Article: JRiver Mac vs JRiver Windows Sound Quality Comparison

[Paul R]

(grin)

 

But what did it *sound* like when you *listened* to it?

 

-Paul

 

(I just could not resist. )

 

Actually, I was just being a smart tail above, but it does occur to me, that what would be an even more useful comparison is say, A+ to JRMC on the Mac, then A+ to JRMC under Windows. Turning on all the recommended options of course, except for for upsampling.

 

-Paul

 

[Paul R]

I agree with you Steve, using a late 2012 Mac Mini and Windows 7 Ultimate. The Mac sounds quite different to me, as does A+ and Amarra. Using the exact same hardware, cables, speakers, and even the same disks formatted to NTFS. But I don't argue with Mitch's measurements, as I am sure they too are real and accurate.

 

So it makes the whole thing a terribly touchy subject, as people, perhaps on both sides of the issue, will demand that they are right and have a lock on the truth. Time to go listen to some cool music. JRMC also has just published a new version with more stuff working in it, including media network that allows using JRemote.

 

-Paul

 

 

Yesterday I loaded Windows 8 Pro with Boot Camp on my Early 2011 MacBook Pro. I installed the driver for the MSB Tech Analog DAC and used JRiver 18 to play back files from a Thunderbolt G-RAID drive.

 

Folks, JRiver in Windows 8 does not sound the same as JRiver for OSX 10.83 with the same hardware.

 

I know this is an impossible finding, but it has been confirmed by Lucy.

[Paul R]

No, you are right. That was impolite of me. Sorry Merc.

-Paul

 

 

Who is Steve - well I assume Mercman but can I make a plee than unless people sign their name on their threads that you (meaning the wider audience not specifically aimed at Paul) use their signon name not the name that you may know is their real name but others don't... Much easier to follow that way.

 

Thanks

Eloise

[Paul R]

No, I think you are mixing up the installation and the running. Apple computers use an EFI boot bios, not well supported by Windows. There is a EFI boot loader that starts the windows Boot process, but that's it.

 

Most of the "drivers" Apple provides are simply to enable all the hardware in each computer. Ethernet drivers, video drivers, sound drivers, etc. Nothing at all different from what any other PC provider, IBM, Dell, HP. Samsung, etc. provide.

 

The Apple "specific" drivers are a control panel that allows you to select the boot drive, and a driver that allows you to read HFS partitions. Nothing more. And Windows runs fine without them installed.

 

-Paul

 

 

Well that's interesting. I was under the distinct impression that Apple provides drivers for installation of Windows versions on its platform. Though it may be quite possible, for instance, to install Windows 8 without recourse to Apple's own drivers, it's not a wise, or possibly, supported environment.

 

Not an official source but: No support? No problem! Installing Windows 8 on a Mac with Boot Camp | Ars Technica

 

And then there's Apple support itself: Boot Camp: Frequently asked questions about installing Windows 8

 

So, although I don't disagree that Boot Camp is a switch, it seems to rely on having a uniquely capable Windows OS for a full working environment -- and one that Apple supports. This is as I'd expect.

[Paul R]

Hi Chris- the conclusion I read in the article was that JRMC sounds exactly the same under MacOS and under Windows. Implied was anyone hearing any difference was just imagining it, with proof of that being the test results and explained by the reference material quoted.

 

Many folks disagree with that conclusion, and the implications implied, including me. But I am sure just as many agree with them. This is a very tricky subject, with a history going back to "all amps that measure the same sound the same" type thinking.

 

In the meantime, enjoy the same JRiver Media Center sound quality whether on PC or Mac.

 

Paul

 

 

Hi Gordon - Every version of this article was run by Matt at JRiver before publication to make sure the company had no issues with Mitch's methods and use of an Alpha version of JRMC.

 

We have to use the testing methodology available to us not the methodology we wish we're invented. I completely get what you're saying but this article simply provides a limited set of facts readers can use or set aside.

 

The article is just a snippet of objective information not meant to be the final answer on anything.

[Paul R]

I thought Mitch was quite clear that he could not hear any differences when he listened in the article? That's why this is totally un-arguable, even though one may disagree. Mitch both measured to the best of not insignificant ability, and then listened.

 

That he heard no difference at all is startling to me, but not arguable. He heard what he heard.

 

I can see where it is a bit on the edge, but I don't see anyone sneering at him, calling him names, or casting aspersions on his character, which happens more often than not in the reverse scenario. Mostly I see people complimenting him on doing a good job.

 

I can see the point you are making though. Slippery slope stuff.

 

 

-Paul

 

 

Sorry I misunderstood "shift" I assumed (wrongly) you were saying something about gearboxes (I believe American's refer to a manual gearbox as a stick shift?). Please ignore my comments about the engine though car analogies usually seam very limited to me and virtually pointless.

 

I'm sorry you feel I was belittling you; I do agree there is a big "ahh yes but" in Mitch's testing; but at the end of the day it appears like you (and several others) were getting away with "yes but how does it sound" type comments when "ahh but how does it measure" comments are ridiculed and put down on threads that start with purely subjective observations.

 

Eloise

[Paul R]

Had to go back and re-read the article, and yes, you are correct. So we can say that the recorded output from the Mac and the PC, when played back on the PC, sounded the same.

 

Not the most reasonable test for saying that the two systems, JRMC on Windows and JRMC on Mac sound the same. Definitely some compelling evidence that they put out the same digital data when recorded though.

 

-Paul

 

 

Paul, he only listened (subjectively) to both recordings on one platform, through foobar ABX (which only runs on Windows). If I'm wrong here, then delete all my Mitch questions and Audio_elf arguments. Sorry.

[Paul R]

I'm sorry, but I just cannot see the same value you do with listening to identical files on the same hardware and OS.

[Paul R]

Now see - I have not heard a C.A.P.S. v3, but I find that a Mac running MacOS totally sounds much better than a CAPS v1 or CAPS v2 server, which I have heard. Obviously on different hardware.

 

I'm also one of those folks who imagines they hear quite a notable difference between JRMC/Windows and JRMC/MacOS on the same hardware.

 

-Paul

 

 

If Amarra ran natively on Windows you could at least have some assurance that the players could be tested on the same hardware with the same drivers and software layers. Today the closest you can come is using Boot Camp on a Mac. However, a CAPS3 PC just kills the Mac on overally sonic performance running Win8 / JRMC. At least that's been my experience, so far. But I've yet to get my hands on the very latest Mac technology.

[Paul R]

Actually, I meant it more to say that people choose different things to like "the best" than to cast any aspersions on one platform or the other.

 

I agree with you that the higher the quality of the PC, the higher the quality - at least potentially - of the music it can put out. The SoTA card makes a whopping big difference to me.

 

-Paul

 

 

Well, I've only compared the CAPS3 Lagoon JRMC 18 vs. a Mac Mini that's a few generations older (last of the taller ones). I can only attribute this to the SotM USB adapter as the key hardware difference, but there may be many other factors both hardware and software that affect the result. It's been more than enough for me to pull my SSD drive from the Mini and use it to build a new HTPC, again on a Windows base for XBMC / AMD / Radeon platform.