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WTF is iCloud and...


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For example clock_gettime() or bunch of the clocks specified for it in POSIX was missing. gettimeofday() is there, but it's broken because it gets screwed up by NTP or system clock modifications, and 1003.1-2008 says:

"Applications should use the clock_gettime() function instead of the obsolescent gettimeofday() function."

 

Lot of the advanced threading, synchronization and IPC stuff was missing.

 

All of the features I have that are tagged as "REALTIME" in 1003.1 are missing.

 

A while ago I just for fun checked out my sources and started compiling from the first "basic stuff" -library. I spent an entire evening putting in ugly workarounds for all the missing things before I got fed up and deleted all the sources.

 

Most of the stuff builds just fine on Solaris too.

 

Sorry. I have a bad feeling you told me this before.

 

I probably already asked if this would help too: https://gist.github.com/1087739

 

I don't know enough to be of any use.

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Sorry. I have a bad feeling you told me this before.

 

I probably already asked if this would help too: https://gist.github.com/1087739

 

Yes, I think we've discussed it before. That code is helpful for reading out time if the HIGHRES_CLOCK id is supported. However, next problem are all those POSIX functions that are supposed to take struct timespec as argument (hacked to use timeval on OSX?) don't know about that clock.

 

Many of the things can probably be worked around by bunch of code and dealing with Mach APIs straight, but if the OS is supposed to be POSIX compliant, all that should be already implemented in libc!? Probably things would work if I would make Frankenstein and mix Mach and POSIX.

 

GUI itself is not a problem at all. It's all the low level stuff...

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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I hate to say it, but did you bother to install the GCC libraries? The stuff you are talking about is mostly implemented in gcc, even on Solaris and Linux.

 

I have Xcode 3.2. I guess my OS (10.6?) is not recent enough for newer versions. And there was no web download for the newer versions anyway.

 

I always use only commandline and definitely I have needed things installed, because 75% of the code compiles and then rest 25% fails because of missing POSIX feature compliance.

 

I expect to have FULL 1003.1-2008, EVERYTHING that is specified there, including all the optional parts. Apple didn't implement even the previous -2001 version completely and now they are lacking even more on -2008.

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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How do I turn it off? Anybody? Where in preferences? I looked but didn't see a switch or box to check.

 

Thanks.

 

Have a mid 2010 Mini with 128 GB SSD that I use solely for music and have yet to upgrade to newest OS (Mountain Lion, I think). Should I do that? Use Audirvana + and PM as players with Mytek DAC. Seem to think I'll get direct mode with new OS, based upon the A+ thread.

Tone with Soul

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Arguing over cloud services? Fun times.

 

Each company has it's own "Cloud" offering with different features. Do they lock you in? Yes, some do, but that could also be called a feature. If you are looking for complete openness of a cloud service that's a feature and may require building your own cloud (for example using a Synology RAID array).

 

Where some confusion comes in is that operating systems are now dependent on their respective cloud offerings. OSX requires iCloud to function properly, Android requires a Google account, Windows 8 requires an iLive/Skydrive/Whatever they call it now account. Heck, even the latest Ubuntu provides cloud services and encourages you to create an account. What exactly the OS does with this cloud account varies from OS to OS but one thing is absolutely true in that, beyond logging in, you don't need to interact with any of these services if you don't want to.

 

Locking you into a service provides tremendous value for the average consumer in my opinion. For those who are not average go build your own or use the bits you want from each service. The latter is what I do. I've got cloud accounts all over the place and have built my own solution at the same time. I use the best of all worlds with the headache of initial set-up and evaluation of all the offerings.

 

On any modern OS you cannot "turn it off" as the OS is dependent on it. Just login, let the OS get access to what it needs to function, and ignore everything else.

 

About Apple's compliance with POSIX, UNIX, GCC, etc. It sucks. Apple never said they built a flavor of Unix they built OSX. It's why I run Linux in a VM all the time on my MBP.

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Windows 8 requires an iLive/Skydrive/Whatever they call it now account

 

Well, only for Windows Phone 8 and Windows 8 RT, but not for the "normal" versions. I'm running Windows 8 Pro and I have never given it any cloud account id's or stuff like that. At configuration time it asks if you want to login with your Live ID, or with a local account (or optionally active directory / network domain controller).

