USB cable comparisons

[xyzzy1]

I am currently looking for a USB cable that will fit my system, so I'm not looking for "THE BEST" cable, but the one that will work the best according to my ears.

I'd like to discourage those who do not hear differences in USB cables (or all cables) to post on this thread. I understand and respect your opinions and findings, but we'll have to agree to disagree. As human beings we all have different physical abilities. Some can run long stretches, some are fast swimmers, some are lift heavy weights... you get my point. This also applies to the physical part of listening, too. It's also true that we don't have the same experience (and/or training) in processing the information that our brain receives and, of course, this also applies to listening. So please, PLEASE, let's not let this thread become a discussion about placebo effects vs. hearing and listening disabilities, ok?

A few words about myself (for what it's worth): I have studied classical composition at a University level, have worked as a production consultant on a few albums and work with arrangements for voices, brass and orchestra now and then.

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The cables I had the chance to compare were: Resolution Audio Cantata stock USB Cable, AudioQuest Coffee, Wireworld Silver Starlight, Locus Desing Axis and Synergistic Research Basik Active. This is also the sequence in which I listened to them. I will sum up my findings. For those who want are more in-depth description please refer here to my original post in a Brazilian hifi-forum (for those who understand Portuguese or are willing to use Google Translate).

 

The AQ Coffee definitely didn't do it for me, though it was a very noticeable improvement compared to the stock cable. The name is very fitting: in my system it was very energetic, detailed and fast cable. The major problem was with the HF which was slightly veiled and had severe decay issues (almost no decay whatsoever). Timbres also suffered compared to the other cables. The result was a cable that was very detailed, but that didn't create a cohesive sound stage, resulting in a dissected sound. Therefore I had hyper-layering and very good placement on sound stage, but the music didn't mesh.

 

The WW Silver Starlight had all the detail of the Coffee, but with far better decay in the HFs. Timbres were better and LFs were stellar. Sound stage was larger, but had less depth than the Coffee. It bettered the Coffee in all regards except for depth and sounded far more natural.

 

The LD Axis had great LF, but not as good as the Silver Starlight. It had spectacular decay in the HFs, which gave the whole cable a very refined sound. Sound stage was large and spacious. In my system the Axis had good micro-dynamics. The mids, OTOH, were slightly veiled. Higher mids and treble had very good plasticity (for the lack of a better word). Treble is simply SOTA. It's a shame that the mids weren't on par with the HF.

 

The SR Basik Active's first impression was simply holographic. Sound was very, very 3D. Had similar depth of Coffee, but now I had a continuous and coherent sound stage. LFs were better than Axis, but not as detailed as the Silver Starlight. Excellent timbre all around. Treble decay was very good, but not in the same league as the Axis. Fantastic mids. Clear and clean, very musical and with loads of detail. Probably as fast as the Coffee, but without the negatives. The best tonal balance and, by far, the best mids of the group.

 

The best cost/benefit cable of the group was, without doubt, the WW Silver Starlight. The SR Basik Active was my favorite, but I'm very interested in getting to know the Platinum, based on what it's smaller sibling did for my system. The fact that I needed an extra outlet for the Basik doesn't make it very appealing to me.

I hope these comments might help point others into the right direction.

Best regards

André

 

I still haven't stepped into digital whole heartily (analogue vinyl for me).

I read very positive things about the Audioquest jitterbug which can be plugged into the USB port and then you cable plugs into it.

 

If you try this would like to hear your experiences. Its not very expensive.

 

For me, what I read about Meridian MQA looks good. Maybe this will be the tipping point but I have yet to hear it for myself.

[xyzzy1]

Hi xyzzy1,

At the moment I'm happy with the amber REGEN in my chain, although I haven't invested in a alternative power supply for it. I might try to work with other gadgets and I'm not sure that the jitterbug + firefly complement each other, since I don't know much about the latter. I'm still thinking of working on the acoustics of the room, a possible valve in my chain and maybe a speaker upgrade, but if a USB cable and/or gadget shows up here at home I'd probably take the time to compare it to what I have and know.

Best regards

 

For room treatment get as much soft cloth as possible on your walls. Curtains, of course, and decorative rugs or anything else soft to cut down on hard surface reflections.

 

I have my audio system in the basement (man cave) and have made wall panels out of felt material. Basically 20 yds of felt along the wall behind the speaker and the side walls. Great for sound if you have the flexibility.

