First multi-channel DSD playback solution with Mytek!

[bmoura]

Eloise, good question. I assume the magic is the ASIO driver coordinating channel mapping and the clock synch stuff. No other under $5k DSD-capable DAC mfg has stepped up to this idea though (Playback Designs has always touted stacked PDs but with a sort of proprietary link maybe?, at different $$ of course). Funny, the driver is the one they've had on the their site since almost 12 months ago (v1.33.10).

 

I'm not aware of any...so far. We are getting a little intermittent light clicks in the rear channel DAC on only certain occasions, esp in pause mode, but working through it. I don't even have all 3 on the same firmware yet.

 

The Playback Designs DSD DACs and Players sound excellent. But stacking 3 of them would be quite pricey. Probably not practical for most people.

 

The Mytek is priced very reasonably. A stack of three of their Stereo DSD DACs could work quite well. Although I wish they would look at an all-in-one unit like exaSound has done with the e28 - or perhaps like the Professional Mytek 8x192 DSD DAC.

 

Hopefully there will be more choices out there for Multichannel DSD file playback soon. I'm watching for that with interest !

[bmoura]

Ted-

 

Not even interested in 5.1 (don't have the room or the cash), but I love your enthusiasm and readiness to share.

 

That stack of 3 black Myteks looks totally cool.

 

BTW, Michal isn't willing to make you a 5.1 ch prototype DSD DAC as reward for all your help?

 

Hmm, that sounds very appropriate to me.

 

After Ted tests such a future unit, and reviews it, I'm sure some of the rest of us would be interested as well....

[ted_b]

That would be great. Everyone send Michal a note saying he needs to make me a one-box 5.1 DSD DAC.

[SoNic67]

You know that DSD alone doesn't support 5.1? SACD uses lossless compression called DST to achieve that.

[ted_b]

You know that DSD alone doesn't support 5.1? SACD uses lossless compression called DST to achieve that.

 

DST is a compression mechanism, and is not present on all multichannel (but most). Regardless, what is your point? I have hundreds of ripped DSD albums in 5.1 DSF folders (plus several dozen more 3 channels from AP, RCA Living Stereo, etc) that play beautifully in multichannel..both on my Mytek stack and on the exaSound E28 (review I wrote and published on the home page).

[Miska]

You know that DSD alone doesn't support 5.1? SACD uses lossless compression called DST to achieve that.

 

Don't dare to tell that to my software and uncompressed 5.0 and 5.1 channel DSD files! I'm afraid it could stop working!

[SoNic67]

My point is that the existing DSP might not have the needed processing power to decompress that DST in real-time. As for uncompressed DSD, can you send those over USB?

[tailspn]

My point is that the existing DSP might not have the needed processing power to decompress that DST in real-time. As for uncompressed DSD, can you send those over USB?

 

Are you serious, or just trolling? Don't you understand how any of this stuff works?

[Jud]

Are you serious, or just trolling? Don't you understand how any of this stuff works?

 

According to his comments in another thread, he thinks none but the best DACs have a memory buffer for the bitstream,and consequently that one should avoid async USB DACs because they are "real time" and may drop bits. So my own guess as to the answers would be regarding question 1, possibly serious; and regarding question 2, very likely not.

[tailspn]

Well, please excuse my childish outburst. His continuous denigrating of anything connected with DSD occasionally frustrates me. Your's and Jussi's responses are much more even handed.

 

To the DST issue; as Ted explained it is the format for authoring DSD for a SACD production. It may include lossless compression (usually does), and is part of the right's protection. DST has no bearing on a DSD edit master file from which it was made. Also, the DSD edit master is the source for non SACD ripped DSD downloads. DST is decoded to DSD in any SACD compatible player's transport support board, including a PS3. There is an available program however, originally written by Philips, that decodes DST to DSD, but not in realtime. It's used professionally to check SACD authored masters prior to sending them to a stamping plant.

 

The data rate for six channels of serialized DSD data is 16.92Mb/s or 2.115MB/s. USB2 is rated for an effective rate of up to 280Mb/s, or 35MB/s. Sixteen times greater than necessary for 64fs DSD, and eight times greater for 128fs DSD

[mtan002]

I am still unclear as to the setup of this multi-channel feature.

 

From ted's explanation a while ago, he cabled the DACs to the amp on an trial-and-error basis and guessed right based on what he saw on the ASIO panel. My question is how many copies of JRiver do you need? I can see 3 copies of JRiver, each driving a DAC. But is that the case?

[bmoura]

I am still unclear as to the setup of this multi-channel feature.