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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Oh horseys - of course you can turn iCloud off - just simply do not log in. That's it. Of course, you might have a bit of an issue downloading software updates and such, but that's true anywhere, including Linux distributions.

 

As to POSIX compliance - propwash! OSX is labeled as POSIX compliant - and so, indeed, is MPE/ix. Which is anything but Unix like.

 

I get the feeling you guys going on about POSIX compliance are really talking about Linux compatibility more than anything else. I love LInux, but MacOS is superior in many ways. It is also true that Linux is superior in many ways.

 

-Paul

 

 

Arguing over cloud services? Fun times.

 

Each company has it's own "Cloud" offering with different features. Do they lock you in? Yes, some do, but that could also be called a feature. If you are looking for complete openness of a cloud service that's a feature and may require building your own cloud (for example using a Synology RAID array).

 

Where some confusion comes in is that operating systems are now dependent on their respective cloud offerings. OSX requires iCloud to function properly, Android requires a Google account, Windows 8 requires an iLive/Skydrive/Whatever they call it now account. Heck, even the latest Ubuntu provides cloud services and encourages you to create an account. What exactly the OS does with this cloud account varies from OS to OS but one thing is absolutely true in that, beyond logging in, you don't need to interact with any of these services if you don't want to.

 

Locking you into a service provides tremendous value for the average consumer in my opinion. For those who are not average go build your own or use the bits you want from each service. The latter is what I do. I've got cloud accounts all over the place and have built my own solution at the same time. I use the best of all worlds with the headache of initial set-up and evaluation of all the offerings.

 

On any modern OS you cannot "turn it off" as the OS is dependent on it. Just login, let the OS get access to what it needs to function, and ignore everything else.

 

About Apple's compliance with POSIX, UNIX, GCC, etc. It sucks. Apple never said they built a flavor of Unix they built OSX. It's why I run Linux in a VM all the time on my MBP.

Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC.

Robert A. Heinlein

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Oh horseys - of course you can turn iCloud off - just simply do not log in. That's it. Of course, you might have a bit of an issue downloading software updates and such, but that's true anywhere, including Linux distributions.

 

Out of curiosity, which Linux distribution requires any cloud/network login for downloading software updates? Since I'm not aware of any...

 

As to POSIX compliance - propwash! OSX is labeled as POSIX compliant - and so, indeed, is MPE/ix. Which is anything but Unix like.

 

Against which POSIX version and feature set? At least not 2008 with all features...

 

I get the feeling you guys going on about POSIX compliance are really talking about Linux compatibility more than anything else. I love LInux, but MacOS is superior in many ways. It is also true that Linux is superior in many ways.

 

At least I'm reading the official standard specification, not Linux documentation. Although many Linux distros also come with man pages for both the Linux version and the exact POSIX specification. (man section "3" vs "3p").

 

Ulrich Drepper (maintainer of glibc) blogged in April 2009:

"We (= Austin Group) have finished work on the 2008 revision of POSIX some time ago. In glibc 2.10 I’ve added the necessary feature select macros and more to glibc to support POSIX 2008. Most of it, at least. This was quite easy. A large part of the work which went into POSIX 2008 was to add functions which have been in glibc to POSIX. The Unix world catches up with Linux."

 

glibc is now at 2.17, released 25th Dec 2012.

 

Good luck for other OS to keep up... ;)

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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How do I turn it off? Anybody? Where in preferences? I looked but didn't see a switch or box to check.

 

Thanks.

 

Have a mid 2010 Mini with 128 GB SSD that I use solely for music and have yet to upgrade to newest OS (Mountain Lion, I think). Should I do that? Use Audirvana + and PM as players with Mytek DAC. Seem to think I'll get direct mode with new OS, based upon the A+ thread.

 

I have the same mini, and I put 10.6.8 one one partition and 10.8.2 on the other. I haven't felt the need to boot into 10.6.8 in awhile now but feel more secure keeping it. I never kept 10.7. It was a disaster.

 

I think you can turn it off from System Preferences > iCloud:

 

Screen Shot 2013-01-10 at 3.53.13 PM.png

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Out of curiosity, which Linux distribution requires any cloud/network login for downloading software updates? Since I'm not aware of any...

