USB cable comparisons

[jabbr]

10 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Alex won't be allowed to talk about his non scientific appeals to authority in the Objective-Fi area. 

 

He wasn't included in the group of people who endlessly harass subjectivists when they plead to be respectfully ignored. 

 

Agreed, and a good bit of fun!

[mansr]

18 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Alex won't be allowed to talk about his non scientific appeals to authority in the Objective-Fi area. 

 

He wasn't included in the group of people who endlessly harass subjectivists when they plead to be respectfully ignored. 

Are you seriously saying Alex isn't part of the "people who can't have a civil conversation" group?

[jabbr]

2 minutes ago, mansr said:

Are you seriously saying Alex isn't part of the "people who can't have a civil conversation" group?

 

He is much more humorous than you .,. you need a better stand up routine  

[Ralf11]

actually, Alex can - but the duty cycle is only about 20%

[Kimo]

7 hours ago, manueljenkin said:

Thank you. I was torn up if I should get the higher length one assuming velocity factor*length plays any serious role, but I guess the factors are well over that (they may still have a role albeit minor). I think I'll try to import the chord silverwire (also thinking of the other cable someone recommended here, forgot its name).

 

The bass difference is super easy to spot in my headphone since it's quite a tactile system and changing the cable removed the tactility altogether. The treble is hard to describe but yeah it's kinda lighter the way you say, but I also feel a tizz in my system when the music has any high passed content (which means 90% of the music I listen 👹).

 

I altered my testing a bit so that I can compare on the fly.  I compared the AP files played through Sony using Belden 1694a and Apogee Wyde Eye coaxial cables with the USB output from the Innuos.  This way I can instantly switch between sources.  First I compared the files with the Belkin Gold, and everything sounded very similar, though the Belkin was stronger in the bass.  I then substituted the Supra for the Belkin and compared the files again.  

 

No doubt about it, the Supra is the brightest of the bunch, and I am not really sure it is any cleaner or more detailed.  Just brighter, though not really too harsh, at least through the Raal tweeters in the monitors.

 

I think I am going to stick with the Belkin Gold for USB, and the Belden 1694a for coaxial.  Apparently, I am becoming anti-audiophile cable, but not because they don't sound different.  

 

 

 

[manueljenkin]

2 hours ago, fas42 said:

 

What the supposedly scientific crowd can't seem to handle, is that the length of the cable is relevant because the change in sound may be caused by some parasitic characteristic of that link which is variable per the length - it's part of, "sometimes things aren't as simple as you would like them to be" nature of the real world ...

Some rudimentary calculations.

 

For a 500MHz wave the pulse duration is about 2ns. For a 1meter cable with velocity factor 1, the time delay is about 3.33ns which is over 1.6x the clock cycle. This will start to compound over higher distances or different velocity factor.

 

Considering USB protocol is not bi directional, and the fact that the slave does have to communicate back certain things (I've seen this in wireshark), it's not out if possibility things could have an impact. After all, the cpu jitter also adds up (think in terms of the things that gave way to spectre and meltdown).

[plissken]

19 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Alex won't be allowed to talk about his non scientific appeals to authority in the Objective-Fi area. 

 

He wasn't included in the group of people who endlessly harass subjectivists when they plead to be respectfully ignored. 

 

I'd like to point out the only headbutting I've had with subjective folk, in a decent 1/2 year or so, has mainly been in threads I've created. Some other in threads they didn't create.

 

From my POV, and I'm only speaking for myself, I'm not harassing by wanting to have a technical discussion.  I'm not harassing by asking for some de-biased evaluation.

 

I haven't jumped into USB cable threads, Power Cable threads etc...

[The Computer Audiophile]

3 minutes ago, plissken said:

 

I'd like to point out the only headbutting I've had with subjective folk, in a decent 1/2 year or so, has mainly been in threads I've created. Some other in threads they didn't create.

 

From my POV, and I'm only speaking for myself, I'm not harassing by wanting to have a technical discussion.  I'm not harassing by asking for some de-biased evaluation.

 

I haven't jumped into USB cable threads, Power Cable threads etc...

