15 USB/SPDIF converters shootout

[Elberoth]

10Hz is still pretty high. A lot of incoming source jitter will pass.

[ar-t]

No, I'm not talking about old USB interfaces, I'm talking about the little PHY transceivers which go before even the new processors (though now the XMOS U-series even has the PHY built in). Typical items like http://www.smsc.com/Downloads/SMSC/Downloads_Public/Data_Briefs/3320db.pdf

 

PLLs are really hard to get away from. Though maybe those in the PHYs are not relevant.

 

Did you read the data sheet? It says you can use the internal PLL. It also says it can use "internal oscillator operation..............requires external oscillator or crystal."

 

Oy vey............some of you guys just have to get the last word in.

[ar-t]

10Hz is still pretty high. A lot of incoming source jitter will pass.

 

I think you are talking to a wall. Seems obvious to me this poster just likes to argue, for the sake of arguing.

 

I'm out of here. Why these forums always have one or two guys, who love to argue, and get the last word in, is a reason why some folks from industry won't participate. I actually have work to do, and debating people who don't know when to stop is not a productive use of my time.

 

Enjoy!

 

And please, all my buddies.............stop sending me links to debates like this.

[Boris75]

Again, looking at HFN results, just two examples.

 

Benchmark HGC2:

S/PDIF jitter 11 ps

USB jitter 28 ps

 

 

Thanks for this reference to this HFN test database, which is fascinating. I must say that I am quite surprised by the results for the DAC2 as, to me, the USB input sounds (slightly) more detailed than the SPDIF input fuelled by an Audiophilleo AP2. Interesting. Perhaps a difference of 20ps vs 10ps of jitter cannot be heard. Also, I noticed that the THD readings of the DAC2 are lower on the SPDIF input than on the USB input. But again they are so low that perhaps they are not audible anyway so that the difference does not matter, at least on my system. But in that case I should not have heard a difference between the SPDIF and USB inputs. When the DAC2 is used with the SPDIF input, the output level is somewhat higher (about 1dB on my system - I was too lazy to check voltages) than with the USB input. In principle this should not bias measurements, but who knows?

[Boris75]

This HFN database offers some gems: for a car-priced DAC that shall remain nameless, according to the measurements in this database, what you get is distorsion and jitter well in excess of those observed for mid-fi equipment.

[firedog]

This HFN database offers some gems: for a car-priced DAC that shall remain nameless, according to the measurements in this database, what you get is distorsion and jitter well in excess of those observed for mid-fi equipment.

 

But it might be euphonic sounding distortion and jitter, and sound very good when actually listened to...

[bajnokpityu]

Has anyone tried the Human Audio Tabla converter?

 

Tabla - USB Interface for HD Audio - Human Audio

 

Interested in particular as to comparisions between the Tabla and the Berkley Audio USB converter.

 

I own a Tabla, but in Hungary I cannot try Berkley converter. Very few people uses here USB in good hifi. I could hear only Stello U2. But I think the software is as important as the converter.

[junker]

How far are you from Zagreb?

 

CROATIA

Acquisitum Magnum d..

Zagreb, Croatia

Phone: + 385 99 70 77 555

http://sonetimage.adm.hr

 

Has anyone tried the Human Audio Tabla converter?

 

Tabla - USB Interface for HD Audio - Human Audio

 

Interested in particular as to comparisions between the Tabla and the Berkley Audio USB converter.

 

I own a Tabla, but in Hungary I cannot try Berkley converter. Very few people uses here USB in good hifi. I could hear only Stello U2. But I think the software is as important as the converter.

[bajnokpityu]

How far are you from Zagreb?

 

Kiindulás: Zágráb, Horvátország Cél: Diósd - Google Térkép

336km, 3hours

[Boris75]

But it might be euphonic sounding distortion and jitter, and sound very good when actually listened to...

