The Computer Audiophile Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 Since SGB got me started on Amazon's "used & new" CDs, I think I'll ask everyone else where to find the cheapest / best selection of CDs on the Internet. I'm guessing the cheapest will be used, thus the title Used CDs. I noticed eBay has come deals, but onl before calculating shipping cost. An $8 CD is OK, but not after $7 shipping! Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
sgbaird Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 Chris, There are more reasons than the obvious lower prices ON CURRENTLY AVAILABLE CDs, but as some collectors may soon learn, recordings that go OOP (out of print) could cost many times more than they would have paid when the item was current. The basic business model for the music industry appears to be that more obscure or less popular items will stay in print only so long as there is stock in their warehouses, and in some cases, a title may be declared OOP even before this if the sales numbers just aren't sufficient to merit the warehouse space. When specially licensed items are considered (such as Mobile Fidelity or DCC reissues targeted at audiophiles), it is important to remember that these recordings have a time limitation on the license, and, in most cases, a maximum number of recordings that can be sold. These limitations will certainly add to the value of a particular CD. For example, all three of the Nat "King" Cole recordings that DCC released on both LP and CD generally sell at ebay auction for several hundred dollars. There could be numerous other examples — I have paid as much as $300 for a single rarity, but, for the intent of this thread, the help I hope to provide others has to begin with why buy used instead of a newer reissue. The first is sound quality. You may have noticed that when you replace an older CD with a newly remastered, reissued one, that the sound level is often much higher. This is due in large part to the level of compression that has been applied to the recording. I believe Chris has supplied a link to a site that demonstrates this. In fact, compression is, though, only one of the engineering aspects that effect sound quality. When CDs are reissued, a different engineer may apply such things as noise suppression or some sort of equalization that may actually work to the detriment of the sound. N.B. there have been noted incidents of the audiophile specialty labels intentionally using EQ to differentiate their products from what is in normal channels. Essentially, earlier releases are preferable to remastered reissues because there was so much demand to get CD product into the stores that the majority were what are called flat transfers. Thus, you have more of a chance at getting a CD that sounds more like the master tape; and this despite the technological advances of the digital recording venue. For the hard to find items, ones that you just can't find in the usual places, a Google search will often help you (but not always). Some times you will find that the only places that have an item you're searching for are in faraway places and at very high prices. There is one seller in Europe you might find via Google that lists a number of very hard to find MoFis etc., and his average price for them is 199 Euros. There are also a few music subscription sites (such as GEMM) that will list the wares of thousands of sellers around the world. Here, too, you will find that the prices are not always what you want to pay. That leaves us with ebay and Amazon as the two major sources of used recordings. Many used music sellers use one or the other (or both) to advertise their inventories, but over the past several years I have noticed that fewer are listing the quality stuff on ebay, and, instead, putting it on Amazon. The reasons for this are obvious: unlike ebay where a seller must pay to list his items in a "store" OR place the item up for auction, Amazon allows its sellers to list its items free of charge for up to 60 days. So, for them, there is no up-front expense and they can put a fair value on it. (I once put a VERY rare CD up on Amazon for the outrageous asking price of $400, thinking nobody would buy it, but it sold within moments after it was listed. I confess I felt bad about taking the buyer's money, especially in consideration of the fact that a few months later the recording was finally reissued.) It is important to know that if you buy a used CD from an Amazon seller that if you are looking for something in particular — a Larry Walsh mastered Sinatra CD, for example, or a copy of Getz-Gilberto that has Astrid's voice properly placed in the left channel in "Ipanema" — that you ASK before