Gapless DLNA/UPnP players?

[13elvis247]

The new Akurate DSM has what you are looking for as far as preamp functionality.

 

Cheers - i did very much want the DSM, but its expensive!

 

If i traded in the DS, i would still have to find another £2500 extra.

 

Current plan is to try the Primare Pre32 with MM30 [suggested by Eloise i think on here], which fingers crossed should give me the pre amp inputs i need for Oppo & SKY audio, with decent volume control, streaming from NAS and hopefully good software!

 

No extra cash required, just sell the Linn Don't get me wrong i love it, just need inputs now i have AV & Hifi in same room not split

 

Mind you will still probably think i've saved £2500 so may as well get that Isotek Aquaris & HiFi Racks Podium XL with it....!!!

[realhifi]

Cheers - i did very much want the DSM, but its expensive!

 

If i traded in the DS, i would still have to find another £2500 extra.

 

Current plan is to try the Primare Pre32 with MM30 [suggested by Eloise i think on here], which fingers crossed should give me the pre amp inputs i need for Oppo & SKY audio, with decent volume control, streaming from NAS and hopefully good software!

 

No extra cash required, just sell the Linn Don't get me wrong i love it, just need inputs now i have AV & Hifi in same room not split

 

Mind you will still probably think i've saved £2500 so may as well get that Isotek Aquaris & HiFi Racks Podium XL with it....!!!

 

The Pre32 is a wonderful piece. What it gives up to the Linn is in the area you are sensitive to, the software. The Linn software is ahead of just about anyones right now, but as in all things digital, Primare could very well have some new app right around the corner . Plug Player also works fine with the Primare although not as slick as Kinsky with the Linn DS series. The Primare also does not have any HDMI inputs or outputs if that is of any concern to you. What it does have that the Linn does not, is a very good USB input so if that may be important to you down the road you may want to factor that into your decision. As an aside, the volume control works on the iPad app only when the Media board is selected. Meaning that you need to use a good old fashioned remote control when in the other inputs for volume adjustment.

 

Have you thought of using the new Majik DSM and turning amp section off so you can use it as a preamp?

[13elvis247]

The Pre32 is a wonderful piece. What it gives up to the Linn is in the area you are sensitive to, the software. The Linn software is ahead of just about anyones right now, but as in all things digital, Primare could very well have some new app right around the corner . Plug Player also works fine with the Primare although not as slick as Kinsky with the Linn DS series. The Primare also does not have any HDMI inputs or outputs if that is of any concern to you. What it does have that the Linn does not, is a very good USB input so if that may be important to you down the road you may want to factor that into your decision. As an aside, the volume control works on the iPad app only when the Media board is selected. Meaning that you need to use a good old fashioned remote control when in the other inputs for volume adjustment.

 

Have you thought of using the new Majik DSM and turning amp section off so you can use it as a preamp?

 

Thanks David.....

 

Sounds like you have listened to the Pre32 and were quite impressed? Any particular impression on its overall sound type/style, i haven't heard any Primare kit as yet.

 

Have you seen the Primare App, and thats what you were comparing to Kinsky, or was it just with a generic app at the time? I fully expect that whichever way i turn the software will fall short of Linn at least in the short term - i've been spoilt!

 

Has anyone used the MIND software from Moon incidentally?

 

I could handle the volume control issues that wouldn't bother me too much. Originally i liked the functionality of having the HDMI in the Linn DSM as i was combining the two systems so it would be a nice one box set-up, however i can deal without that as i now have SKY going into HDMI Back on Oppo 103 for upscaling direct into TV - a bit awkward but it does make a difference to the SKY picture and therefore would be able to get the 2.1 Genelec audio for SKY [optical] & Oppo [co-ax] out of Oppo to Pre32 [or what was the PWD II, now returned]

 

Hadn't thought of the Majik DSM to be honest, i guess mainly as it was one back down from the Akurate, plus i didn't want to be paying for amplification that i wasn't using - also looking now, no XLR out for direct to active Genelecs.