 

Indeed the French magazine Stereo Image Prestige in a recent issue showered the very same DAC (which retails for more than €20,000) with praise, while two issues later they said the Benchmark DAC2, which measures much better on all counts, was "far from audiophile neutrality" and had "a distinct sonic signature". I guess having high linearity, low jitter and low THD are what they call a "sonic signature".

[Miska]

10Hz is still pretty high. A lot of incoming source jitter will pass.

 

You can make it 0.1 Hz or some other arbitrary number, anyway below audible frequencies. Especially crystals tend to have higher jitter in this subsonic range due to long-term thermal fluctuations. It is very hard to keep the crystal temperature stable within 5.96e-8 K for long periods of time.

 

You can get these easy to use high integration OK'ish clock synths for cheap ($10 or so), but you can do much better with custom design and some $200.

Ultra-Low Jitter - Products - TI.com

[Darren Steven]

I've just come across this thread, and found the OP interesting, but I don't understand the technology apparently. I have a simple question:

 

At what point in the signal chain does it become impossible to reconstruct the original file on the disk (or the material contents of it), and why?

[Swansong]

Just broke in the new JK Ciunas converter that replaced the Mk 3 and it sounds good. Cant compare it to the older one reviewed in the shoot-out that ranked highly but others have said it is much better so it should be even closer or equal to most talked about in this thread.

[Darren Steven]

I

At what point in the signal chain does it become impossible to reconstruct the original file on the disk (or the material contents of it), and why?

 

Ok - some homework has helped me answer my own question: Provided the data being transmitted is some form of PCM, (ie not DSD or similar, which is for all intents is an analog signal), at any point in the chain, we can exactly reconstruct the original source data. Jitter (at the bit level) and clock drift does not matter from the perspective of having perfect data reconstruction, provided it's not severe enough that the recovered clock is not in sync with the data.

 

If the DAC has no fifo/buffering (do they? every other data comms system on the planet does), then the only jitter that matters is that in the frame level clock (which tells the DAC that there is a new value to do its stuff with). I can understand how frame clock (sample clock) drift at audio frequencies, of a large enough magnitude would result in audio artifacts, but random, high frequency (+- a few ps) would be really hard to detect in the audio (would be ultrasonic perhaps).

 

Similarly with noise/isolation issues. That needs to be kept out of the DAC/Anaolg side. Unless its really bad (and impacting digital performance), it's the isolation of the DAC inputs that are the critical things, as that's where the noise can actually impact the analog output. Fancy isolation in a digital-digital converter reduces the isolation required at the DAC input, but should not alter audio quality, as the full audio signal data value is correct and present at the DAC input still.

 

Power supply is probably the other noise source. Even with good input isolation at the DAC, noise might make it in from your PC etc, into the DAC (or amp) PSU's.

 

Have I got it right?

[jimbones]

Just broke in the new JK Ciunas converter that replaced the Mk 3 and it sounds good. Cant compare it to the older one reviewed in the shoot-out that ranked highly but others have said it is much better so it should be even closer or equal to most talked about in this thread.

 

I got my JK Ciunas about 2 weeks ago and it sounds very good. But I am only comparing it to the M2 Tech HiFace. The Ciunas is really a very good product

[Boris75]

 

Have I got it right?

 

In my opinion, yes, but be prepared for posts arguing otherwise, for instance claiming that the SATA cable used to transmit the data from the hard drive to the motherboard impacts the sound.

[Swansong]

I got my JK Ciunas about 2 weeks ago and it sounds very good. But I am only comparing it to the M2 Tech HiFace. The Ciunas is really a very good product

 

I am really happy with the sound and lack of digital edginess and fatigue. My system now has a nice smooth analog sound and I'm getting use to reduced top shelf detail or brightness which always seemed artificial. I am now enjoying my music much more rather than analyzing sounds and decay, shimmer, etc, etc. I'm trusting the sound again based on growing up in a Macintosh/JBL (warm/creamy) household and owning very nice (high resolution) vinyl rigs in the 80's-early 90's. I highly recommend the new Ciúnas for those like me that liked hearing uber resolution but could never relax critical listening long enough to return too musical enjoyment. If your a forward, aggressive digital sound fan then this will not be a good fit for you IMO.