[/Quote]

 

SuSE & RedHat come to mind. Definitely require logins and active "cloud" accounts. :)

 

 

 

Against which POSIX version and feature set? At least not 2008 with all features...

 

 

 

At least I'm reading the official standard specification, not Linux documentation. Although many Linux distros also come with man pages for both the Linux version and the exact POSIX specification. (man section "3" vs "3p").

 

Ulrich Drepper (maintainer of glibc) blogged in April 2009:

"We (= Austin Group) have finished work on the 2008 revision of POSIX some time ago. In glibc 2.10 I’ve added the necessary feature select macros and more to glibc to support POSIX 2008. Most of it, at least. This was quite easy. A large part of the work which went into POSIX 2008 was to add functions which have been in glibc to POSIX. The Unix world catches up with Linux."

 

glibc is now at 2.17, released 25th Dec 2012.

 

Good luck for other OS to keep up... ;)

 

Keeping up is tough for any Non-Linux OS. Forging ahead is one of the many things Linux does exceptionally well. :)

 

I do think that lately POSIX has come to equal GCC more and more!

Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC.

Robert A. Heinlein

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I just thought of something else: Since OSX dev tools doesn't come with gfortran, to get the latest fortran compiler, i compile the whole of the gcc compiler suite along with glibc and all the other dependencies. Would that solve the problem for you? You could just statically link the appropriate libraries.

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I just thought of something else: Since OSX dev tools doesn't come with gfortran, to get the latest fortran compiler, i compile the whole of the gcc compiler suite along with glibc and all the other dependencies. Would that solve the problem for you? You could just statically link the appropriate libraries.

 

That would of course require that someone would have written bindings for the OS X kernel syscalls, since libc naturally sits straight on top of the kernel and has to talk directly to it.

 

Currently supported kernels are Linux and GNU Hurd (Hurd of course being Mach-based like OS X kernel too).

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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SuSE & RedHat come to mind. Definitely require logins and active "cloud" accounts. :)

 

I'm writing this post from an openSUSE system and have been running SuSE/openSUSE for quite a while (since -98 or so). And as a primary OS, since RedHat went Fedora in 2003. And I never had any logins with them.

 

I still have Fedora (the open RedHat) in virtual machine and it doesn't require any logins either. And I never had any logins with RedHat/Fedora and I've used it since RedHat Linux 3.0.3 from 1996.

 

My Ubuntu installations don't require any logins either and I've never had any logins/accounts with Ubuntu.

 

Before 1996 I was using Slackware (still alive today) and SLS (not alive anymore).

 

For the people interested in UNIX, I always recommend taking a look at the nice graph from:

UNIX History

I used to have that on my office wall...

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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I meant Suse and Redhat, not the Open versions. You must login with an account to download SuSE supported versions for sure, and you need an account and a support agreement to download fixes and updates.

 

Gosh - support for SuSE or Redhat is also rather expensive! $5K or more per year. :)

 

-Paul

 

 

I'm writing this post from an openSUSE system and have been running SuSE/openSUSE for quite a while (since -98 or so). And as a primary OS, since RedHat went Fedora in 2003. And I never had any logins with them.

 

I still have Fedora (the open RedHat) in virtual machine and it doesn't require any logins either. And I never had any logins with RedHat/Fedora and I've used it since RedHat Linux 3.0.3 from 1996.

 

My Ubuntu installations don't require any logins either and I've never had any logins/accounts with Ubuntu.

 

Before 1996 I was using Slackware (still alive today) and SLS (not alive anymore).

 

For the people interested in UNIX, I always recommend taking a look at the nice graph from:

UNIX History

I used to have that on my office wall...

Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC.

Robert A. Heinlein

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is there a simple way i could check? (im not a programmer, in case that is not obvious).

 

Source package is here:

http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/libc/glibc-2.17.tar.gz

 

You can just "tar xzf glibc-2.17.tar.gz ; cd glibc-2.17" and then try "./configure" and see if it goes through or gets terminated on the way on an error...

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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I meant Suse and Redhat, not the Open versions. You must login with an account to download SuSE supported versions for sure, and you need an account and a support agreement to download fixes and updates.