 

Also, the jitterbug is designed for any USB dac.

[xyzzy1]

2 hours ago, Sal1950 said:

Not just mine, most anyone with any real background in technology. It's this corner of the audiophile market that has made this hobby the laughing stock of the engineering community.

 

Cables—that’s one subject I can’t discuss calmly. Even after all these years, I still fly into a rage when I read “$900 per foot” or “$5200 the pair.” That’s an obscenity, a despicable extortion exploiting the inability of moneyed audiophiles to deal with the laws of physics. The transmission of electrical signals through a wire is governed by resistance, inductance, and capacitance (R, L, and C). That’s all, folks! (At least that’s all at audio frequencies. At radio frequencies the geometry of the cable begins to have certain effects.) An audio signal has no idea whether it is passing through expensive or inexpensive RLC. It retains its purity or impurity regardless. There may be some expensive cables that sound “different” because they have crazy RLC characteristics that cause significant changes in frequency response. That’s what you hear, not the $900 per foot. And what about the wiring inside your loudspeakers, inside your amplifiers, inside your other components? What you don’t see doesn’t count, doesn’t have to be upgraded for megabucks? What about the miles of AC wiring from the power station to your house and inside your walls? Only the six-foot length of the thousand-dollar power cord counts? The lack of common sense in the high-end audio market drives me to despair.

"Peter Aczel"

 

You are correct, its not just yours and it does include everyone with supposed "any real background in technology".

 

I can safely assume one of the following is true for you and the rest of the "any real background in technology" folks you covet as your compatriots.

 

1) You have never tried swapping and listening to cables (interconnect, power, usb, etc) on an entry level or better high-end audio system.

2) You have genetically limited hearing. 

 

If its #2 above for you, oh well... I can't shoot 3 pointers consistently. If it weren't for visual evidence in the NBA I'm sure you would claim no one can consistently shoot 3 pointers. But its obvious, visually, there are quite a few who can. Unfortunately there is no compensation for lesser hearing if you simply can't hear the differences. There are quite a few of us who can.

 

If its #1 then you are, like the rest of your ilk, regurgitating what you read and supports your preexisting view. This is the sad one.

 

Now to type some stuff you will ignore and/or not comprehend...

 

Lets take your simple acceptance of resistance as one attribute to focus on. And here is but one of countless possible scenarios for resistance impacting audio signal quality....

 

So, question for you,  Is resistance of a wire 100% constant through the length and width of a wire? I'll save you hard thought, no it isn't. Metal manufacture always has impurities which is one of the causes of resistance among many. These impurities causing resistance are partial so some electron hit some and others hit others. What happens to electrons as some/all encounter different instances of resistance as they flow through a wire? Electron turbulence (just like water turbulence flowing through rocks). In the worst cases you can see it on an oscilloscope and the wire gets hot. What happens to an audio signal when electrons are jumbled around? The audio signal is compromised. Better wire manufacture tries to minimize impurities.

 

So just one detailed scenario out of many that your lumped "understanding" of the R in RLC doesn't cover.

 

All cables no matter how expensive have some sort of sonic signature. And you are correct that every nanometer of conductive metal makes a difference including the wires going to capacitors/resistors/solder joints etc. Good audio companies work to minimize audio signal compromises in their equipment, cables, etc. But none are perfect and none sound as good as live unamplified music but the quest is to get closer.... For those of us who care.

 

Anyways, enough typing for me.... 

[xyzzy1]

20 hours ago, Sal1950 said:

They hear exactly what they expect to hear.  Deride and refuse to set up bias controlled DBT listening tests, and imagine the most ridiculous of results.

Nothing to be learned there.

Certainly not for you. Any particular reason you keep posting here? Is your “minds made up” life that boring?

[xyzzy1]

13 hours ago, Sal1950 said:

You want to learn about cables, but never at the cost that all of your "minds made up" beliefs might be in error and that you've wasted thousands of dollars. Just keep reinforcing each others expectation bias induced hearing delusions and patting each other on the back for the golden ears you possess and the deep pockets you can use to out spend the next guy.  BLAH,   LOL

There's no path here that will lead to any advancement in audio's SOTA sound.

Ok so why you keep reading and posting on this thread then? Hmm.... me thinks what irks you is hidden in your choice of words "...and the deep pockets you can use to out spend the next guy...".  That's really it, isn't it, no "deep pockets" for you? As I am not aware of any post from you that you've tried cable swaps on an entry level high-end or better audio system have you thought about your own "expectation bias"? On the good advice of others, last reply to you. Suggest you get past your deep angst here and look for your own happy pastures elsewhere. This is not good for your blood pressure / health.