[jimbones]

I am really happy with the sound and lack of digital edginess and fatigue. My system now has a nice smooth analog sound and I'm getting use to reduced top shelf detail or brightness which always seemed artificial. I am now enjoying my music much more rather than analyzing sounds and decay, shimmer, etc, etc. I'm trusting the sound again based on growing up in a Macintosh/JBL (warm/creamy) household and owning very nice (high resolution) vinyl rigs in the 80's-early 90's. I highly recommend the new Ciúnas for those like me that liked hearing uber resolution but could never relax critical listening long enough to return too musical enjoyment. If your a forward, aggressive digital sound fan then this will not be a good fit for you IMO.

 

I would agree with your assessment. really loads of detail no edge and just au naturale. I use this as my reference in designing my speakers since I trust it. We could go on and on with adjectives/superlatives but there would be no point.

[Swansong]

I would agree with your assessment. really loads of detail no edge and just au naturale. I use this as my reference in designing my speakers since I trust it. We could go on and on with adjectives/superlatives but there would be no point.

 

+1! What are these hybrid speakers?? Do you have a YouTube channel?

[jimbones]

+1! What are these hybrid speakers?? Do you have a YouTube channel?

 

They are a sealed 10 inch bass, 6 inch OB mid and a front firing tweeter. I don't have a YouTube channel but I may be able to add a link to pictures. i spent 1 year building, designing, redsigning and tweaking and have what I now consider a final version. They are wonderful, at least to my ears. They weren't so great when I first started but had lots of help from other engineers.

[Timothy Hoang]

Anyone know whats the best USB to SPDIF converter to get now for under $500?

 

Currently have iUSB + iLink for my computer setup and thinking about upgrading.

[Andrew_WOT]

Some like AP+PP significantly better (e.g. project86 on head-fi), I personally found the difference between two marginal at best.

PUC2Lite is an interesting one, whoever tried it preferred it over AP. It's AES so if your DAC does not sport that input you need to get conversion cable

2channelaudio: Yellowtec PUC2 Lite (USB to AES/SPDIF Converter)... Comparisons made to the Audiophilleo1 (USB to SPDIF)

 

 

Another review

http://funwithaudio.blogspot.com/2013/01/usb-spdif-wars-audiophileo-vs-yellowtec.html

 

Some shots of internals here

http://www.euphonia-audioforum.se/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t8273.html

 

There is one for sale right now on head-fi

PUC2Lite - Exceptional USB to AES interface (Excellent condition)

 

 

Otherwise you can get it from dale pro audio

http://www.daleproaudio.com/p-20878-yellowtec-yt4240-puc2-lite-usb-audio-interface-aes3-digital-audio-io.aspx

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[barrows]

Anyone know whats the best USB to SPDIF converter to get now for under $500?

 

Currently have iUSB + iLink for my computer setup and thinking about upgrading.

 

 

Audiophileo would be your best bet. Then add the external supply (or one of your own) for a further upgrade.

[Swansong]

T H, love your active rig that's also my preference too. I would suggest JK Ciúnas battery powered converter. If you look at the shootout summary the older model ranked very high and most think the new Ciúnas would equal the 95 + converters at 25-50% of the cost.

[Kelly]

I just compared the Audiophilleo 2 + PP to the Yellowtec Puc2 Lite. I use the ifi iUSB power with the puc2. In short I found the Puc2 lite to be a better converter. The puc2 is AES only but my dac has both AES and coax input so I didn't need any special converters. The puc2 lite meets your price but performs better with a power supply. Since you already have the ifi iUSB power then I think it would be worth a shot.

 

I posted my findings here: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/best-usb-spdif-converter-12904/index11.html#post268813

 

Anyone know whats the best USB to SPDIF converter to get now for under $500?

 

Currently have iUSB + iLink for my computer setup and thinking about upgrading.