 

Gosh - support for SuSE or Redhat is also rather expensive! $5K or more per year. :)

 

Why don't you mean the open versions, which are more up to date anyway?

 

OK, you mean support contracts for RedHat Enterprise Linux or SuSE Linux Enterprise? Nobody is even trying to market those to the general consumer. But even when I've used RHEL I've never had to login to any cloud stuff. IT department probably has to in order to get support and to update local update distribution mirrors, but not me.

 

Compared to AppleCare OS Support which is from $5999 to $49995 it is of course expensive?

 

And for Windows 7 Enterprise I don't have to login to Microsoft clouds either, update delivery is handled by the IT department to my machine.

 

Point is that user of the machine still doesn't have to login to any cloud crap. And it is especially not pushed to end-users' face in enterprise environments - the only ones which would require some account at the provider side.

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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Why don't you mean the open versions, which are more up to date anyway?

 

Not hardly - the fastest patches and immedate support are available only under support contracts. When you have a whole bunch of LInux instances running and smack into a problem, that support is really really good to have.

 

OK, you mean support contracts for RedHat Enterprise Linux or SuSE Linux Enterprise? Nobody is even trying to market those to the general consumer. But even when I've used RHEL I've never had to login to any cloud stuff. IT department probably has to in order to get support and to update local update distribution mirrors, but not me.

[/Quote]

 

That would be be me, Mr. IT department - #1 nemesis of the freewheeling wannabe computer experts around the company. :)

 

Compared to AppleCare OS Support which is from $5999 to $49995 it is of course expensive?

 

[/Quote]Never paid for OS support directly, it always comes with Applecare on hardware or with a developer account, which is $99 or $399.

And for Windows 7 Enterprise I don't have to login to Microsoft clouds either, update delivery is handled by the IT department to my machine. [/Quote]

 

Who have very expensive Enterprise agreements (we have a couple of those too) and where you machine absolutely has to be part of an authorized domain.

Yep - wide open semi-private cloud. ):

 

 

Point is that user of the machine still doesn't have to login to any cloud crap. And it is especially not pushed to end-users' face in enterprise environments - the only ones which would require some account at the provider side.

 

Well, perhaps in your part of the world. Over here, the users still have to login. You can't even update Windows until at the very least, it "verifies" you are not a pirate...

 

-Paul

Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC.

Robert A. Heinlein

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Not hardly - the fastest patches and immedate support are available only under support contracts. When you have a whole bunch of LInux instances running and smack into a problem, that support is really really good to have.

 

No, fastest patches are for the open one, and of course if you want, you can patch yourself too. The enterprise versions are about one release generation behind, at least. They do so much testing for each patch that it delays the cycle a lot.

 

Check it out yourself, updates for the openSUSE 12.2:

Index of /update/12.2

 

Compare that against latest SUSE EL.

 

That would be be me, Mr. IT department - #1 nemesis of the freewheeling wannabe computer experts around the company. :)

 

Yeah, I use those for the Outlook. Real Work™ machines are managed by myself. But those won't be running any enterprise Linux anyway because it would be way too outdated for the purpose. (I tried once to work on RHEL and it's just impossible, because it's so last year...)

 

Heck, I may be even running a yet to be released development version of a distribution.

 

Never paid for OS support directly, it always comes with Applecare on hardware or with a developer account, which is $99 or $399.

 

I just wanted to compare apples to apples:

Apple - Support - AppleCare Professional Support

 

Linux developer stuff are the open versions, like openSUSE or Fedora, those will eventually become basis for the enterprise version once the open version becomes outdated... :)

 

openSUSE cranks out steady three releases per year and updates whenever something needs update.

 

Well, perhaps in your part of the world. Over here, the users still have to login. You can't even update Windows until at the very least, it "verifies" you are not a pirate...

 

No, the Windows Enterprise installations doesn't even allow you to run Windows Update or such. And no, none of the Windows Enterprise corporate installations I've used have never used Windows Update to deliver the updates. It has always been some third-party automated update delivery stuff that delivers the updates after IT has tested and packaged those.

 

I have made tons of Windows installations to SCADA systems and such that will never have any kind of internet connection in first place!

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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