eloise

Eloise

---

...in my opinion / experience...

While I agree "Everything may matter" working out what actually affects the sound is a trickier thing.

And I agree "Trust your ears" but equally don't allow them to fool you - trust them with a bit of skepticism.

keep your mind open... But mind your brain doesn't fall out.

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I am no fan of censorship but I think under the present circumstances it is justifiable. What would be ideal would be to have an explicit posted policy of no "poison pen" posts.

 

Having said that, I read Wookyung's post, and assuming the facts are as he states, he has a very legitimate gripe. The problem is the venue.

 

If X advertises on the site, and someone posts something potentially defamatory about X, it is hard not to feel some responsibility to X. The site is funded primarily through advertising, and the primary mission, in cold capitalistic terms, is to sell readership to advertisers. It is no different with the New York Times.

 

The easiest way to avoid the appearance of a conflict of interest would be to ban all such threads and delete them without explanation just as you would spam.

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Hi Guys - Thanks for starting this thread. I have no problem explaining why I removed the posts (both the OP and Paul Hyne's posts). It's all about lawsuits. In this case there is legal action taking place by one or both parties and I don't want CA to be the third. We can go back and forth all we want about CA's culpability in any such legal proceeding and the protections offered to forum owners, but the fact remains the cost associated with a lawsuit are astronomical. Anyone can sue anyone for any reason and that costs money. Whether or not the case is thrown out or proceeds to an agreement or trial might not matter if the costs associated with "lawyering up" are so high.

 

I would never remove a post just because it was about an advertiser. In fact I'd be more apt to leave it up because I have an open line of communication with CA advertisers and we'd likely be able to agree that it's better to leave such a post up on the site than stir up thoughts of a cover-up.

 

The reason I didn't leave an explanation about removing the specific post in question is that my wife, me and our 1 year old daughter are on our first family vacation together. Stopping our activities to compose an explanation from my iPhone wasn't in the cards.

 

P.S. All the equipment at CA headquarters is being watched by a house sitter and plenty of Dropcams :~)

 

 

 

Shirley and I on her first airplane ride.

Chris-Shirley-Airplane.jpg

Founder of Audiophile Style

My Audio Systems -> https://audiophile.style/system

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Thank you for the explanation Chris. Hope you enjoy your holiday.

Eloise

---

...in my opinion / experience...

While I agree "Everything may matter" working out what actually affects the sound is a trickier thing.

And I agree "Trust your ears" but equally don't allow them to fool you - trust them with a bit of skepticism.

keep your mind open... But mind your brain doesn't fall out.

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Hello guys,

 

Thanks for the comment, and I have to say I totally understand what each one of you said, especially the fact this is a wrong venue. Yes I am a newbie in this forum and you guys knows much better about what the atmosphere of this forum should be. I will follow it.

 

Only bad thing I can imagine by the no-legal-related rule is this though; if somebody criticises other guy with legitimate reasons (probably with much milder tone than I did), then the other guy can always say "I will sue you" to make post deleted and cover his fault. Of course, how many people would do that except... :)

 

Happy listening!

 

Wookyung

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If you want censorship, there's a certain forum you could join ... :)

I assume I know the forum you are meaning (and I won't mention it)... and there is a difference between saying there is a narrow subject area which can be discussed and censorship...

 

Eloise

Eloise

---

...in my opinion / experience...

While I agree "Everything may matter" working out what actually affects the sound is a trickier thing.

And I agree "Trust your ears" but equally don't allow them to fool you - trust them with a bit of skepticism.

keep your mind open... But mind your brain doesn't fall out.

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Chris,

 

Enjoy the family trip. Your daughter is VERY cute.

 

Danny

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +_iFi  AC iPurifiers >Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Conditioning+Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Matrix Element i Streamer/DAC (XLR)>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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If you want censorship, there's a certain forum you could join ... :)

 

How true...

 

Chris, have a nice vacation...

Albert Einstein: Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.

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The two tendencies are not uncoupled (in my admittedly limited but extraordinarily unpleasant experience).

 

While I dislike censorship in any form and would never want this great forum to become like Sh.TV, in this case, I do not find removal of this post censorship at all, it is entirely justified as the forum should not be used as an enabler for angry people to cause damage to any person or business anonymously. Nothing in the original post has been proven, and it has been disputed. The right place to air this is in a court. The internet is not the place to sidestep the legal system with jungle justice.

 

The forum should not be an enabler of vigilante or jungle justice.

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The forum should not be an enabler of vigilante or jungle justice.

 

Exactly

mac mini 2011, Transparent audio usb cable, bryston bda-2, hegel h300 integrated amp, audio physic virgo 25 speakers, transparent audio speaker cables interconnects and digital cables.

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While this may not be the right venue for posting this, but I feel that the HTGL has full right to seek publicity in his particular case. We do not know whether he is right or wrong in his posting, but with the censorship and lack of any response from Paul Hines I am inclined to believe in the described situation and it is shame that nowadays businesses can act like that. If it is true I am certain that such a business is not going to last long, and I am certainly not the one who will be ordering any of Paul Hynes products. Forums like that hold great value when not only people can exchange positive experiences, but also negative once.

Main system: Music Server (Win 7/64+Foobar+JPlay) -> Furutech GT2 USB Cable -> Audiolab M-DAC -> Plinius 9200 (Chord Anthem interconnects) -> ATC SCM 40 w/Kimber Kable 8TC speaker cables

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While this may not be the right venue for posting this, but I feel that the HTGL has full right to seek publicity in his particular case. We do not know whether he is right or wrong in his posting, but with the censorship and lack of any response from Paul Hines I am inclined to believe in the described situation and it is shame that nowadays businesses can act like that. If it is true I am certain that such a business is not going to last long, and I am certainly not the one who will be ordering any of Paul Hynes products. Forums like that hold great value when not only people can exchange positive experiences, but also negative once.

 

Hynes did reply, and both posts were removed.

 

People should not be able to post anonymous allegations on a forum. The forum should not host material that might cause them to be sued.

 

An individual's need to have an anonymous venue to facilitate their anger is not more important than the forum owner's need to feed his family.

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I think you are drawing a lot of conclusions here that may or may not be accurate.

 

Basically, the only real issue there was the posters are involved in an ongoing legal action, and as such, could have inadvertently involved Chris C. in a one hell of an expensive issue.

 

That's the real crime (if any) here.

 

-Paul

 

 

Hynes did reply, and both posts were removed.

 

People should not be able to post anonymous allegations on a forum. The forum should not host material that might cause them to be sued.

 

An individual's need to have an anonymous venue to facilitate their anger is not more important than the forum owner's need to feed his family.

Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC.

Robert A. Heinlein

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