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WTF is iCloud and...


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Why am I bothered with a login request?

 

Started when I downloaded iTunes 11.

 

Can I turn it off?

 

Is there any utility to it for music?

 

Use iPad to control headless Mac and the login pops up occasionally requiring to screen share and turn it off. Pain in the butt.

Tone with Soul

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It is simply a path to the iTunes store and a sales scheme disguised as a convenience....

 

The insistence of some vendors that all paths lead to their efforts to sell stuff is the primary reason I avoid such 'services'...

 

Another issue...it facilitates the sellers perpetual control over the product it sells. When I buy music or a book, I believe I own it. If I change services I desire to use on line, I expect my bought and paid for product to move to the new service. Folk like Apple and Amazon see it differently.

 

My wife had a tablet failure requireing replacement. We had a hellish time getting the several score kindle books we had BOUGHT to the new machine without having to buy the product again...

 

It is why I never, ever let the 'cloud' keep anything. If i cannot load it and keep it on my computers, I find another source. It is why I do not 'kindle'....

 

To me, the difference between owning something ans simply renting it via one time payment is the location of the file and my ability to get to it...

I have found you an argument; I am not obliged to find you any understanding – Samuel Johnson

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We have to disagree here James. First, iCloud is basically free up to some storage limit. (5gb I think) and second, it is a really really cool way to make all your music available remotely.

 

I was able to play a a very large chunk of my music library, while driving cross country, over the sound system in my truck. Easily, reliably, and with no cost. Duh- that is paradigm changing thing, and we are just at the very tip of the start of where it will lead.

 

But mostly, you can simply turn it off if you don't want to use it.

 

I think adjudging it as a "sales tool" is really missing a whole lot of things.

 

-Paul

 

 

It is simply a path to the iTunes store and a sales scheme disguised as a convenience....

 

The insistence of some vendors that all paths lead to their efforts to sell stuff is the primary reason I avoid such 'services'...

 

Another issue...it facilitates the sellers perpetual control over the product it sells. When I buy music or a book, I believe I own it. If I change services I desire to use on line, I expect my bought and paid for product to move to the new service. Folk like Apple and Amazon see it differently.

 

My wife had a tablet failure requireing replacement. We had a hellish time getting the several score kindle books we had BOUGHT to the new machine without having to buy the product again...

 

It is why I never, ever let the 'cloud' keep anything. If i cannot load it and keep it on my computers, I find another source. It is why I do not 'kindle'....

 

To me, the difference between owning something ans simply renting it via one time payment is the location of the file and my ability to get to it...

Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC.

Robert A. Heinlein

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Paul, until you decide to switch vendor. Try seamlessly moving your data between Apple <-> Google <-> Microsoft cloud services for instance. Without lost-in-translation -effects.

 

The service provider's is key is lock-in to their service and products.

 

We used to have open royalty-free standards for interoperability. Some large corporations now see standards as enemy, unless they can declare that "everybody must use our thing and pay us" as a "standard".

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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You can log into a remote Apple computer either the conventional way, or via your iCloud/Apple user ID and password. That is probably why you are getting prompted. The easiest workaround is to turn off that facility in System Preferences.

 

I don't use iCloud for music.

 

I do use iCloud for email, calendar syncing, and backup/syncing of my Keynote and Pages documents, for example. i turn it off completely on my music server.

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Hi Miska - I do not get where you are coming from. Switch what data? Music files?

 

It's not difficult to load music files to Google, or even Microsoft. Email? I have both iCloud and Google Mail accounts - I don't see a need to choose between them. But moving e-mail from Google to iCloud or vice versa is as simple as dragging it from one mailbox to another.

 

If you are saying that Apple has a better, more polished, far more *usable* implementation of cloud services, well, I would agree with you there. ;)

 

-Paul

 

 

Paul, until you decide to switch vendor. Try seamlessly moving your data between Apple <-> Google <-> Microsoft cloud services for instance. Without lost-in-translation -effects.

 

The service provider's is key is lock-in to their service and products.

 

We used to have open royalty-free standards for interoperability. Some large corporations now see standards as enemy, unless they can declare that "everybody must use our thing and pay us" as a "standard".

Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC.

Robert A. Heinlein

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Hi Miska - I do not get where you are coming from. Switch what data? Music files?