 

From ted's explanation a while ago, he cabled the DACs to the amp on an trial-and-error basis and guessed right based on what he saw on the ASIO panel. My question is how many copies of JRiver do you need? I can see 3 copies of JRiver, each driving a DAC. But is that the case?

 

As I understand it, Ted used 1 copy of JRiver and 3 linked Mytek Stereo-192 DSD DACs. Ted's review is on page 1 of this thread.

 

Kal Rubinson at Stereophile reviewed the same setup (3 linked Mytek stereo-192 DSD DACs) for 5.1 DSD playback by borrowing 2 Mytek Stereo DACs to go with the one in his system. See his "Music In The Round #61" column at Music in the Round #61 Page 2 | Stereophile.com for that review on the web.

[ted_b]

I am still unclear as to the setup of this multi-channel feature.

 

From ted's explanation a while ago, he cabled the DACs to the amp on an trial-and-error basis and guessed right based on what he saw on the ASIO panel. My question is how many copies of JRiver do you need? I can see 3 copies of JRiver, each driving a DAC. But is that the case?

 

Yes, as Brian says, I used one pc, with one copy of Jriver, and one USB cable. I then connected the USB cable to a USB hub and three USB cables went to the stacked three DACs. It worked great. The "guessing" was quite educated as I detailed earlier...the ASIO driver simply assigns the oldest serial numbered DAC the front channels, the next oldest the center/lfe and the final DAC the surround channels...no guessing involved (serial numbers on bottom of each DAC). When we realized that a word clock synch might produce better results Mytek created a new firmware with word clock synch in the menu. I then used two very short bnc cables from DAC 1 out to DAC2 in and DAC 2 out to DAC3 in. Done. It was the working musical prototype for great things to come.

 

The exaSound E28 is a one-unit design and does not require multiple USB cables, nor synching multiple DACs.

 

Multichannel DSD for the consumer is here to stay!

[mtan002]

Got it. Thanks.

[seeteeyou]

Resurrecting this thread for Chord Hugo. Imported 2 of them from UK for £2,000 (Excl. VAT) so far and planning to get another one later for triple-stacking. Not really THAT much more than $3,649 exaSound e28 Femto Clock, and 3 brand new Mytek would cost $4,800 / £2,800 while 3 Hugo should be £3,000 (Excl. VAT) when we order them from Asia.

 

 

Is that no go for Hugo since its firmware / drivers won't support multiple devices to begin with?

 

 

Maybe I have to go for this Oppo 103 mod instead?

 

 

http://www.audiopraise.com/forum/read.php?11,503

 

 

http://www.audiopraise.com/vanityhd/overview.php

[ted_b]

What Hugo will need is a DSD-capable ASIO driver that shows the channels going to each unit (USB hub). exaSound has its own, o course, and the Mytek ASIO driver does DSD and allows channel mapping (it's defauilt is to take oldest s/n and send to front, next oldest to c/lfe and last s/n to rears).

[audiogene]

I recently purchased a Pioneer SC-LX87-K which was adverted to be capable of native DSD playback via HDMI, USB/MemoryStick, USB/ComputerAudioDriver and Network (DLNA server/UPNP). To cut a long thing short I found out the beast only supports 2.0 DSD natively over any of the above interfaces. Even the 5.1 DSD stream of a BD player connected over HDMI would be converted to multichannel PCM (@ 6x88 or 176kHz). WTF!

 

Apart from this drawback the Pioneer is a great sounding device with digital class D power amp stages - actually the first class D amp sounding better than my old Krell KSA-250s!

 

This leads me to the question wouldn't it be high time for an integrated digital amp capable of playing back 5.1 DSD from commonly used digital input sources? Such an integrated design would not need any format conversion nor decimation filters. There would only be needed the digital low pass filter in the class D stage. PCM sources would have to be converted to DSD instead - better than half-hearted oversampling and extra PCM processing of today's devices.

 

Well, I had a dream...

[bmoura]

Resurrecting this thread for Chord Hugo. Imported 2 of them from UK for £2,000 (Excl. VAT) so far and planning to get another one later for triple-stacking. Not really THAT much more than $3,649 exaSound e28 Femto Clock, and 3 brand new Mytek would cost $4,800 / £2,800 while 3 Hugo should be £3,000 (Excl. VAT) when we order them from Asia.

 

Is that no go for Hugo since its firmware / drivers won't support multiple devices to begin with?

 

 

Maybe I have to go for this Oppo 103 mod instead?

 

 

Vanity103HD DoP output in SACD mode

 

 

Audiopraise :: Specialist in digital electronics and signal processing

 

Those products look like they convert DSD to PCM with the Oppo. With the exaSound e28, you get native DSD output up to Quad DSD (DSD256). A better way to go.