 

I guess the Pre 32 made sense because what i was actually looking for was pre-amp control for multiple inputs, but to include 24/192 streaming, so it ticked all the boxes. The PWD II was a DAC that happened to have Pre functions rather than the other way round. The new Naim Pre offers the same as the Primare but no XLR.

 

Anyone know of a Pre with streaming capabilities out, or due out soon to catch up with Primare/Naim, but will have XLR outs? Seems Primare is alone for now, there must be others coming....!!??

 

Cheers

[realhifi]

Thanks David.....

 

Any particular impression on its overall sound type/style, i haven't heard any Primare kit as yet.

 

Cheers

 

Gorgeous. Natural, detailed, wide open.

One of the best systems I ever heard included a Primare Pre/Pro in the loop and it was an AMAZINGLY beautiful sounding system. The Pre32 follows that tradition admirably. If it has the functionality you are looking for I wouldn't hesitate to give it a strong recommendation.

[Audio_ELF]

I don't know of their range, but maybe worth looking at what T+A have to offer...

[Mike48]

I have a Linn Akurate DS with Kinsky, but wanted pre amp function for other connections, so went to exchange for a PWD II. The PWD II on the CASH list does indeed sound amazing, when it works and you can get i to play music! Certainly not gapless and more than a struggle to get it to play anything through EMM, which quite frankly is a hideous piece of software. It actually worked better with Kinsky running my Asset UPnP server than EMM, though it didn't give all functions and would only play individual tracks, no album play - but at least it made a sound, it was that bad this was a better resort! After a couple of weeks i gave up, its going back and the Linn remains in place. The brits have it at a canter! Linn i think has nailed it the best i have seen to date as far as soft/hardware goes for streaming. Good luck!

Thanks. If you still want to try the PWD, try UPnPlay as a control point. I find it better featured than Kinsky. I would also recommend MinimServer, but the current version has trouble with special characters in music filenames. We are waiting for a fix from the author.

[realhifi]

Thanks. If you still want to try the PWD, try UPnPlay as a control point. I find it better featured than Kinsky. I would also recommend MinimServer, but the current version has trouble with special characters in music filenames. We are waiting for a fix from the author.

 

Is that a control point for iPad? I don't see it in the App Store. Or is it software for the computer side of he chain?

[Mike48]

Is that a control point for iPad? I don't see it in the App Store. Or is it software for the computer side of he chain?

Oh, sorry! UPnPlay is for Android. MinimServer is available on quite a few platforms, including several models of NAS. Once it's fixed, I would recommend it. It uses much more tagging information to sort and search your music than any other DLNA server I've tried. Especially for those of us interested in classical music, that makes it easier to browse what you're interested in.

[Mike48]

Ouch -- that should be "BUG elsewhere"!

 

I said above that MinimServer had a problem serving file names with apostrophes. Today, I remembered that is not correct. Minim works fine with most UPnP renderers, regardless of file names. However, when Minim is used to send music to the PS Audio DAC, filenames with special characters are not played. The Minim author advises that this is a problem in the way PS Audio has implemented the UPnP standard.

 

The summary is, if you are not using a PS Audio DAC, you might want to try Minim, especially if you are interested in classical music. I found it a big improvement over other servers I've tried.

[Mike48]

I don't know of their range, but maybe worth looking at what T+A have to offer...

Thanks. They have a great reputation.

[wappinghigh]

Can I re-open this thread to include available Gapless UPnP multichannel streamer/player/HT receivers?...

 

Are there any? The Arcam's? Pioneer? Thanks

[JMotzi]

This looks like an interesting product. If it works, it's exactly what I have been looking for. Sort of a Bryston BDP-1 that works with streaming and DLNA. Thanks! I had not heard of Sonore before.

 

The Rendu is quite nice. I have one and it does gapless nicely with FLAC and DSD (the only two formats I use). I use JRiver to drive it.

 

JM

[YashN]

I was experimenting with Rune Audio, a Linux distribution for audio for my Raspberry Pi, and judging from the Configuration menu, it can do gapless for MP3 (not sure about other formats), and it can also do DLNA/UPnP.