 

Try with contacts first, without losing any information associated to those. Such as chat contacts/buddies and chat backlogs.

 

By the way, how do you listen you iCloud music over internet on an Android device or Windows Phone 8 device?

 

If you are saying that Apple has a better, more polished, far more *usable* implementation of cloud services, well, I would agree with you there.

 

I completely disagree. Google has so far most universally usable cloud service across devices from widest variety of hardware vendors.

 

As number one rule, I'd never buy both service and hardware from same company. If I'd have to have hardware from the same company as the service, I'd already feel locked-in.

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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Try with contacts first, without losing any information associated to those. Such as chat contacts/buddies and chat backlogs. [/Quote]

I use the Apple Mail app to drag them around between email accounts - including GoogleMail and iCloud mail. Seems to work. I admit, I don't do a lot of that, as my Gmail account is more of a SPAM trap than a usable address.

 

By the way, how do you listen you iCloud music over internet on an Android device or Windows Phone 8 device?[/Quote]

I don't have a great answer to this, as my primary Android device is a Kindle, but I can easily stream Airplay to the Kindle. Cost me $5 to install the (non-Apple) Airplay app.

 

iCloud, well I am not sure that iCloud should stream music directly to Android devices. Why wouldn't you use Amazon or Google for that? (Honestly puzzled here, not sure why you seem to want to fit a round peg into a square hole.)

 

I completely disagree. Google has so far most universally usable cloud service across devices from widest variety of hardware vendors.

 

As number one rule, I'd never buy both service and hardware from same company. If I'd have to have hardware from the same company as the service, I'd already feel locked-in.

 

Well, whatever floats your boat mate. On the other paw, I don't see Apple as "locking" me to a single ecosystem. My phone is quite capable of displaying and allowing me to use a remote Windows desktop, a remote Unix session, a remote MacOS session, Google web services, Amazon web services, iCloud web services, and more. How is that "locking" someone in?

 

My Mac can run Windows and MacOS will full support from Apple. Microsoft, for example, does not support *any* hardware running their software. Google supports some Android stuff, but mostly does not support any platform at all. Very platform agnostic, but also very difficult to get to resolve problems.

 

Just my $0.00011 -Paul

Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC.

Robert A. Heinlein

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iCloud, well I am not sure that iCloud should stream music directly to Android devices. Why wouldn't you use Amazon or Google for that? (Honestly puzzled here, not sure why you seem to want to fit a round peg into a square hole.)

 

My point was to show lock-in between service - OS - hardware of Apple's. Apple doesn't have much support running their software or services on other mobile devices (phones, tablets) than their own. On desktop they have limited support of things for Windows, practically just iTunes and nothing more.

 

Well, whatever floats your boat mate. On the other paw, I don't see Apple as "locking" me to a single ecosystem. My phone is quite capable of displaying and allowing me to use a remote Windows desktop, a remote Unix session, a

 

Discussion was about iCloud service. How capable are you using iCloud with non-Apple phones or tablets?

 

You can use Google cloud services from iOS, but can you use iCloud services from Android?

 

My Mac can run Windows and MacOS will full support from Apple.

 

But you cannot officially run MacOS on non-Apple hardware. But you can run officially run Windows even on Apple hardware.

 

Microsoft, for example, does not support *any* hardware running their software.

 

Well they do, that's why they have the certification and Windows 8 -badges for hardware.

 

Windows 8 installed and works just fine on my desktop PC with nVidia graphics card, no need to install any drivers myself and it has full graphics acceleration and everything. Works very well indeed. It's not even Win8-badged hardware.

 

Google supports some Android stuff, but mostly does not support any platform at all. Very platform agnostic, but also very difficult to get to resolve problems.

 

Last I remember they have bunch of apps for iOS too.

 

Being platform agnostic and relying on standards like HTML5 is the key.

 

Not having vendor lock-in means you can use their services from any OS or hardware of your choice as long as it conforms to open standards from the likes of IETF and W3C. And that you can get all your data out of the service and move it to another service.

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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Miska - point a browser at iCloud.com, and all your services, with the possible exception of playing music, works just fine. From Windows, Linux, MacOS, iPhones, or Android devices - at least a Kindle Fire android device. Is that what you are asking? iTunes and Cloud services run on Windows just fine as well, even on non-Apple hardware.