you buy. Most times you will get an answer from your seller. I will usually ask someone to verify the UPC number of the item for sale, but in some cases the catalog number will do. If you are fortunate enough to live in a city with lots of used record stores and you are the adventurous sort, then there's no telling what you may find. Unfortunately, a lot of these stores have subscribed to a computerized inventory system that will give them the heads up when someone brings in a collectible. These will usually end up on ebay instead of being put in the bins. A local used store once had a pair of the Traveling Wilburys CDs on display, each with a $50 price tag. Today, though, those same CDs would bring only $6.99. Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted February 28, 2008 Author Share Posted February 28, 2008 Thanks for all the solid information SGB. I do have an awesome used retailer in Minneapolis called Cheapo. They have one giant floor of digital and one giant basement of analog music. My only problem is digging through everything! What a rough problem to have! I wish they had an online inventory, but then I would miss out on the smell of vinyl and those amazing CD finds when you're not expecting it. Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
sgbaird Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 I got my used copy of the DCC Elvis 24 Karat Hits here for $19.99 back in 2001. But they are no more... http://www.djangomusic.com/maintenance.asp I'm pretty sure I've been to Cheapo and several other places in Minneapolis, Chris. That was back in my vinyl days, 1983 I'd guess, as I recall Harry James (of Sheffield Direct Disk fame) passed away while I was up there. Link to comment
markr Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 ...that I don't like the sound of most CD's? We have a Cheapo's here in Austin. I was under the impression that they were a local business. ..... Never been there. Gonna download all my music from now on...... right..... markr "I've got a googlephonic stereo with a moon rock stylus. Sounds like SH*T! - steve martin Link to comment
Gonzo1 Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 BMG Music. Usually get CDs for around $6-7 including shipping. McIntosh C500T&P, MC501s, Sonus Faber Cremona M, Ayre QB-9, Oppo BDP-83 Mac Mini Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted March 1, 2008 Author Share Posted March 1, 2008 I just got back from Cheapo in fact. The place certainly has the look and feel of a local business because of the no frills appearance etc... Some of them are better than others. We have several in Minneapolis and the one in Uptown is by far the best. I love the fact they are open 9am - Midnight 365 days a year. You never know when you'll need to run out and pick up an album. Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
Innertuber Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 I'm trying to sell about 382 CD's for $535. I can post or mail a list if anybody is shopping for a big haul of mostly 70s 80s rock type music. Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted March 10, 2008 Author Share Posted March 10, 2008 I might be interested. Feel free to post the list or email me. Thanks! Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
Innertuber Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Multi CD box sets Led Zeppelin - 4 Disks Box Set, Book Rod Stewart - Storyteller, 4 Disks, Box Set, Book Soul Train - Hall Of Fame, 3 Disks, Box Felt Set, Book Tommy Bolin - Ultimate, 2 Box Set, Book Multi CD sets Allman Brothers - Dreams, 4 Disks Beastie Boys - Anthology, 2 Disks Bee Gees - Greatest, 2 Disks Best Of The 70’s - Original Artists, 3 Disks Doors - Best Of, 2 Disks Elton John - Goodbye Yellow Brick Road Disk 2, #1 Missing Elton John - Here And There, 2 Disks Elton John - To Be Continued, 4 Disks Eric Clapton - Crossroads, 4 Disks George Harrison - Live In Japan, 2 Disks Humble Pie - Hot And Nasty, 2 Disks, CD Size Book Jethro Tull - 36 Greatest Hits, 3 Disks Marvin Gaye - The Best Of, 2 Disks Neil Young Crazy Horse - Weld, 2 Disks Rock Archives - Volume 1 And 2, 2 Disks Rush - Chronicles, 2 Disks Smashing Pumpkins - Mellon Collie, 2 Disks Talking Heads - Sand In The Vaseline, 2 Disks The Band - The Last Waltz, 2 Disks Todd Rundgren - Something Anything, 2 Disks Traffic - Smiling Phases, 2 Disks War - Anthology, 2 Disks CD Size Book Willie Nelson - 6 Top Ten Hits, 2 Disks Woodstock - 2 Disks Woodstock 94, 2 Disks Regular CD’s 38 Special - Bone Against Steel 38 Special - Flashback 38 Special Strength In Numbers AC/DC - Back In Black Aerosmith - Get A Grip Alan Parsons - Project The Best Of Volume 2 Alarm - Eye Of A Hurricane