I'd say it isn't possible to be an offender in one's own thread. The OP owns the space for all intents and purposes. 

[thyname]

A quick appreciative note to @vortecjr here for their (flying under radar) excellent USB cable (Sonore by Cardas):

 

http://sonore.us/USB.html

 

It performs very well in my system. To my ears the Sonore by Cardas USB cable is much better sounding than Cardas' own dual run USB cable that I have also owned in my system

[manueljenkin]

I think I have spent enough time evaluating the supra usb cable, trying through different music player softwares. Right now I'm using wtfplay. These are general observations of the sound from supra on my Apogee groove.

 

1. The level of detail is very good, though the bass is a bit masked. The bootleggish bass I got when using winyl on windows has reduced in wtfplay but it's still there to some extent.

 

2. There is some sine wave ish prescence between 500hz regions, easily audible in flutes, and shouty voices. They shout more than they should.

 

3. Both the above stem from one or more common aberration, and the effect is there till treble range. They sound clear but not in a natural way, I cannot say bright, but rather light and a tiny bit shouty. Stereo separation feels wider than they should for normal music and binaural starts to suffer a little, though the effect is less annoying when on wtfplay.

 

I'll be getting the USPCB soon (ordered) and will let you know if my opinion on supra stays the same.

[manueljenkin]

USPCB arrived today. This cable is wicked fast. I'm hearing buffer overflow issues. Much more transparent and harshness free than supra, but detail depends on how the source functions. Now I'm 100% sure packet loss need not be super audible pops and clicks. It can be subtle and graceful.

 

I'm running a surface book, and I use wtfplay OS for my music playback. Here are my observations

 

Started off feeling that something was truncated off and dark with the typical 16 bit 44.1khz Redbook flac material. Changed buffer from the default 2048 x 2 to 1024 x 2 and it worked much better.

 

Then I played "purple rain" (a higher resolution recording). Huge buffer overrun in the default 2048 x 2. It was literally stuttering. Purple rain started playing fine after changing buffer to 64 * 8. Later I realized this overrun is so audible only because of the period count =2. Changed it to 4, with default period size of 2048 frames and it played without super audible stutter.

 

Also heard minor aberrations in other songs with default settings. "Mausam and escape", in Redbook cd format, there's a quick series of drum hits at the left side around 1 minute mark. It sounded quantized. Like I can hear the sample pulses (part of what makes the full sound) instead of the reconstructed sound.

 

Went to my computer uefi, disabled simultaneous multithreading. Purple rain played fine with default settings. But I didn't like the sound in this settings. Sounded too smoothed off.

 

Thought I was screwed. Realized I have one more control. Changed system priority from 50 to 30 in the command line, no changes to buffer. Everything else fixed, and no system tweaks as well (hyperthreading enabled again). Sounds fantastic, still got scope to tweak. Funky thing doesn't have a sound of its own (unlike the other cables I've tried that impart a specific character). The cable is super fast, I could probably tweak it to do anything which is a nice thing. But it's also sensitive and can show flaws without masking. I doubt there is any burn in period, but feel free to let me know of the designer officially confirmed any such thing.

[CheapSplurge]

Need a usb a to b for external dac. 300usd is max budget. I don't mind buying used. 

I want more resolution and clarity 

[AnotherSpin]

I would suggest Inakustik Reference USB. It is slightly above your budget, but maybe you will find used. 

[barrows]

Has anyone tried the Black Cat Digit USB cable?  This one uses a different than standard geometry, with an arrangement of two coax style cables for the data lines (making each data line individually shielded) while still maintaining the correct impedance.  Chris S. has always been a very good designer when it comes to high speed digital cables.  This design also shares some similarities with Nordost's insanely expensive Valhalla 2 USB cable, which is really good, but not really affordable to most!

 

As to the Inakustik Referenz, it is truly excellent if one is looking for maximum resolution-but beware, it is not suitable for a system which leans towards the bright side of the tonal spectrum-I would not say the Inakustik itself is bright, but it will not hide any problems in the system. 