 

How much more open can you be than that?

 

As for Microsoft supporting hardware, their "badging" thing is not hardware support in my book. Just try calling up Microsoft and asking them to help you with your HP computer. Indeed, try calling up HP and asking them to help with your HP computer...

 

Then call Apple and ask for help with your iPhone, Mac, iPad, Time Capsule, etc. That's hardware support.

 

I'm not really sure that being hardware agnostic is totally a *good* thing. Not being designed for any specific hardware means an app is unlikely to be the best it can be - since it will always be bloated or full of compromises. As you noted, there are literally 10's of thousands of non-Apple developers for iOS applications. That's also a pretty good indication of something being "open."

 

 

-Paul

 

My point was to show lock-in between service - OS - hardware of Apple's. Apple doesn't have much support running their software or services on other mobile devices (phones, tablets) than their own. On desktop they have limited support of things for Windows, practically just iTunes and nothing more.

 

 

 

Discussion was about iCloud service. How capable are you using iCloud with non-Apple phones or tablets?

 

You can use Google cloud services from iOS, but can you use iCloud services from Android?

 

 

 

But you cannot officially run MacOS on non-Apple hardware. But you can run officially run Windows even on Apple hardware.

 

 

 

Well they do, that's why they have the certification and Windows 8 -badges for hardware.

 

Windows 8 installed and works just fine on my desktop PC with nVidia graphics card, no need to install any drivers myself and it has full graphics acceleration and everything. Works very well indeed. It's not even Win8-badged hardware.

 

 

 

Last I remember they have bunch of apps for iOS too.

 

Being platform agnostic and relying on standards like HTML5 is the key.

 

Not having vendor lock-in means you can use their services from any OS or hardware of your choice as long as it conforms to open standards from the likes of IETF and W3C. And that you can get all your data out of the service and move it to another service.

Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC.

Robert A. Heinlein

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Miska - point a browser at iCloud.com, and all your services, with the possible exception of playing music, works just fine.

 

Yeah, looks nice:

icloud-error.png

 

I didn't find a way to create an account there?

 

As for Microsoft supporting hardware, their "badging" thing is not hardware support in my book. Just try calling up Microsoft and asking them to help you with your HP computer. Indeed, try calling up HP and asking them to help with your HP computer...

 

I've done both. Microsoft is very helpful with any problems related to their software. HP as extremely good support and service. For example I called their expensive support phone, when they couldn't solve the issue in two minutes, they asked by number and called back. The call I got from them took two hours and they solved my problem. They've also always replaced broken hardware within 24 hours of call by bringing replacement hardware to my door and picking up the broken one. Even asking if I need help with the replacement. They even allowed me to break apart a broken DLT tape drive to remove a tape with confidential data.

 

That's what I call support.

 

Apple Airport Express had obvious software bug and I didn't even find a place where to report the bug.

 

As you noted, there are literally 10's of thousands of non-Apple developers for iOS applications. That's also a pretty good indication of something being "open."

 

That doesn't mean it's open. There are even more software vendor for Microsoft Windows and that doesn't make it open or standard either. Having public APIs doesn't mean that the platform is open.

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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You are complaining about what? You used a fringe browser and iCloud warned you that there might be an incompatibility? I suppose you pressed the "Ingore" button and went on to the main site?

 

I get that you don't like Apple, that is rather obvious. But you do seem to be on a campain about it, and are using every little excuse to deride them. We will jsut have to disagree.

 

Fact is, Apple is pretty darn open. Even the development tools from Apple are free.

 

As for HP - I spent 7 months arguing with HP about a computer before they gave in and replaced it. SEVEN months. Microsoft won't even talk to you unless you fork up $250 first, and then, they usually wind up refunding the $250 because they have no idea how to solve the problem. "You have to talk to the hardware vendor about that."

 

You *never* get that kind of crap with Apple.

 

If you have an Airport device that failed, you could easily have walked into an Apple store - or wherever you bought it - and had it replaced. It does come with a warranty.

 

-Paul

 

 

Yeah, looks nice:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]3376[/ATTACH]

 

I didn't find a way to create an account there?

