nige2000 Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Mqn uses the prefetch command which the modern chips are supposed to have a poor implementation of, they prefer to use hardware prefetch, so wonder if that is why you're hearing sibilance. should look to use an alternative to software prefetch i thought were were making the most of the newer intel processors? Link to comment
sbgk Posted September 28, 2013 Author Share Posted September 28, 2013 i thought were were making the most of the newer intel processors? until I get one it's difficult to judge the effect of a particular instruction, so I guess MQn is optimised for a 2010 i3 330M. There is no harm in doubt and skepticism, for it is through these that new discoveries are made. Richard P Feynman http://mqnplayer.blogspot.co.uk/ Link to comment
adolfo.a.aguiar Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 I have installed AudioPhil's WS 2012 optimizations and recommend it to MQn users. It's not possible to run in Core mode because there is no WASAPI support but you can do it in the minimal server mode. I noticed the music gets more dynamic, bass more controlled and tuneful and more details (less noise). Since sbgk is pursuing a live sound, the optimizer would give a valuable contribution in this direction. So far, the only issue is that you can't stop a song with x because a required service is stopped by the optimizer. I will contact AudioPhil to identify the missing service. Link to comment
adolfo.a.aguiar Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 I have installed AudioPhil's WS 2012 optimizations and recommend it to MQn users.It's not possible to run in Core mode because there is no WASAPI support but you can do it in the minimal server mode. I noticed the music gets more dynamic, bass more controlled and tuneful and more details (less noise). Since sbgk is pursuing a live sound, the optimizer would give a valuable contribution in this direction. So far, the only issue is that you can't stop a song with x because a required service is stopped by the optimizer. I will contact AudioPhil to identify the missing service. sbgk, You might be able to help me identify the missing service. When I start MQn, the following message appears in the window: "ERROR: The service cannot be started, either because it is disabled or because it has no enabled devices associated with it". Then, music plays normally and the same message appears if I type "x" to stop. Thanks. Link to comment
nige2000 Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 until I get one it's difficult to judge the effect of a particular instruction, so I guess MQn is optimised for a 2010 i3 330M. Get a i3 4130 then it will be optimised for me!!!!! No idea how you got this far with a laptop more with less aint a bad thing i suppose JC got 6 6 6 11 working well had to raise cpu from 800mhz to 1.6ghz seemed to solve it and sounds good better detail and timing this way Any idea why raising cpu frequency fixed it? adolfo.a.aguiar have you tried WS R2 with firewall and security disabled in minimal server mode its probably the better at the minute until audiophil has R2 support of course Link to comment
sbgk Posted September 28, 2013 Author Share Posted September 28, 2013 sbgk, You might be able to help me identify the missing service. When I start MQn, the following message appears in the window: "ERROR: The service cannot be started, either because it is disabled or because it has no enabled devices associated with it". Then, music plays normally and the same message appears if I type "x" to stop. Thanks. does the affinity change ? maybe the taskkill command, try it from a dos prompt so it allows you to press x, just you get an error ? There is no harm in doubt and skepticism, for it is through these that new discoveries are made. Richard P Feynman http://mqnplayer.blogspot.co.uk/ Link to comment
sbgk Posted September 28, 2013 Author Share Posted September 28, 2013 Get a i3 4130then it will be optimised for me!!!!! No idea how you got this far with a laptop more with less aint a bad thing i suppose JC got 6 6 6 11 working well had to raise cpu from 800mhz to 1.6ghz seemed to solve it and sounds good better detail and timing this way Any idea why raising cpu frequency fixed it? adolfo.a.aguiar have you tried WS R2 with firewall and security disabled in minimal server mode its probably the better at the minute until audiophil has R2 support of course as long as I am hearing differences between the different versions then a laptop is fine not to mention my £12 5 m usb cable, bits are bits, don't you know. No point polishing a turd ie if the player ain't right then that should be the priority. was looking at a lenovo haswell laptop today, slightly tempted. uploaded 4 x 2.52 versions that have movaps or movdqa instruction and software or hardware prefetch these are sse2 versions, now notice the sibilance in 2.52 sse4 intel v2, also changed the alignment to 8 throughout, 8 16 4 (which 2.52 sse4 intel v2 has) just sounds a bit unbalanced. interesting reading if you are into that sort of thing https://code.google.com/p/dynamorio/issues/detail?id=438 There is no harm in doubt and skepticism, for it is through these that new discoveries are made. Richard P Feynman http://mqnplayer.blogspot.co.uk/ Link to comment