[AnotherSpin]

2 hours ago, barrows said:

Has anyone tried the Black Cat Digit USB cable?  This one uses a different than standard geometry, with an arrangement of two coax style cables for the data lines (making each data line individually shielded) while still maintaining the correct impedance.  Chris S. has always been a very good designer when it comes to high speed digital cables.  This design also shares some similarities with Nordost's insanely expensive Valhalla 2 USB cable, which is really good, but not really affordable to most!

 

As to the Inakustik Referenz, it is truly excellent if one is looking for maximum resolution-but beware, it is not suitable for a system which leans towards the bright side of the tonal spectrum-I would not say the Inakustik itself is bright, but it will not hide any problems in the system. 

 

After burn-in time Inakustik Reference USB sounds much more neutral but revealing at the same time. It would be not so forgiving for some less than excellent recordings, what more than compensates with musicality and smoothness it brings.

[barrows]

I have an Inakustik Referenz here and am quite familiar with how it sounds.  I agree that it is about as "neutral" as one can get.  My warning was aimed at those whose systems might be even a little on the lean/bright side: i do not think this cable would be pleasing in such a system.

 

No one out there with experience with the Black Cat Digit USB?  I am curious about it.

[thyname]

I must have tried over 25 USB cables over the years. Yes, that’s fun.

 

My top picks:

 

Synergistic Research Reference X

 

Kimber Kable Select (Ag or HB)

 

Sonore by Cardas

 

 Budget: Triode Wire Labs (dual conductor split power & data)

[AnotherSpin]

8 hours ago, barrows said:

I have an Inakustik Referenz here and am quite familiar with how it sounds.  I agree that it is about as "neutral" as one can get.  My warning was aimed at those whose systems might be even a little on the lean/bright side: i do not think this cable would be pleasing in such a system.

 

No one out there with experience with the Black Cat Digit USB?  I am curious about it.

 

I hear you and understand what you're trying to tell pretty well, I believe. I just can not agree Inakustik Reference doesn't fit for bright systems, because: a) its sound character changes after some time; b) it gives so much musical coherent sound it easily compensates possible system brightness, imho.

[OldBigEars]

On 3/6/2020 at 8:10 AM, manueljenkin said:

USPCB arrived today. This cable is wicked fast. I'm hearing buffer overflow issues. Much more transparent and harshness free than supra, but detail depends on how the source functions. Now I'm 100% sure packet loss need not be super audible pops and clicks. It can be subtle and graceful.

 

I'm running a surface book, and I use wtfplay OS for my music playback. Here are my observations

 

Started off feeling that something was truncated off and dark with the typical 16 bit 44.1khz Redbook flac material. Changed buffer from the default 2048 x 2 to 1024 x 2 and it worked much better.

 

Then I played "purple rain" (a higher resolution recording). Huge buffer overrun in the default 2048 x 2. It was literally stuttering. Purple rain started playing fine after changing buffer to 64 * 8. Later I realized this overrun is so audible only because of the period count =2. Changed it to 4, with default period size of 2048 frames and it played without super audible stutter.

 

Also heard minor aberrations in other songs with default settings. "Mausam and escape", in Redbook cd format, there's a quick series of drum hits at the left side around 1 minute mark. It sounded quantized. Like I can hear the sample pulses (part of what makes the full sound) instead of the reconstructed sound.

 

Went to my computer uefi, disabled simultaneous multithreading. Purple rain played fine with default settings. But I didn't like the sound in this settings. Sounded too smoothed off.

 

Thought I was screwed. Realized I have one more control. Changed system priority from 50 to 30 in the command line, no changes to buffer. Everything else fixed, and no system tweaks as well (hyperthreading enabled again). Sounds fantastic, still got scope to tweak. Funky thing doesn't have a sound of its own (unlike the other cables I've tried that impart a specific character). The cable is super fast, I could probably tweak it to do anything which is a nice thing. But it's also sensitive and can show flaws without masking. I doubt there is any burn in period, but feel free to let me know of the designer officially confirmed any such thing.