[xyzzy1]

6 hours ago, ALRAINBOW said:

We should not disallow others comments there are many factors to consider how much or any to some. 

Does anyone have an understanding of why usb Cables effect the sound ? 

I can doa few quotes  but it will not matter to most. 

THe source used makes the biggest change and after that most DACs. While there are some exceptions it’s mostly as I say I feel. . Why do I put the source first coz most all DACs  will not Sound best without it. Beyond this is the usb Cables we use. All usb Cables seem to have a sound so to admit this is tough for me and most 

I don’t feel exp Cables are needed always but clearly some made are better for over all sound. 

I kind man who Owns some nice stuff was driven mad with ground isuses. It took me many weeks as I helped him fix his many issues. 

Lastly it was his usb cable to fix. 

I truly feel all of our audio devices need to be electrically isolated  it few do this. 

He ordered a cust usb cable with a power cutter built in and a Recomended usb iso device. 

It was the last step to true happiness. 

Not all have systems that can hear the changes to the levels it may happen. To accuse them is degrading to them and cannot help the Person. 

Laslty are any usb Cables made for us bad. 

Absolutly yes lol I have heard them in my system.  But others love them lol. 

Dont take my comments as trolling it’s. It meant to be. It’s just pure honesty. Tough to swallow 

now the poster who needs to reboot a good idea and of you hear it it’s ok. 

Dont let others make you feel odd. It’s his most try to make me feel as I help them lol. 

The reason why is complex and I am not sure why it’s in yours. 

If you post what your sever is I might be able to explain why.  But do reboot of you feel it does. 

Enjoy 

Regards your:

        Does anyone have an understanding of why usb Cables effect the sound ? 

 

from what I observe I believe digital cables inject noise into the DAC. No cable will improve sound, better cables will only degrade it less. The perfect cable material, I think, would be super conducting. 

 

Noise in cables comes from impurities in the metals causing reflections. From junction points where the cable connects to the jack metal also causing reflections and ringing among many other causes of noise being generated. 

 

There is is no such thing as perfect isolation between components. Noise generated in the cable by poor contacts, reflections, etc is going to get into the dac and into the analog amp in the dac. Better cables have better (purer) materials and better junction points causing less reflection noise that is the cause of electron turbulence.

[xyzzy1]

52 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

No.

 

If the system is galvanically isolated, reclocks, and the myriad of other possible problems have been taken care of... then there should be no differences in SQ among USB cables.

... if you have a mid-fi or worse audio system. If you have a entry level or better high-end audio system one can hear differences from noise caused by the cables themselves and noise they pass thru/distort which can have cumulative/reactionary effects with your other components. As always, we don’t yet have the science to ascertain the causes and symptoms so you have to go by audiblity and pick the best (subjective) that costs the least per what you can afford. There is no such thing as perfect electrical isolation when your audio or digital signal is passed between audio components using electrons. 

 

hey, this guy started it!

[xyzzy1]

25 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

Theories are complicated constructs of hypotheses which have been tested.  So, yes.

 

A pretty smart guy said...

 

In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice they are not. 

[xyzzy1]

5 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

another thread about what?

 

and BTW, I asked a simple question - extenuated verbiage about someone daring to ask a question is the real derailing issue

OK, getting sucked in....

 

Well, it would be about how not to try for new experiences which might lead to new learning and only regurgitate what others who have not tried anything say.

 

A very exciting topic indeed, off you guys go!

 

 

[xyzzy1]

9 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

were these blinded listening tests?

Any chance you and your brethren would actually go out and do your own "blinded listening tests" for once?

How lazy are you guys?

 

 

[xyzzy1]

30 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

@Sal1950

What I meant by this statement:

Some people neglect audible differences between USB cables.

@barrows stated somewhere on this forum that audible differences between a Phasure Lush and an Inakustik Reference USB cable for example are very easy to discern.

So the technical explanation comes later.......

 

Matt

 

Good luck Matt, your responding to someone who can’t tell red from blue without some kind of blind testing. 

[xyzzy1]

4 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

 

He is completely correct.

 

BTW, I prefer slightly warm and pleasing, and use an Audio Research euphonicisor to get it - it also does other things, such as input switching, volume control, sound staging improvements, and (I swear) lends the music a sense of rhythm & pace.