 

 

 

I've done both. Microsoft is very helpful with any problems related to their software. HP as extremely good support and service. For example I called their expensive support phone, when they couldn't solve the issue in two minutes, they asked by number and called back. The call I got from them took two hours and they solved my problem. They've also always replaced broken hardware within 24 hours of call by bringing replacement hardware to my door and picking up the broken one. Even asking if I need help with the replacement. They even allowed me to break apart a broken DLT tape drive to remove a tape with confidential data.

 

That's what I call support.

 

Apple Airport Express had obvious software bug and I didn't even find a place where to report the bug.

 

 

 

That doesn't mean it's open. There are even more software vendor for Microsoft Windows and that doesn't make it open or standard either. Having public APIs doesn't mean that the platform is open.

Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC.

Robert A. Heinlein

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You are complaining about what? You used a fringe browser and iCloud warned you that there might be an incompatibility? I suppose you pressed the "Ingore" button and went on to the main site?

 

I don't think Opera is fringe browser, it has one of the best HTML5 compliances. Or Chrome for that matter either.

 

Yes, "Ignore" went to the login screen, but I didn't find way to create account there. So it is not really available without Apple device? At least not officially.

 

Let's look at:

iCLOUD TERMS AND CONDITIONS

 

  • Find My iPhone / Find My Mac seem to obviously require an Apple device?
  • Find My Friends requires an App from App Store - obviously requires an Apple device?
  • Backup: "Automatic backup is available for iOS devices" - OK, no surprise on this either...
  • Photostream: "My Photo Stream is enabled on your device or computer" would I be surprised for this to require Apple device too?

 

So the service is pretty crippled without an Apple device?

 

I get that you don't like Apple, that is rather obvious.

 

Yeah I don't, but this wasn't about liking. I was trying to objectively view different levels of vendor lock-in in terms of services, software and hardware. From what I can see, Apple is the most lock-in while Google is least, offering wide variety of web-APIs for using their services through different other pieces of software, Microsoft being somewhere in the middle with service-software lock-in but without hardware lock-in.

 

Fact is, Apple is pretty darn open. Even the development tools from Apple are free.

 

Last I checked they wanted money for Xcode 4, Xcode 3 was the last I've seen free-as-in-beer.

 

Microsoft's Windows Phone SDK is free in similar way:

Windows Phone Dev Center

 

And they have also Visual Studio Express:

Visual Studio Express 2012 Products | Microsoft Visual Studio

 

Now compare that to Linux. I would like to browse CoreAudio source codes just for fun.

 

If you have an Airport device that failed, you could easily have walked into an Apple store - or wherever you bought it - and had it replaced. It does come with a warranty.

 

It was not about hardware failure, it was about a software bug. That doesn't go away by replacing. Well, I posted a lengthy explanation on their forum of the problem and how they are supposed to fix it. And later it got fixed, so maybe they figured it out or they were actually reading their forums. But that's not an official issue tracker.

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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(grin) Browser market share is a funny thing indeed, but I would call a browser with something like 1.4% of the market a Fringe browser. YMMV. :)

 

BrowserMarketShare.pdf

 

As for the rest, you do not need an Apple Device, but you do need to create an Apple ID. Same as you do for a Google ID and a Microsoft ID. And the service is not crippled without an Apple device. Instead of conjecture, create and Apple ID and try it out.

 

Amazon, for examples, charges pretty well for AWS, and while that isn't a problem, it is definitely more locked in than Apple, who doesn't charge for their services, but, just like Amazon, does require you to have an account.

 

I am really amazed at how differently we see this. You look at something and call it red, I look at the same thing and call it blue. It is the same thing, and the differences in how we see it are only based upon attitude and preferences. Might as well be USB cables.... :)

 

XCode, even the very latest versions, is and always has been free. Apple does charge $99/year if you want to put developed applications up on the iOS or Mac App stores - a most reasonable cost. But the tools are the same, all you are buying for $99 is access to sell on the app store.

 

Or you can spend $399 and have the right to distribute iOS apps from your own servers. Again, the tools are the exact same.

 

The Microsoft VS Express models are crippled, more or less, and full Visual Studio is about $3K per year. Sufficiently more expensive to warrant thinking thrice before going there. Indeed, it is conjectured that a great number of Microsoft applications are created with pirated development tools. An unsavory thought.