 

 

I also use one of these USPCB connection devices.  I've never reached a conclusion as to whether or not it actually improves or degrades the sound on my system vs a stock cord.  I just use it for space saving, neatness and low cost (compared with a fancy cable).  I've never been able to move the tiny, little switch that apparently turns the VBUS on/off.  I can't even tell for sure what position it's in.  Does that matter and why would anyone want to turn it on/off?

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, OldBigEars said:

I've never been able to move the tiny, little switch that apparently turns the VBUS on/off.  I can't even tell for sure what position it's in.  Does that matter and why would anyone want to turn it on/off?

 

Regarding the VBUS switch on UpTone USPCB A>B Adapters:

It should stay in the ON position (that is the downward position of the tiny white switch—where it then forms a line with the two white painted dots on either side).  

 

It is a bit of a joke—and really only useful for use in determining if you DAC needs VBUS.  If it does, then you leave the switch on; If it does not use VBUS then well, what’s the point of tuning it off?  It is not like the 5V goes anywhere.  You are not even keeping it off a long USB cable (some people like that to reduce capacitive coupling to the data lines). 

Useful as horns on a bull (at least for us)! 

 

That said, if you are able to hear differences between USB cables, then our USPCB Adapter should sure make a nice difference for you. It is a 4-layer impedance-controlled circuit board--designed to preserve the exact signal integrity of whatever you are feeding through it. In other words, unlike all USB cables (which modify SI--that's why you can hear character differences!), a high-speed USB eye-pattern put through a USPCB Adapter will look virtually identical.

There is no cable like no cable; and the USPCB Adapter is not a cable... 

[OldBigEars]

11 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

Regarding the VBUS switch on UpTone USPCB A>B Adapters:

It should stay in the ON position (that is the downward position of the tiny white switch—where it then forms a line with the two white painted dots on either side).  

 

It is a bit of a joke—and really only useful for use in determining if you DAC needs VBUS.  If it does, then you leave the switch on; If it does not use VBUS then well, what’s the point of tuning it off?  It is not like the 5V goes anywhere.  You are not even keeping it off a long USB cable (some people like that to reduce capacitive coupling to the data lines). 

Useful as horns on a bull (at least for us)! 

 

That said, if you are able to hear differences between USB cables, then our USPCB Adapter should sure make a nice difference for you. It is a 4-layer impedance-controlled circuit board--designed to preserve the exact signal integrity of whatever you are feeding through it. In other words, unlike all USB cables (which modify SI--that's why you can hear character differences!), a high-speed USB eye-pattern put through a USPCB Adapter will look virtually identical.

There is no cable like no cable; and the USPCB Adapter is not a cable... 

 

Alex - do you happen to know if a Chord Qutest needs VBUS?

[Superdad]

2 hours ago, OldBigEars said:

Alex - do you happen to know if a Chord Qutest needs VBUS?

 

I think it does. But you you can use the VBuS switch of the USPCB Adapter to find out for sure. 

[ray-dude]

Chord DACs do require Vbus, but only for the USB handshake.  A cool trick with the USPCB (which I adore) is to switch off Vbus to the Chord DAC after the handshake is established (I played with this a bit when I was experimenting with isolation approaches between server and DAC)  Just remember to switch it back on if things seem not to be working later!

 

 

[manueljenkin]

22 hours ago, OldBigEars said:

 

 

I also use one of these USPCB connection devices.  I've never reached a conclusion as to whether or not it actually improves or degrades the sound on my system vs a stock cord.  I just use it for space saving, neatness and low cost (compared with a fancy cable).  I've never been able to move the tiny, little switch that apparently turns the VBUS on/off.  I can't even tell for sure what position it's in.  Does that matter and why would anyone want to turn it on/off?

It connects/disconnects the 5v line from your pc usb port to your dac. If your dac has external power supply, keep the button off, else keep it on.

[OldBigEars]

On 6/27/2020 at 1:51 PM, manueljenkin said:

It connects/disconnects the 5v line from your pc usb port to your dac. If your dac has external power supply, keep the button off, else keep it on.

thats interesting. Sounds like it should turn off.  I’ve tried to move the switch but it’s not an easy task, at least on mine.