Aldo Nova - A Portrait Of An Allman Bros - Where It All Begins Aretha Franklin - Chain Of Fools Asia Atlantic Rhythm And Blues - Volume 7 B-52’s - Good Stuff B-52s - Cosmic Thing Babies - Anthology Bad Company - Here Comes Trouble Badfinger Barry White - Hits Basia - London Warsaw NY Basia - Time And Tide Beatles - Free As A Bird Beck - Mellow Gold Beck - Odelay Ben Harper - Will To Live Better Than Ezra - Deluxe Big Country - Peace In Wartime Billboard Top Hits 70’s Billy Idol - Rebel Yell Billy Idol - Vital Idol Billy Squire - Don’t Say No Black Crowes - Amorica Black Crowes - Shake Your Money Maker Black Crowes - Southern Harmony Blind Melon Blondie - Best Of Blue Oyster Cult - On Flame With Rock And Roll Blues Traveler Blues Traveler - Save His Soul Bob Dylan - Oh Mercy Bob Marley - Legend Bob Seger - Beautiful Looser Bob Seger - Stranger In Town Bon Jovi - Slippery When Wet Bread - Anthology Brian Ferry - Taxi Bruce Springsteen - Human Touch Bruce Springsteen - Tunnel Of Love Bryan Adams - Cuts Like A Knife Bryan Adams - Into The Fire Bryan Adams - So Far So Good Bryan Adams - Waking Up The Neighbors BTO - Greatest Hits Byrds - Super Hits Call - Red Moon Candlebox - Happy Pills Candlebox - Lucy Cars - Candy-O Cat Stevens - Classics Chicago - If You Leave Me Now Chris Issak - Forever Blue Chris Rea - New Light Through Old Windows Chris Rea - Road To Hell Classic Rock Volume 1 Classic Soul Concrete Blond - Mexican Moon Crosby Still Nash - CSN Crosby Still Nash Young - So Far Crosby Still Nash Young - American Dream Cure - Disintegration Cure - Mixed Up Cutting Edge - Best Of Modern Rock Hits Volume 2 Damn Yankees Damn Yankees - Don’t Tread David Bowie - Changesbowie David Lee Roth - A Little Ain’t Enough David Lee Roth - Skyscraper Deep Purple - Knocking At Your Backdoor Dig - Radioactive Dire Straits - On Every Street Dishwalla - Pet Your Friends Don Henley - End Of The Innocence Doobies - Best Of The Doobies Doobies - Takin It To The Streets Doors - Morrison Hotel Eagles - The Long Run Edwin Collins - Gorgeous George Eighties GH - Living In Oblivion Elton John - Don’t Shoot Me Elton John - Duets Elton John - Greatest Hits Elton John - Greatest Hits Vol 2 Elton John - Reg Strikes Back Elton John - The One Elvis Costello - Armed Forces Elvis Costello - The Very Best Of Eric Burdon Animals - Best Of Eric Clapton - Slowhand Extreme II - Pornograffitti Firefall - Greatest Hits Fixx - Calm Animals Fixx - Ink Fleetwood Mac - Behind The Mask Fleetwood Mac - Tango In The Night Foreigner Foreigner - Best And Beyond Frampton - Comes Alive #2 Frozen Ghost Fury - In The Slaughterhouse Garbage - Beautiful Gene Loves Jezebel - Discover Gene Loves Jezebel - From The Mouths Of Babes Gene Loves Jezebel - Kiss Of Life George Thorogood - Baddest Gin Blossoms - New Miserable Experience Gods Child - Everybody Gold And Platinum Vol. 5 Grand Funk - E Pluribus Funk Grand Funk - Hits Grand Funk Railroad - Collectors Series Grand Funk Railroad - Pair Grateful Dead - Skeletons From The Closet Great White - Best Of Greatest Hits 80’s Volume 1 Original Artists Original Hits Greatest Hits Of The 80’s Power Ballads Volume 5 Grin - Seven Flavors Hall And Oats - H20 Harry Connick, Jr. - Blue Light Havana - Black Indian Warrior Heart - Hits Herb Albert And TB - Hits Hooters - Nervous Night Inxs - Full Moon Dirty Hearts Inxs - Listen Like Thieves Inxs - Welcome The Wherever You Are Inxs - X Iron Butterfly In A Gadda Da Vida Izzy Stradlin And The Ju Ju Hounds James Taylor - Greatest Hits Jan Hammer - Escape From Television Jane’s Addiction - Ritual De Lo Habitual Janis Joplin - Pearl Jean Loves Jezebel - In The Afterglow Jefferson Starship - Gold Jimi Hendrix - Kiss The Sky Jimi Hendrix - Radio One Jimi Hendrix - Tribute Stone Free Jimmy Barnes - Freight Train Heart Jimmy Buffet - Greatest Hits Jimmy Buffett - Changes In Lattitudes Joe Cocker - One Night Of Sin Joe Jackson - Hits John Cougar - American Fool John Cougar Mellancamp - Scarecrow John Cougar Mellancamp - Uh-Huh John Lennon - Collection John Lennon - Imagine John Lennon - Shaved Fish John Mellancamp - Big Daddy John Mellancamp - Dance Naked John Mellancamp - Human Wheels John Mellancamp - Whenever We Wanted John Mellencamp John Mellencamp - Mr. Happy Go Lucky Jude Cole - A View From Third Street Julian Lennon - Help Yourself Kansas - Point Of No Return KC Sunshine Band - Best Of Kenny Loggins - Leap Of Faith Kid Rock - Star Profile Kinks - All The Hits And More Kinks - Best Of 77 -86 Kinks - Come Dancing Kiss - Destroyer Kiss - Dressed To Kill Kiss - Hotter Than Hell Kiss - My Ass Kiss - You Wanted The Best Kiss Alive - Three Led Zeppelin - In Through The Out Door Lemmon Heads - It’s A Shame About Ray Lenny