 

Haven't been able to go much further with it as I couldn't get it to access my Mac OS X samba share of the audio file.

[Cebolla]

The Rendu is quite nice. I have one and it does gapless nicely with FLAC and DSD (the only two formats I use). I use JRiver to drive it.

 

JM

I was experimenting with Rune Audio, a Linux distribution for audio for my Raspberry Pi, and judging from the Configuration menu, it can do gapless for MP3 (not sure about other formats), and it can also do DLNA/UPnP.

 

Haven't been able to go much further with it as I couldn't get it to access my Mac OS X samba share of the audio file.

People, don't know why this ancient thread has been resurrected. Certainly the current generation of UPnP/DLNA supporting network audio players do gapless playback, so is a non-issue.

[Mike48]

People, don't know why this ancient thread has been resurrected. Certainly the current generation of UPnP/DLNA supporting network audio players do gapless playback, so is a non-issue.

 

Yeah, you would think so, but AFAIK, PS Audio is STILL selling their Bridge that doesn't do gapless. Even worse, TAS is recommending it as an Editor's Choice "network server." This situation is really disgraceful: a manufacturer's selling a broken product and not fixing it for year after year, and a leading "review" publication overlooking this fundamental flaw for the entire time. Aren't the magazines supposed to help the consumers? -- and not just be shills for the industry?

 

You'd have to pull out my fingernails to get me to buy another PS Audio product.

[wappinghigh]

Yep. Gapless is *not* a given standard.

 

That's the problem.

[Paul R]

People, don't know why this ancient thread has been resurrected. Certainly the current generation of UPnP/DLNA supporting network audio players do gapless playback, so is a non-issue.

 

Not all, or even most of them I am afraid. Especially the ones new potential audiophiles are likely to encounter, such as the DLNA servers in their AVRs, Soundbars, and Televisions.

 

I am retesting the Onyko NR636 AVR right now, and the sound has greatly improved. However, the DLNA server, while usable, sounds like crap. And is to gapless with anything other than FLAC or MP3s, neither of which feature a large presence in my collection. It is so stupid.

 

I tested a much much more expensive (i.e. $5400) AV Prepro last week, and though it sounded wonderful (or my mono block amps did...) it also had the gapless problem.

 

Heck, even "audiophile quality" players like Amarra can't just play an album gaplessly, you must take extra steps that are as annoying as having to flip an album in the middle of a performance. Gapless playback is something that iTunes, JRMC, and Audirvana+ do without any extra effort, and they do it perfectly too.

 

-Paul

[Cebolla]

People, don't know why this ancient thread has been resurrected. Certainly the current generation of UPnP/DLNA supporting network audio players do gapless playback, so is a non-issue.

Not all, or even most of them I am afraid. Especially the ones new potential audiophiles are likely to encounter, such as the DLNA servers in their AVRs, Soundbars, and Televisions.

I was talking specifically about network audio players, ie, the dedicated purpose built stereo 'hi-fi' separate player, the modern equivalent of the cd player separate, so more in keeping with the scope of this thread, rather than your suggestion of multipurpose AVRs, soundbars, TVs, etc.

 

So "audiophile quality" devices like the Auralic Aries, Sonore Rendu and yes even hardware players from more mainstream manufacturers such as Pioneer N50A & N70A, Marantz NA8005, etc. Note, these are later generation/ up to date devices and certainly support gapless, unlike those dreadful earlier first attempts - which some are still shamelessly promoting & selling, as has been mentioned in the some of the above posts.

 

 

Heck, even "audiophile quality" players like Amarra can't just play an album gaplessly, you must take extra steps that are as annoying as having to flip an album in the middle of a performance. Gapless playback is something that iTunes, JRMC, and Audirvana+ do without any extra effort, and they do it perfectly too.