 

In any case, it is useless to argue back and forth, so lets just agree to disagree.

 

-Paul

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think Opera is fringe browser, it has one of the best HTML5 compliances. Or Chrome for that matter either.

 

Yes, "Ignore" went to the login screen, but I didn't find way to create account there. So it is not really available without Apple device? At least not officially.

 

Let's look at:

iCLOUD TERMS AND CONDITIONS

 

  • Find My iPhone / Find My Mac seem to obviously require an Apple device?
  • Find My Friends requires an App from App Store - obviously requires an Apple device?
  • Backup: "Automatic backup is available for iOS devices" - OK, no surprise on this either...
  • Photostream: "My Photo Stream is enabled on your device or computer" would I be surprised for this to require Apple device too?

 

So the service is pretty crippled without an Apple device?

 

 

 

Yeah I don't, but this wasn't about liking. I was trying to objectively view different levels of vendor lock-in in terms of services, software and hardware. From what I can see, Apple is the most lock-in while Google is least, offering wide variety of web-APIs for using their services through different other pieces of software, Microsoft being somewhere in the middle with service-software lock-in but without hardware lock-in.

 

 

 

Last I checked they wanted money for Xcode 4, Xcode 3 was the last I've seen free-as-in-beer.

 

Microsoft's Windows Phone SDK is free in similar way:

Windows Phone Dev Center

 

And they have also Visual Studio Express:

Visual Studio Express 2012 Products | Microsoft Visual Studio

 

Now compare that to Linux. I would like to browse CoreAudio source codes just for fun.

 

 

Browser market share is a funny thing, but I would call a browser with 0.18% of the market share a fringe browser. :)

 

BrowserMarketShare.pdf

 

 

It was not about hardware failure, it was about a software bug. That doesn't go away by replacing. Well, I posted a lengthy explanation on their forum of the problem and how they are supposed to fix it. And later it got fixed, so maybe they figured it out or they were actually reading their forums. But that's not an official issue tracker.

Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC.

Robert A. Heinlein

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We have to disagree here James. First, iCloud is basically free up to some storage limit. (5gb I think) and second, it is a really really cool way to make all your music available remotely.

 

I was able to play a a very large chunk of my music library, while driving cross country, over the sound system in my truck. Easily, reliably, and with no cost. Duh- that is paradigm changing thing, and we are just at the very tip of the start of where it will lead.

 

But mostly, you can simply turn it off if you don't want to use it.

 

I think adjudging it as a "sales tool" is really missing a whole lot of things.

 

-Paul

 

I have over 30GB of music...

 

As an aside, I can do the same cross country thing with my phone hooked up to the sound system with Gizmo, which accesses my music library ON MY PC and not in any cloud over which I have no control and am subject to the financial whims of the 'cloud' provider.

 

Another issue...can you load a 24/96 hi-rez flac file to the iCloud? If not you are simply transfering your lossy MP3 dross offsite...

 

shudder!

I have found you an argument; I am not obliged to find you any understanding – Samuel Johnson

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(grin) Browser market share is a funny thing indeed, but I would call a browser with something like 1.4% of the market a Fringe browser. YMMV. :)

 

I always use products that are the best, usually those are not the most popular ones. I couldn't live without Opera's mouse gestures and sleek&slim&fast performance.

 

In any case, Chrome at 15.42% is third most popular browser, more popular than Firefox and much more popular than Safari.

 

As for the rest, you do not need an Apple Device, but you do need to create an Apple ID. Same as you do for a Google ID and a Microsoft ID. And the service is not crippled without an Apple device. Instead of conjecture, create and Apple ID and try it out.

 

Like this?

icloud-error2.png

Didn't get that far...

 

Amazon, for examples, charges pretty well for AWS, and while that isn't a problem, it is definitely more locked in than Apple, who doesn't charge for their services, but, just like Amazon, does require you to have an account.

 

I don't know about Amazon. But I do know about Google.

 

XCode, even the very latest versions, is and always has been free. Apple does charge $99/year if you want to put developed applications up on the iOS or Mac App stores - a most reasonable cost. But the tools are the same, all you are buying for $99 is access to sell on the app store.

 

Now compare that to developing software for Linux.