cvrle59 Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Are you planning to get around special characters in file/folder name in your "final" version, or we should change them somehow to fit into English alphabet? Let's say folder like "Café Blue" is refused by MQn. I think this limit comes from old DOS system, as far as I can understand it. Thanks for all the effort you are putting into this project. The results are amazing! Link to comment
adolfo.a.aguiar Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 does the affinity change ? maybe the taskkill command, try it from a dos prompt so it allows you to press x, just you get an error ? I have an Atom 2 cores. mqnplay is running in core 1 and everything else in core 0. I'm using the Task Manager to stop mqnplay. Yes, I'm allowed to press x, then I get the error message and the music doesn't stop. Link to comment
sbgk Posted September 28, 2013 Author Share Posted September 28, 2013 Are you planning to get around special characters in file/folder name in your "final" version, or we should change them somehow to fit into English alphabet? Let's say folder like "Café Blue" is refused by MQn. I think this limit comes from old DOS system, as far as I can understand it.Thanks for all the effort you are putting into this project. The results are amazing! it's probably an easy fix, I just haven't found it yet, so just skip the files that don't play or copy and rename them if you must listen to them, that's what I do. The issue is to do with the fact I write the filenames out to a text file and it is there that the names get mangled. There is no harm in doubt and skepticism, for it is through these that new discoveries are made. Richard P Feynman http://mqnplayer.blogspot.co.uk/ Link to comment
sbgk Posted September 28, 2013 Author Share Posted September 28, 2013 I have an Atom 2 cores. mqnplay is running in core 1 and everything else in core 0.I'm using the Task Manager to stop mqnplay. Yes, I'm allowed to press x, then I get the error message and the music doesn't stop. create a batch file with a kill instruction for mqnplay and mqncontrol. have you tried the atom versions, apparently they sound better on atoms (they are compiled for atom) There is no harm in doubt and skepticism, for it is through these that new discoveries are made. Richard P Feynman http://mqnplayer.blogspot.co.uk/ Link to comment
goon-heaven Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 .. or edit your own File.txt then enter from a cmd prompt: mqncontrol --file "File.txt" - will that allow special characters? Link to comment
sbgk Posted September 28, 2013 Author Share Posted September 28, 2013 uploaded 2.52 nt nt 8 16 4 wc no prefetch, back to sse4 streaming load/write, this version without prefetch shows promise of the other 2.52s the 2.52 movdqa align 8 sw prefetch intel sounded best to me. have uploaded an atom version of it and the hw version There is no harm in doubt and skepticism, for it is through these that new discoveries are made. Richard P Feynman http://mqnplayer.blogspot.co.uk/ Link to comment
sbgk Posted September 29, 2013 Author Share Posted September 29, 2013 uploaded 2.52 nt nt 8 16 4 wc no prefetch, back to sse4 streaming load/write, this version without prefetch shows promise Uploaded 2.53 sse4 intel 8 16 16 4 no tlb This version is on a different level, when I optimise MQn post build there is usually a crackle in the sound because I am running it on a laptop using a dac version ( to do with the release points ie building a 2.x version on a 1.x device), anyway, this version is the quietest version in terms of crackle that I have ever heard. So I wondered will this lack of crackle during build optimisation translate to improved SQ ? Sure enough, it is the most ~ well words are not going to do it justice, you'll just have to hear it. Nige said a couple of versions back that he hadn't heard some of the sounds he was hearing before, well multiply that by 10, this version is sensational *. * Users may find their own experience differs from that of the author, no improvement in SQ is implied or guaranteed Speaking of which, have added a GNU General Public License to the http://mqnplayer.blogspot.co.uk/ which covers the use of MQn. Unfortunately this improvement in SQ is only available to sse4, I can try and get close with sse2, but it won't be as good as sse4. There is no harm in doubt and skepticism, for it is through these that new discoveries are made. Richard P Feynman http://mqnplayer.blogspot.co.uk/ Link to comment
