Article: JRiver Mac vs JRiver Windows Sound Quality Comparison

[mitchco]

You can view the page at http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content.php?r=513-JRiver-Mac-vs-JRiver-Windows-Sound-Quality-Comparison

[mitchco]

Thanks for everyone's comments. Btw, did folks download and listen to the files on whatever system and hear any differences? I see no comments about that.

 

Just to clear up a couple of points. I did indeed listen, casually over headphones, to JRMC on the Mac and then on Windows. Heard no differences. However, it was not a properly setup ABX test as I need some hardware switching to make that work proper. So I did not include in the results.

 

Setting up proper, controlled listening tests are difficult as levels need to be matched to 0.1 dB is one of many considerations. Another point is the interesting research by James JJ Johnston that indicates our short term hearing memory is accurate for about 1/4 a second. Hence the requirement to be able to switch reasonably rapidly between sources.

 

Finally, if the bits are identical, as the results show, and that anyone can replicate (anyone up for the challenge?), at the DAC whether it came from JRMC on the Mac or Windows, then how can there be an audible difference? It can't be from the music players...

 

I am looking for a listening/measuring test, which is repeatable and can be replicated by anyone, like I did with the tests above, which demonstrates an audible difference that anyone can hear. Let me know what you think that test might look like...

[mitchco]

At the bottom of this post: Computer Audiophile - Guide to Converting Analog Vinyl To Digital Files Using Windows I prepared a subjective listening test:

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"Do you feel you can hear the difference between the LP and CD rips? Do you think you can pick which one is which? I have to stack the deck a little, as starting out from dead silence would be too easy. But once the music masks the noise floor, who knows…

 

I picked the last 60 seconds of the recording starting with the bass drum ramp up and finale of the three transient hits of the bass drum. I lined up the tracks timing and matched the levels as best as possible. The vinyl rip and CDROM version alternate every 15 seconds. Meaning for the first 15 seconds, you are listening to either the vinyl or CD rip, then it switches to the other rip, every 15 seconds, swap. In fact, you will hear the digital edits for the first couple of 15 second transitions. You have a 50/50 chance on getting whether I started with the vinyl rip or the CDROM rip. You could open the file in a Digital Audio editor, but that is no guarantee to figure out which is which either. There are a few telltale signs, but the point of the exercise is to use your ears Luke and have some fun.

 

24/441 Which is which (18MB WAV)

 

Does the recording start with the vinyl rip or CDROM rip?"

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It seems many in this thread, with highly resolving systems and trained ears, should easily hear the difference between a vinyl rip and CD rip of the same master. Even when I heavy handed the declick and decrackle DSP on a less than stellar vinyl disc, this should make it even easier.

 

A 50/50 chance is better odds than Vegas, so to really test those ears, lets hear some subjective terms on which one is which and why. My turn to call bullshit :-)

[mitchco]

mitch, can you respond to my simple request to do the same test with other software on the same platform? for example, itunes vs jrmc.

 

Do let me know if this isn't feasible for some reason..

 

I have the same question I actually have little or no interest in how JRivers compares with JRivers I know I prefer Amarra over Pure Music, on my system with my DAC, but I would love to see the Mac playback systems compared. And, I have to say it, I think ears are valid evaluation tools in addition to measurements.

 

Best

 

Rick

 

And I appreciate your working your ass off even it if wasn't what I was looking for...

 

Hi Quest and rom661. Sure, I would be happy to run both listening and difference tests of other digital music players if there is enough interest.

 

One way to see if there is interest is to start a poll and list which music players people would like to see compared.

 

I agree ears are valid evaluation tools and I don't think I have said otherwise.

 

As far as measurements go, I believe difference testing is a powerful technique. If interested, have a read of Sonic Signatures: The Art and the Science

[mitchco]

Mitch,

 

Great piece of work!

Not intending to participate in the objectivists vs subjectivists debate, I am interested in the question if human hearing as an instrument can (out)perform some of you measuring methods & tools used.....

 

Instead of trying to comprehend (or debate) if and/or why the human hearing should be able to discriminate what we cannot measure, have you checked your methods being able to measure what you CAN hear? If you make a change in your system (preferrebly in the digital domain, say a DSP setting, oversampling rate, whatever..) that you find subtle, but able to hear, will your test method also measure a difference...?

 

Hans

 

Hi Hans, thanks. And thank you for your thoughtful questions. Yes, I have checked the differencing measurement technique to what I can and cannot hear. I did this for amplitude (i.e. adding digital eq), bit-depth reduction, and sample rate conversion. The results of these digital audio audibility tests and corresponding measurements will be posted soon.

 

Cheers, Mitch

[mitchco]

Mitch--

 

Not to rush you, but any updates?

 

jay, you can find the results here: Computer Audiophile - Fun With Digital Audio – Bit Perfect Audibility Testing

[mitchco]

This test is flawed, you just route the digital stream out and back and save it in the software, the software recorder does not care about jitter, but in actual DA process, where the analog sound is actually forming, does.

 

A better test would be recording the actual analog output with a high res recorder.

 

No, the test is not flawed. Please re-read carefully the section, "Test Configuration and Recording Process".

 

Recording the actual analog output would bring the converter's digital to analog conversion and analog output section into the test loop. That was not the purpose of this article.