 

As I prefer Budweiser cause it almost tastes like beer and everyone says it’s good and everyone drinks it. Haayuk. 

[xyzzy1]

Xxx

[xyzzy1]

1 hour ago, Kimo said:

I recently set up an Innuos Zenith server and am running it into a Linnenberg Telemann DAC.  Currently, I am using a Belkin Gold USB cable, but am considering an upgrade to an Audioquest Carbon.

 

Is the Carbon worth adding?  I have only heard the Belkin in system.

 

You should try the audioquest carbon cable to see if you can hear a positive difference using music you are very familiar with and would allow you to discern if there is more clarity, previously unheard rhythms from background obscured instruments, dimensionality to the music, etc. Using music you have heard a lot on your system will allow you to hear/discern added or subtracted music reproduction quality.

 

These folks do loaners for a small fee.

https://www.thecableco.com/

 

You don’t mention the rest of your system and honestly, you need an audio system built from components that fall into the high-end category to readily discern differences between cables. I assume you already have a fixation on music where it is a primary activity for you like most audiophiles if you are looking to improve your music reproduction and enjoyment. 

 

[xyzzy1]

2 hours ago, Kimo said:

Rest of the system includes Alta Audio FRM speakers and eventually likely will also include the Linnenberg Widor.  DAC and amp at purported 21 bits of SNR is pretty state of art, so difference should be relatively easy to discern.  My ears and room may be more of a limitation, than the equipment.  

 

I have not heard music being played on these pieces of equipment so unfortunately I’m unable to offer any advice except to experiment. 

 

What I can tell you is don’t underestimate your ears. Lots of folks I know with no high-end experience have heard their favorite songs/music on my high end systems and heard instruments and rhythms and artist techniques they had never heard before even though they’ve heard their favorite songs countless times.

 

If your Alta Audio FRM speakers and Linnenberg Widor dac/amp are good resolving pieces of equpment your favorite songs/music will reveal whether the cables help improve your music reproduction. Go back and forth between the cables and listen for that extra something. On good equipment the differences are often quite obvious. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[xyzzy1]

7 hours ago, Teresa said:

 

Sorry I wasn't more clear in my original post. I don't know what makes an audio component warm or cold, as both types have identical or nearly identical specifications. So what I was saying is both types are accurate, I just prefer warm accuracy over cold accuracy. 

 

I have my favorite recording engineers and want to enjoy their work without any added colorations. With the right equipment there are some very warm, pleasingly realistic audiophile recordings from them.

 

I get rid of bad sounding and overly clinical recordings. Of course, my music collection isn't very large because of how picky I am, however the music I keep and play is thoroughly enjoyable.

 

Teresa,

you are absolutely right and spot on with your note that similar spec equipment from different companies will sound very different. 

 

One must hear equipment to see if you like the sound. The accuracy of sound reproduction by equipment can be gauged by comparing what you hear from equipment with the sound you hear from live unamplified instruments. No piece of equipment as yet reproduces the complete quality of live unamplified instruments so we must make our choices on what sounds closest to us with our own personal tastes and within our budgets. 

 

As a general rule tube equipment produces a warmer sound and solid state a colder sound. There are increasing levels of accuracy (getting closer to the sound we hear from real unamplified instrumentals) as the quality of gear increases. As we get to the best sounding gear the differences between tube and solid state become less dramatic and closer to the real thing.

 

Many posting on this thread have no clue and have never bothered  listening to different gear and regurgitate what they’ve read/heard that confirms their bias that everything sounds the same if the 3 or 4 specs they’ve been brainwashed to believe are the same and cables sound the same. 

 

Always a a pleasure to converse with real audiophiles who know listening is key!

 

 

[xyzzy1]

Hey all, been following this thread for awhile....

 

On cable differences I quickly went to this device 'iFi Audio iDefender3.0 USB Ground Loop Eliminator' because it seemed to me the first act is to eliminate noise from the computer power feeding into the dac. This adapter has a micro usb input which, if plugged in, interrupts the power from the computer and supplies it from your external supply. Using a plugged in external power supply made a huge difference, easy to go back and forth to compare what I heard (plug then unplug). The sound of the music reproduction having an edgy glare was significantly reduced when using the external power supply.

I also tried a switching power supply and a linear power supply. The linear power supply was superior with further glare and noise reduction. Could hear more into soundstage.

