Article: JRiver Mac vs JRiver Windows Sound Quality Comparison

[Audio_ELF]

One question... I assume that the loop-back on the hilo is done using digital connection right?

 

If so, I noticing you dismiss the minute difference saying...

Note the microscopic signal that is -144 dB at 48 kHz. I do have dither turned off as per Audacity’s recommendation for export. However, reading over their lengthy description, there appears to be opportunity for inaccuracies. Additionally, looking at Audacity’s bit-depth recommendations, I should have left the default recording quality at 32-bit float and not 24 bit as -144dB is the theoretical signal to noise limit for a 24-bit digital media file. In the end, it is a moot point as -144 dB is below our absolute threshold of hearing. What does this mean? The Audacity difference test indicates that any sound quality difference between JRiver Mac and JRiver Windows is inaudible. Even if the measured difference was considerably more, say -120 dB, it may be barely audible, with headphones on, with the volume at maximum, and in a very quiet environment. However, it would be completely masked at regular program levels (e.g. -3 dBFS). If one wants to try to determine his/her ability to hear masking, try Ethan Winer’s, Artifact Audibility Comparisons.

 

Could it be that even at the minute levels that these differences are at, they can affect the Digital to Analogue conversion in a way that will be audible? By removing the DAC from the system you have eliminated this.

 

I'm only putting forward a hypothosis here (in an attempt to explain why people may hear differences which measure as inaudible) ... but there could be an effect similar to the "butterfly flapping its wings..."?

 

Eloise

[Audio_ELF]

Good point Ted.

Good point? Well the only "point" I see is that Ted feels a subjective view tramples all over the objective evidence presented.

 

I'm sorry but when people post subjective opinions that tweak x improves a system; and someone says well all objective evidence points that the difference is impossible they are told they are acting impolitely. So I call Ted's post equally impolite.

 

Eloise

[Audio_ELF]

Eloise, I am dumbfounded how you see my post as impolite?? I take that personally. I must have completely miscommunicated!! Mitchco did an amazing job of comparing recorded music from both systems, and explaining and diagramming not only his efforts but also his workflow and logic. They are clearly both bit perfect. But do they sound the same on different systems? Maybe I am misinterpreting the experiment, but it seems he's ABX'ing via Foobar, which doesn't run on both systems, it only compares two tracks recorded on both systems..so I simply wanted to know...via one's ears. I'm sorry this question, as legit as I can make it, seems somehow impolite...

But this thread wasn't about "how it sounds" it was about how they measure.

 

Perhaps to say it's impolite is a little far from the mark - but your comments were as wide of the mark (IMO) as when people take offence at someone asking "did you blind test this?" in (for example) a thread on how two USB cables sound different. Both types of thread are valid and Chris encourages both...

 

Eloise

[Audio_ELF]

I agree with you Steve

Who is Steve - well I assume Mercman but can I make a plee than unless people sign their name on their threads that you (meaning the wider audience not specifically aimed at Paul) use their signon name not the name that you may know is their real name but others don't... Much easier to follow that way.

 

Thanks

Eloise

[Audio_ELF]

Even running Windows on a Mac will be different as the ultimate control of Windows on a Mac is dependent on how Boot Camp or any layer affects the outcome. I don't know much about how virtual software, like Parallels or VMware interact with MacOS, but I suspect that's fraught with even more questions.

Just to clarify, BootCamp isn't really a "layer", it's just a utility to enable the Apple hardware boot an OS that isn't Mac OS X. Once booted there are no more "layers" than running Windows on any other hardware.

 

Parallels / VMWare / etc on the other hand do put another layer between the OS and the hardware...

 

Eloise

[Audio_ELF]

The darn (polite enough?) title says "sound quality comparison"! Why are you making my comments out to be some sort of whacked left field perspective? I am not alone here. I am not questioning his efforts or techniques (in fact they are models for other articles), just asking the follow-up..how did they sound on the two platforms!!!

 

I could take two Chevy Cleveland 500 engines, built in different shifts for different car mfgers, and put them on a test bench and measure that they have the same horsepower, torque, etc...but I'd think they would perform quite differently if dropped into say, a Corvette vs a Mack truck. That's all I'm asking.

Oh well... you can think that if you like...

 

To me the article was clearly an objective view (i.e. based on measurements only); yet it's okay for the subjectives to come in and say thats rubbish. Yet if an objective view is posted on a subjective thread then the objective person is belittled and called disruptive (or similar). Perhaps to Mitchco (and I don't want to put words into his mouth) they do sound the same as the measurments would indicate...

 

I thought the rules were meant to work both ways but obviously not!

 

As for the stupid automotive analogies - they wouldn't measure the same with different shifts...

 

Eloise

[Audio_ELF]

Sorry I misunderstood "shift" I assumed (wrongly) you were saying something about gearboxes (I believe American's refer to a manual gearbox as a stick shift?). Please ignore my comments about the engine though car analogies usually seam very limited to me and virtually pointless.

 

I'm sorry you feel I was belittling you; I do agree there is a big "ahh yes but" in Mitch's testing; but at the end of the day it appears like you (and several others) were getting away with "yes but how does it sound" type comments when "ahh but how does it measure" comments are ridiculed and put down on threads that start with purely subjective observations.

 

Eloise