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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I have over 30GB of music...

 

As an aside, I can do the same cross country thing with my phone hooked up to the sound system with Gizmo, which accesses my music library ON MY PC and not in any cloud over which I have no control and am subject to the financial whims of the 'cloud' provider.

[/Quote]

Well, sure. You can do it even better with JRemote, which still lets you send the audio over Bluetooth the the truck audio system. Woops -that runs on an iPhones or iPad... :)

 

iTunes Match does something like 25,000 tracks I think. It won't hold my entire collection, but it handles a good solid chunk of it.

 

Another issue...can you load a 24/96 hi-rez flac file to the iCloud? If not you are simply transfering your lossy MP3 dross offsite...

 

shudder!

 

It depends a little on how you want to use it. If you use the iTunes MATCH service, then it won't actually upload your file unless the file is not present on iTunes. Then it will upload it and maintain the format as well as the bit depth and sample rate.

 

Pretty much anything you really want to do, you can find a way to do.

 

But in general, why would you stream hi-res audio to a noisy vehicle on the move? You can if you want to, but it seems like a bit of a waste to me.

Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC.

Robert A. Heinlein

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I have over 30GB of music...

 

As an aside, I can do the same cross country thing with my phone hooked up to the sound system with Gizmo, which accesses my music library ON MY PC and not in any cloud over which I have no control and am subject to the financial whims of the 'cloud' provider.

 

My phone has 64 GB of storage space, appears as normal USB mass storage (so I can copy files back and forth for example from Linux desktop), and plays FLACs. I don't need network to listen lossless music. I guess iCloud serves music as lossy compressed anyway?

 

If I want to listen music from "cloud" I use my Spotify Premium subscription on the phone with maximum bitrate.

 

If I want sound to small travel speakers, I just gently touch the speaker with phone, and the speaker playback gets activated using NFC.

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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I always use products that are the best, usually those are not the most popular ones. I couldn't live without Opera's mouse gestures and sleek&slim&fast performance.

 

In any case, Chrome at 15.42% is third most popular browser, more popular than Firefox and much more popular than Safari.

[/Quote]

I use and like Chrome a lot too. Amazingly - it is built on the Apple Webkit - as are a few other browsers. Oh lets see- where did WebKit come from? That's right! Don Melton - at Apple! (grin - I could not resist that. :) )

 

[/Quote] Use the link I gave you in the previous message instead- works better. : )

 

Like this?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]3383[/ATTACH]

Didn't get that far...

 

 

 

I don't know about Amazon. But I do know about Google.

 

 

 

Now compare that to developing software for Linux.

 

I love UNIX based software development. One of the things that actually makes me fond of Apple is that they dropped all the Pascal based ROM stuff and moved to a Unix based environment. MacOS is Unix. :)

 

Linux is a really fun environment too - no fooling on that.

 

-Paul

Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC.

Robert A. Heinlein

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I use and like Chrome a lot too. Amazingly - it is built on the Apple Webkit - as are a few other browsers. Oh lets see- where did WebKit come from? That's right! Don Melton - at Apple! (grin - I could not resist that. :) )

 

Yes, it's built on WebKit, but not *Apple* WebKit. WebKit is an open source project.

 

And no, WebKit came from Linux desktop environment called KDE and it's Konqueror -browser. I do still remember those days.

"WebKit’s HTML and JavaScript code originally began as a fork of the KHTML and KJS libraries from KDE,[3] and has now been further developed by individuals from KDE, Apple Inc., Nokia, Google, Bitstream, RIM, Igalia, and others."

"The code that would become WebKit began in 1998 as the KDE’s HTML layout engine KHTML and KDE’s JavaScript engine (KJS)."

WebKit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

 

I love UNIX based software development. One of the things that actually makes me fond of Apple is that they dropped all the Pascal based ROM stuff and moved to a Unix based environment. MacOS is Unix. :)

 

Just that my code written to utilize most of the IEEE 1003.1-2008 standard (some call it UNIX, although it's POSIX) doesn't compile on OS X. But it does compile on Linux. OS X misses out almost all the parts that have been defined as non-mandatory for compliance. While Linux support practically each and every optional feature.

 

And for many parts OS X supports only old features that have been deprecated in 2008 standard version and not the "new" replacement at all.