Well, no point really comparing software players with hardware ones - turnround time & ability to correct faults so so much better with software. It's the risk that some think is worth taking when buying a purpose built box, as they'd rather that than the incovenience of 'having' to use a computer and 'mess around' with software. Incidentally, none of those software players apart from JRMC supports UPnP/DLNA, so you're mostly out of scope again as far as this (old) thread is concerned, I'm afraid.

 

John

[Paul R]

I was talking specifically about network audio players, ie, the dedicated purpose built stereo 'hi-fi' separate player, the modern equivalent of the cd player separate, so more in keeping with the scope of this thread, rather than your suggestion of multipurpose AVRs, soundbars, TVs, etc.

 

So "audiophile quality" devices like the Auralic Aries, Sonore Rendu and yes even hardware players from more mainstream manufacturers such as Pioneer N50A & N70A, Marantz NA8005, etc. Note, these are later generation/ up to date devices and certainly support gapless, unlike those dreadful earlier first attempts - which some are still shamelessly promoting & selling, as has been posted by others.

 

 

Well, no point really comparing software players with hardware ones - turnround time & ability to correct faults so so much better with software. It's the risk that some think is worth taking when buying a purpose built box, as they'd rather that than the incovenience of 'having' to use a computer and 'mess around' with software. Incidentally, none of those software players apart from JRMC supports UPnP/DLNA, so you're mostly out of scope again as far as this (old) thread is concerned, I'm afraid.

 

John

 

Hi John -

 

I honestly don't think the hardware players have any edge software wise over the software players. Hardware is hardware, and the software running on them isn't all that different regardless of the marketing speak.

 

As for people using DLNA, it has a terrible reputation because of the awful sound on most of the devices that support it. And the scope is that if software players cannot be expected to get it right, why would hardware players be expected to?

 

There are exceptions to every rule of course, but I just don't think that DLNA is ready for primetime yet...

 

 

-Paul

[Cebolla]

Well that's the fundamental problem with DLNA. A certificate that anyone can obtain (and sell their product with), once the readies are handed over, for complying with a very small set of quality features derived from the full UPnP spec. What's even more unbelievable is that most of those DLNA tick boxes are optional anyway and gapless support, which has always been specified by UPnP, is still out of its scope.

 

It's why I tend to use the term 'UPnP/DLNA' in conversation, or just 'UPnP' on its own, rather than the embarrassment that is 'DLNA'.

[Distinctive]

Gapless is a true nightmare in streaming judging from how easy this is handled in a CD player.

I guess this dialogue that me and Cebolla had a few months back may clarify a few things in this respect:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f22-networking-networked-audio-and-streaming/auralic-lightning-ds-app-software-impressions-and-information-21262/index5.html#post340177

[Paul R]

Well that's the fundamental problem with DLNA. A certificate that anyone can obtain (and sell their product with), once the readies are handed over, for complying with a very small set of quality features derived from the full UPnP spec. What's even more unbelievable is that most of those DLNA tick boxes are optional anyway and gapless support, which has always been specified by UPnP, is still out of its scope.

 

It's why I tend to use the term 'UPnP/DLNA' in conversation, or just 'UPnP' on its own, rather than the embarrassment that is 'DLNA'.

 

Exactly, and why Sonore and Auralic, among others, are to be treasured and congratulated for doing things right.

[Rexp]

Any updates as to cheap streamers that do gapless? Thanks! 

[jacobacci]

1 hour ago, Rexp said:

Any updates as to cheap streamers that do gapless?

 

Depending on what price level of cheap you are looking for, there are a number of options.

USB output: Raspberry Pi4, Allo USBrige Sig, Odroid C2, ProJect StreamBox S2 Ultra

SPDIF Output: Raspberry with hifiberry digi+, Allo digione Signature, Pi2AES

Throw Volumio on them and you have a good and cheap streamer that does gapless, Qobuz, Tidal

 

[DuckToller]

2 hours ago, Rexp said:

Any updates as to cheap streamers that do gapless? Thanks! 

PiCorePlayer 5.0 with LMS 9.2, no extra fee for Qobuz/Tidal plugins, DSD256 possible.