[bmoura]

I recently purchased a Pioneer SC-LX87-K which was adverted to be capable of native DSD playback via HDMI, USB/MemoryStick, USB/ComputerAudioDriver and Network (DLNA server/UPNP). To cut a long thing short I found out the beast only supports 2.0 DSD natively over any of the above interfaces. Even the 5.1 DSD stream of a BD player connected over HDMI would be converted to multichannel PCM (@ 6x88 or 176kHz). WTF!

 

Apart from this drawback the Pioneer is a great sounding device with digital class D power amp stages - actually the first class D amp sounding better than my old Krell KSA-250s!

 

This leads me to the question wouldn't it be high time for an integrated digital amp capable of playing back 5.1 DSD from commonly used digital input sources? Such an integrated design would not need any format conversion nor decimation filters. There would only be needed the digital low pass filter in the class D stage. PCM sources would have to be converted to DSD instead - better than half-hearted oversampling and extra PCM processing of today's devices.

 

Well, I had a dream...

 

That would be an interesting product. For now, the only Integrated Amps with DSD output are 2 Channel only. Another example would be the Playback Designs IPS-3, an integrated amp with 2.0 DSD out.

 

Playback Designs » IPS-3 Integrated

[Delbert]

Could you use three inexpensive DSD DAC’s for multi-channel DSD playback?

 

 

Something like three Schiit Loki’s, or three iFi nano iDSD’s?

[bmoura]

Could you use three inexpensive DSD DAC’s for multi-channel DSD playback?

 

 

Something like three Schiit Loki’s, or three iFi nano iDSD’s?

 

You'd need a driver written for the three inexpensive Stereo DACs that does channel mapping. Ted_B is the expert in this area - he's linked 3 low cost Mytek DSD DACs for Multichannel.

 

For best results with Multichannel DSD, get an exaSound e28 DAC.

[ted_b]

Could you use three inexpensive DSD DAC’s for multi-channel DSD playback?

 

 

Something like three Schiit Loki’s, or three iFi nano iDSD’s?

 

That's what I did (six pages and a year and a half ago)! That's what this thread is about. The traffic cop is the Mytek ASIO driver (the word clock in/out cabling for synching helped too, but not mandatory).

[sdolezalek]

Interesting that 18 months later we don't seem to have made much progress on this. I'm actually trying to decide whether I add another iFi nano iDSD plus an iFi micro iDSD to my existing nano (for six channels but with the better micro on the front R&L speakers when I listen to just stereo) or just go with the exasound e-28 which still seems to be the only on-box solution for DSD.

 

Ted: I assume the Mytek ASIO driver won't do me any good with the iFi's?

[bmoura]

Interesting that 18 months later we don't seem to have made much progress on this. I'm actually trying to decide whether I add another iFi nano iDSD plus an iFi micro iDSD to my existing nano (for six channels but with the better micro on the front R&L speakers when I listen to just stereo) or just go with the exasound e-28 which still seems to be the only on-box solution for DSD.

 

Ted: I assume the Mytek ASIO driver won't do me any good with the iFi's?

 

Your best bet for 6 Channel sound is to have the same electronics for all channels. Having different DACs, some better and perhaps slightly different sounding than others, will mess up the balance of the recordings. So I would suggest using 3 iDSD Nanos, 3 iDSD Micros or 3 Mytek Stereo192-DSDs if that is the approach taken.

 

I applaud those music fans brave enough to link 3 Stereo DACs for Multichannel DSD playback. A little more adventurous than I would be. I bought an e28 from exaSound and haven't looked back.

[Miska]

Could you use three inexpensive DSD DAC’s for multi-channel DSD playback?

 

Something like three Schiit Loki’s, or three iFi nano iDSD’s?

 

No... Reason is that it is very difficult to get multiple devices started precisely at the same time within one sample's time, so that there wouldn't be phase differences between those devices. And if you can start those at the same time, over time phase difference will develop because you'll never have three clocks running precisely at the same speed.

 

Pro-gear has word-clock inputs for synchronizing the clocks. Interfaces like AES and S/PDIF are better than USB for this purpose because master clock is at the sender side so there's no clock synchronization issue and you can use interfaces like the multi-AES cards from RME or Lynx to output synchronized multichannel. Asynchronous USB goes precisely against you in this kind of setup because master clock is at the DAC side, and there cannot be three master clocks for one content.

 

At technical level, Linux audio system supports linking multiple audio interfaces together and attempting to start those simultaneously.