nzitr Posted September 29, 2013 Share Posted September 29, 2013 Uploaded 2.53 sse4 intel 8 16 16 4 no tlb This version is sounding great to me. I came across MQn about a week ago and I was immediately taken by the vocals but found that the noise levels and soundstage were still in need of some development. Roll time on a week and I can't quite believe the rate of improvement that has taken place, it really is quite amazing. I am still finding that the channels are swapped Left to Right though. I have done a lot of testing with other players and output modes to see if it is some sort of setup issue on my part but can't see any issues. Regards Link to comment
jesuscheung Posted September 29, 2013 Share Posted September 29, 2013 JC got 6 6 6 11 working well had to raise cpu from 800mhz to 1.6ghz seemed to solve it and sounds good better detail and timing this way Any idea why raising cpu frequency fixed it? adolfo.a.aguiar have you tried WS R2 with firewall and security disabled in minimal server mode its probably the better at the minute until audiophil has R2 support of course sbgk showed me an intel article a long time ago, saying CPU frequency should be x2 (some multiples of) of RAM frequency. CPU 1.6Ghz+RAM 800MHz is therefore a magic match. 2.4+800 > 4.0+800 > 4.0+2000 > 4.8+800 am using R2 in minimal server mode. disable tones of thing. no firewall etc... sounds great except i have a layer of control in sound. think it is driver issues. Link to comment
jesuscheung Posted September 29, 2013 Share Posted September 29, 2013 Uploaded 2.53 sse4 intel 8 16 16 4 no tlb This version is on a different level, when I optimise MQn post build there is usually a crackle in the sound because I am running it on a laptop using a dac version ( to do with the release points ie building a 2.x version on a 1.x device)... 2.53 sse4 intel 8 16 16 4 no tlb -most clean/airy. -very(most) revealing with fast/short/sudden/highFrequency/complex sounds with a little side-effect of ear discomfort. -prefer the fuller finishing of each note of rax no zi. -vocal is very good, not completely better than rax no zi and vars versa. -tune is light in bass? Link to comment
sbgk Posted September 29, 2013 Author Share Posted September 29, 2013 This version is sounding great to me. I came across MQn about a week ago and I was immediately taken by the vocals but found that the noise levels and soundstage were still in need of some development. Roll time on a week and I can't quite believe the rate of improvement that has taken place, it really is quite amazing. I am still finding that the channels are swapped Left to Right though. I have done a lot of testing with other players and output modes to see if it is some sort of setup issue on my part but can't see any issues. Regards difficult to see that MQn is doing anything that would cause that, no one else has reported it. Have you confirmed it with a test tone that plays to each speaker in turn ? There is no harm in doubt and skepticism, for it is through these that new discoveries are made. Richard P Feynman http://mqnplayer.blogspot.co.uk/ Link to comment
sbgk Posted September 29, 2013 Author Share Posted September 29, 2013 Are you planning to get around special characters in file/folder name in your "final" version, or we should change them somehow to fit into English alphabet? Let's say folder like "Café Blue" is refused by MQn. I think this limit comes from old DOS system, as far as I can understand it.Thanks for all the effort you are putting into this project. The results are amazing! in MQn.bat file insert the following 2 lines above the paste > param.txt line FOR /F "tokens=*" %%A IN ('CHCP') DO FOR %%B IN (%%~A) DO SET CodePage=%%B chcp 65001 and insert the following line above the set TIMESTAMP=%TIME:~0,2%:%TIME:~3,2%:%TIME:~6,2% line CHCP %CodePage% doesn't display the unicode character properly, but it does play the file ok There is no harm in doubt and skepticism, for it is through these that new discoveries are made. Richard P Feynman http://mqnplayer.blogspot.co.uk/ Link to comment
nzitr Posted September 29, 2013 Share Posted September 29, 2013 difficult to see that MQn is doing anything that would cause that, no one else has reported it. Have you confirmed it with a test tone that plays to each speaker in turn ? Firstly I checked the Windows 8 sound properties and that shows the channel mapping as correct. I then searched online and found a stereo test download available from this site: Mixing Secrets For The Small Studio: Additional Resources (Cambridge Music Technology) ..this file is really loud so keep the volume low! I used the Ex1.02 WAV file (44.1/16bit) to test MQn and JPLAY/MC19 and they were all fine. ..some head scratching at that point. Most of my library are AIF files apart from my recent HD Tracks which are WAV so most of my MQn test tracks are 96/24 or higher. I checked a 44.1/16 HD Tracks sourced WAV file and it was fine however all the 96/24 ones were reversed in MQn compared to my other players. I then converted the Ex1.02 WAV file from above to 96/24 using DBpoweramp V14.4.0.3 and then retested.The result via MQn was reversed channels compared to the 44.1/16 version with the other players being ok. I then did a test converting to 192/24 and the result was the same as the 96/24 file. I then converted an HD Tracks 96/24 WAV file to 44.1/16 and tested it with MQn. The channels swapped compared to the 96/24 version. I would be interested to see how the same test works out for you. Let me know if you need any further info. Regards Link to comment