Kravitz - Circus Lenny Kravitz - Let Love Rule Lenny Kravitz - 5 Lenny Kravitz - Are You Gonna Go My Way Listen Up - Mixed Artists Loverboy - Keep It Up Lyle Lovett - Pontiac Lynyrd Skynyrd - #3 Madonna - Immaculate Collection Mamas Pappas - 16 Greatest Hits Masters Of Metal Wreaking Havoc Volume 1 Mathew Sweet - Altered Beast Melissa Etheridge - Brave And Crazy Melissa Etheridge - Yes I Am Michael Bolton Michael Bolton - The Hunger Mickey Hart - Planet Drum Midnight Oil - Blue Sky Mining Montgomery Gentry - You Do Your Thing Motley Crue - Decade Of Decadence Mozart - Final Symphonies Nazareth - Classics Neil Young - Freedom Neil Young - Harvest Neil Young - Mirror Mall Neil Young - Unplugged Nirvana - In Utero Nirvana - Nevermind Nirvana - Unplugged In New York Number One Hits From 25 Years Vol. 2 Oasis - Definitely Maybe One-Hit Wonders Ozzie Osborne - No More Tears Pat Benatar - Best Shots Pat Benatar - Gravity’s Rainbow Pat Benatar - Precious Time Patty Smith - Dream Of Life Pearl Jam - Vitology Pearl Jam - Yield Pearl Jam No Code Peter Frampton Peter Frampton - Classics Peter Frampton – Comes Alive 2 Peter Frampton - Premonition Peter Murphy - Cascade Peter Murphy - Deep Peter, Paul And Mary - Best Of Pink Floyd Delicate Sound Of Thunder (Disk 2) Planet P - Project Pretty And Twisted Radio Hits 1975 Radiohead - Pablo Honey Ratt - Ratt And Roll REO - High Infidelity Rick Springfield - Best Of Robert Plant - Fate Of Nations Rodger McGuinn - Back From Rio Rolling Stones - Voodoo Lounge Rush - Counterparts Rusted Root - When I Woke Sade - Best Of Sammy Hagar - Unboxed Santana - Supernatural Sean Lennon - Into The Sun Seventies Radio Hits Vol. 2 Simon Garfunkel - Greatest Hits Simple Minds - Glittering Prize Sinead O’Connor - I Don’t Want What I Haven’t Got Sly Stone - Greatest Hits Sonny & Cher - Best Of Sound Garden - Super Unknown Spin Doctors - Turn It Upside Down Split Enz - History Never Repeats Sponge - Rotting Piñata Steve Miller - Best Of Steve Miller - Born 2 B Blue Steve Winwood - Chronicles Steveie Nicks - Best Of Time Space Sting - Nothing Like The Sun Sting - Soul Cages Sting - Ten Summoner’s Tales Stray Cats Rock This Town Styx - Lady Supertramp - Breakfast In America Talking Heads - Stop Making Sense Tears For Fears - Seeds Of Love Tears For Fears - Elemental Tears For Fears - Saturnine Martial And Lunatic Temple Of The Dog The Band - The Last Waltz The Church - Gold Afternoon Fix The Cure - Staring At The Sea Hits The Outfield - Diamond Days The Outlaws - Extended Versions Thin Lizzy - Best Of Dedication Three Dog Night - Best Of Timbuk3 - Eden Alley Tin Machine Todd Rundgren - No World Order Tom Cochrane - Mad Mad World Tom Jones - Golden Hits Tom Petty - Damn The Torpedos Tom Petty - Full Moon Fever Tom Petty - Hits Tom Petty - Southern Accents Tom Petty - Wildflowers Tommy Bolin - Teaser Tommy James And The Shondells - Anthology Trace Adkins - Dreaming Outloud Twenty Five Years Of Soul 1970 U2 - The Unforgettable Fire Uriah Heep - Live Europe 79 Us3 - Hand On The Torch Van Halen - Diver Down Van Halen - II Vintage Music Collectors Series Volume 19 And 20 (On One Cd) Wallflowers - Bringing Down The House Wang Chung - Points On The Curve Whitesnake - Greatest Hits Yes - Highlights Yes - Talk Yes - Union Ziggy Marley - Conscious Party ZZ Top - Greatest Hits ZZ Top – Recycler Soundtracks Jerry Maguire Soundtrack Dead Presidents Music Soundtrack Commitments Soundtrack Any Given Sunday Soundtrack The Crow Soundtrack Forrest Gump Soundtrack, 2 Disks Reality Bites Soundtrack Also, a few compilations, mostly 70s and 80s, like the CD’s they sell on TV and a few other loose CDs Link to comment
Innertuber Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 About 1/4 have sold. I'm now splitting them up so price is 10 CDs for $17.50, other than the first box and multi cd sets. If any interest I can update what's left, which is still a lot and put in box set prices. You pay shipping which is pretty low, around $3 for 10 CDs. All but 3 have original artwork and jewel case. (I think the cases are at least.) Everything plays fine for me. Some of the jewel cases have broken hinges or stress cracks from being stacked. I looked at 100 of them up close and personal and saw no severe damage on the disks. George Link to comment