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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Miska:

 

Apart from kernel-level stuff, pretty much everything compiling on linux should compile on OS X. Here are some details I wrote up when I was less drugged up and incapacitated. Briefly, you can install the same Xwindows, compiler sets, and even a debian-based package management system. This is the main reason I use OS X. (Otherwise it would be linux for work.)

 

Quick Start - OS X Scientific Computing

 

It is probably closest to freeBSD, fwiw.

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Apart from kernel-level stuff, pretty much everything compiling on linux should compile on OS X.

 

For example clock_gettime() or bunch of the clocks specified for it in POSIX was missing. gettimeofday() is there, but it's broken because it gets screwed up by NTP or system clock modifications, and 1003.1-2008 says:

"Applications should use the clock_gettime() function instead of the obsolescent gettimeofday() function."

 

Lot of the advanced threading, synchronization and IPC stuff was missing.

 

All of the features I have that are tagged as "REALTIME" in 1003.1 are missing.

 

A while ago I just for fun checked out my sources and started compiling from the first "basic stuff" -library. I spent an entire evening putting in ugly workarounds for all the missing things before I got fed up and deleted all the sources.

 

Most of the stuff builds just fine on Solaris too.

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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Yes, it's built on WebKit, but not *Apple* WebKit. WebKit is an open source project.

 

And no, WebKit came from Linux desktop environment called KDE and it's Konqueror -browser. I do still remember those days.

"WebKit’s HTML and JavaScript code originally began as a fork of the KHTML and KJS libraries from KDE,[3] and has now been further developed by individuals from KDE, Apple Inc., Nokia, Google, Bitstream, RIM, Igalia, and others."

"The code that would become WebKit began in 1998 as the KDE’s HTML layout engine KHTML and KDE’s JavaScript engine (KJS)."

WebKit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

 

Yes, Webkit came from Apple. Read the next paragraph, where it tells you the Webkit project was stated by Don Melton, at Apple, in 1991. :)

 

 

Just that my code written to utilize most of the IEEE 1003.1-2008 standard (some call it UNIX, although it's POSIX) doesn't compile on OS X. But it does compile on Linux. OS X misses out almost all the parts that have been defined as non-mandatory for compliance. While Linux support practically each and every optional feature.

 

And for many parts OS X supports only old features that have been deprecated in 2008 standard version and not the "new" replacement at all.

 

Linux is it's own standard. MacOS is BSD based, not UNIX SV (AT&T) based, even though the two branches were grudgingly merged in the late 1980s. It really depends upon where you come from. I learned UNIX in a BSD environment (Think PDP and VAX) so MacOS feels far more compliant to me than does Linux. Don't get me wrong, I actually love Linux, but it is weird, in a lot of ways.

 

Pretty much anything I have around that is Posix compliant will compile fine on MacOS, with less adjustment than compiling it on Solaris. AIX on the other paw, wen the Linux route and porting between AIX and Linux is child's play.

 

Given that, I run Linux on Mainframes. Real mainframes - the kinds that have a "z" in front of their names these days. :)

 

-Paul

Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC.

Robert A. Heinlein

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I hate to say it, but did you bother to install the GCC libraries? The stuff you are talking about is mostly implemented in gcc, even on Solaris and Linux.

 

A great deal of the "missing" stuff in in there. As of Xcode 4.3, I think you have to install the command line tools manually. There is also a separate download and installer for the gcc stuff here.

 

Yep, you will need a free Apple ID to download it.

 

Yours,

-Paul

 

As I said earlier,

 

For example clock_gettime() or bunch of the clocks specified for it in POSIX was missing. gettimeofday() is there, but it's broken because it gets screwed up by NTP or system clock modifications, and 1003.1-2008 says:

"Applications should use the clock_gettime() function instead of the obsolescent gettimeofday() function."

 

Lot of the advanced threading, synchronization and IPC stuff was missing.

 

All of the features I have that are tagged as "REALTIME" in 1003.1 are missing.

 

A while ago I just for fun checked out my sources and started compiling from the first "basic stuff" -library. I spent an entire evening putting in ugly workarounds for all the missing things before I got fed up and deleted all the sources.

 

Most of the stuff builds just fine on Solaris too.

Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC.

Robert A. Heinlein

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