sbgk Posted September 29, 2013 Author Share Posted September 29, 2013 Firstly I checked the Windows 8 sound properties and that shows the channel mapping as correct. I then searched online and found a stereo test download available from this site: Mixing Secrets For The Small Studio: Additional Resources (Cambridge Music Technology) ..this file is really loud so keep the volume low! I used the Ex1.02 WAV file (44.1/16bit) to test MQn and JPLAY/MC19 and they were all fine. ..some head scratching at that point. Most of my library are AIF files apart from my recent HD Tracks which are WAV so most of my MQn test tracks are 96/24 or higher. I checked a 44.1/16 HD Tracks sourced WAV file and it was fine however all the 96/24 ones were reversed in MQn compared to my other players. I then converted the Ex1.02 WAV file from above to 96/24 using DBpoweramp V14.4.0.3 and then retested.The result via MQn was reversed channels compared to the 44.1/16 version with the other players being ok. I then did a test converting to 192/24 and the result was the same as the 96/24 file. I then converted an HD Tracks 96/24 WAV file to 44.1/16 and tested it with MQn. The channels swapped compared to the 96/24 version. I would be interested to see how the same test works out for you. Let me know if you need any further info. Regards ok, shall try to reproduce your findings There is no harm in doubt and skepticism, for it is through these that new discoveries are made. Richard P Feynman http://mqnplayer.blogspot.co.uk/ Link to comment
sbgk Posted September 29, 2013 Author Share Posted September 29, 2013 2.53 sse4 intel 8 16 16 4 no tlb-most clean/airy. -very(most) revealing with fast/short/sudden/highFrequency/complex sounds with a little side-effect of ear discomfort. -prefer the fuller finishing of each note of rax no zi. -vocal is very good, not completely better than rax no zi and vars versa. -tune is light in bass? Uploaded 2.53 sse4 intel eac which uses the eac counter instead of rax, takes it down to normal highs and lows also passes the crackling low noise test. This version is good enough, I'll build a 1.x and 3.x version of it later. Don't even know if it is worth spending any more time trying to put the complete render loop in assembly, this version is so good. Uploaded MQn.bat which allows files with unicode characters in their names to play, although the characters are not displayed correctly, it's good enough for now. Am playing my William Carter - Fernando Sor Late works at the moment which I haven't been able to do before. There is no harm in doubt and skepticism, for it is through these that new discoveries are made. Richard P Feynman http://mqnplayer.blogspot.co.uk/ Link to comment
taggart Posted September 29, 2013 Share Posted September 29, 2013 Haven't read already this thread completely, but until now I could't find a solution for the following problem: - MQn is playing sound, but when trying to use the commands (eg. spacebar) mqnplay.exe terminates with an error (appcrash). - I've tried Win8, Win81, WinServer2012R1, was all the same - I've tried almost all different versions of mqnplay Does anybody have an idea what is wrong here? Christoph Link to comment
LowOrbit Posted September 29, 2013 Share Posted September 29, 2013 Haven't read already this thread completely, but until now I could't find a solution for the following problem:- MQn is playing sound, but when trying to use the commands (eg. spacebar) mqnplay.exe terminates with an error (appcrash). - I've tried Win8, Win81, WinServer2012R1, was all the same - I've tried almost all different versions of mqnplay Does anybody have an idea what is wrong here? Christoph Hi Christoph I think sgbk has removed the control key functionality as it was interfering with sound quality. You CAN use the X key to terminate a session tidily, but I think that's about it. Mark Link to comment
LowOrbit Posted September 29, 2013 Share Posted September 29, 2013 2.53 - Everything promised delivers in this version. It opens the window and still sounds the most musically coherent version to me. I am running on W8 in a Windows 7 shell, which I think is a bit cleaner also but was running this for previous versions also, so the improvement is down to the player code. This is a strong step forward. Thanks for making it available. Link to comment
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