davip Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 Hi Chris, SGB, All, I picked up on the statement in this post referring to changed sound quality in reissued CDs. Of course, for many this is the reason for purchase in the first place, but I think we all have a right to expect this to be an improvement in every case. That it often is not - that the reissue often sounds worse than the original - has soured this for me, and I am sure many others. The main issue seems to be changing notions of what 'remastering' means. Back in the good old pre-digital days it used to be the case that remastering had a specific meaning: going back to an early generation tape and cutting a new master of it (e.g., for stamping purposes or re-release). As SGB says, these days re-mastered seems to be little more than a marketing ploy to get people to re-buy music they already own on CD, a ploy doubtless inspired by the original wheeze of getting people to buy muisc on CD they already owned on vinyl (in both cases, the replacement sounding worse). Is there evidence for this claim? I can offer two examples: i) 'Soul mining' by The The on CD, a fine sounding album that I lost the original of and replaced with the '24 Bit Remaster' version. Clearly, no more bits get through to the down-sampled CD than the original 16 bit issue, but there is the suggestion that some effort has been put into the re-issue as regards sound quality. Nothing could be further from the truth - even from memory, the remaster sounded much worse than the original: glassy, harsh, compressed; in effect, everything that was bad from the early days of CD that re-mastering with new technology ought to rectify. It took me a few months to find the original at a cheap price on Ebay, but when I did it was exactly as I thought - the original sounded far, far better. Was an earlier (mastertape?) source used for the 24 bit re-issue and just stuffed-up by a cack-handed engineer, or was the original CD master (probably DAT) simply re-equalised, noise-filtered and dynamic-range 'enhanced' etc., resulting in the dreadful sound of the re-issue? Who knows, but I suspect it was the latter. ii) 'Quit Dreaming and get on the Beam' by Bill Nelson. This one ought to have been cut and dried: contractual issues had caused the original mastertapes to be unavailable for years and the original CD release was as rare as hen's teeth, and priced accordingly. When the issues were resolved and the master handed over, the resulting CD re-issue, supposedly taken from this tape, sounded worse than the original (which itself suffered badly in comparison to the vinyl). I suspect the same events took place. Every CD I have heard where remastering is the USP, but no reference to an improved source is mentioned, sounds worse, e.g., The Cure, Peter Gabriel, Japan, Roxy Music, Sting, The The, Vangelis... I now never buy a remastered CD unless it is quite clear that it is taken from the original master tape and there are some details about the production. When this is the case, the results can be astonishing for CD: the original release of 'Music for Films' by Brian Eno sounded awful on CD first time round, substantially worse even then the music cassette copy, and a joke compared to the vinyl. When re-released from the cutting masters, a souped-up reel to reel feeding the A-D converter, the result sounded amazing, as did similar original master efforts from The Police and Jethro Tull. The lesson seems clear: if your copy sounds fine, don't replace it unless you have reason to suspect that an earler generation source is employed (or it's a MFSL!). My favorite example of this sort of remaster record-company cynicism is the Digital Remaster of 'Nothing but the Sun' by Sting - a digital remaster of a digital (DDD) recording!! cheers, Dave P. Link to comment
markr Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 Welcome to CA! and thank you. When one comes finally down to it, the SOURCE, or master of the piece we are listening to is really what determines our experience of that artist's offering. That source is what we depend on and in every case is what determines whether a smile is on our 'listening to it' face or not. It is really unfortunate that is probably the least documented item on the list of what a CD (or a download, nowadays..) is "made from". It should be the first on the list, no? thanks for speaking up! markr Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted March 30, 2008 Author Share Posted March 30, 2008 Hey Dave - You said it all pretty well. 24 bit remasters for 16 bit CDs and even remasters of DDD recordings. To me a remaster just means the sound will be different. Sometimes that means very compressed and loud and other times it means pure sonic bliss! I will always purchase albums from Analogue Productions without worry of compressions and other popular remastering techniques that hinder sound quality. Thanks a lot for the post. I think you'll find a lot of fans around here that are in sync with your thoughts. Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
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