My next step was a *doh* realization that I am using an older macbook and have an optical out. Switched over to optical out and it is far superior to usb. This is how I have the hook up now so I am out of the USB world.

 

So if you have an optical out this would seem to be the way to remove computer electrical noise from getting into your dac. If you don't have the optical out as an option I recommend using the 'iFi Audio iDefender3.0 USB Ground Loop Eliminator' with a linear power supply.

 

It would be interesting to hear if USB cables continue to make a sonic difference once this device is in place and bypassing the computer power,

[xyzzy1]

3 hours ago, jon2020 said:

 

Usb implementation for audio has improved by leaps and bounds since your old Mac(no offense intended).

 

Get a used server like the entry model Aurender N100H and you will be amazed by the difference in SQ compared to the optical output from your Mac. 

 

No offense taken and thanks!... I know it and hear it!

I am into high-end audio but not yet ready to lay down this kind of coin for digital when the tech is still evolving so rapidly. Every few months brings on new generation of dacs & streamers at all price points with better sonics than the previous. Though, I have spent well more than twice the original price of this Aurender streamer on my turntable!

For now I need an inexpensive streamer/dac combo that has passable & engaging sound quality while continuing to await the higher priced dac/streamer gear to evolve to a point where 6 months later is not guaranteed obsolescence.

Have been checking the $500 and less price point dacs every year or so. Using the digital coax out from my CD player and listening to the dac would have me returning the dac.

Finally a current generation low priced dac that is not digital grating and fatiguing to listen to.

The iFi Audio iDefender was a noticeable improvement after I started using a usb computer connection. Hence my post here as the iFi Audio iDefender would be a positive sonics move for anyone using a standard mac/pc computer as the streamer.

Someday will be all-in with an investment in digital when it nears or outdoes my turntable. That ain't yet though.

 

[xyzzy1]

Thanks, good write up on your experience with these cables.
I am quite convinced that various usb cables are not improving sound but rather it’s a competition of which usb cable is less destructive with electrical noise being attenuated and added by each cable due construction and flaws along with noise electrical noise coming from the source. Source noise can cause the usb cable to react badly and make the noise worse. 
 

Have you considered trying a jitterbug or an Ifi iodefender with ifi ipower that can replace the source usb power? These helped quite a bit when I was playing with usb cables. 
 

In the end I moved to using an optical cable which was a significant leap forward in sound quality over any usb combination I tried. 

[xyzzy1]

On 2/14/2020 at 7:40 PM, Sal1950 said:

Sorry but the truth has to come to light on occasion.

The popularity of cable snake oil has made a laughing stock of the audiophile community.

A lie repeated often enough still doesn't make it true.

 

 

People who are critically and carefully and repeatedly listening to high end audio equipment can hear that there are differences in cables of all kinds. It takes at least an entry level high end audio system and lots listening to favorite songs. It's then that one can notice the subtle nuances and differences.

 

Expensive is not best and many cheaper cables sound quite good.

 

If you are not sweating to hear every detail in your audio system then, yes, any cable will do.

 

[xyzzy1]

8 hours ago, AnotherSpin said:

 

The better the combination of components in an audio system, the less difference in the "sound" of the cables can be perceived. Conversely, in a random set of poorly matched components, the difference in the "sound" of the cables may be more noticeable.

 

Not at all true in my experience, good audio components of any combination reveals differences in cables.

The better the audio components are the more pronounced are differences that can be heard between cables by a careful well seasoned listener.

[xyzzy1]

7 hours ago, fas42 said:

 

The question is, what you want to listen to: the sound of your system components, or the sound that's on the recordings - for some strange reason for a few, perhaps even a tiny few, the latter is preferable ... 😛.

 

The next step: if you want not to hear any distortion characteristics of your rig, then how do you go about it ... ? That is the difficult exercise in this game, which can become an all consuming activity for those who venture down this particular rabbit hole.

 

the true honest audiophile is listening to music on their expensive audio equipment and trying to get a more intimate experience of the artistry of the musicians.

 

As with any hobby there are plenty of charlatans who buy expensive audio equipment because they can and then listen to vapid pop or the same few tracks because it sounds spectacular and loud. Honest audiophiles thank these folks for helping keep the high end companies alive :-).

 

This same happens with wine where there are plenty of wine snobs who couldn't tell the difference between boxed wine and some fine wine but are wealthy enough to spend insane amounts of money on wines that others report are great. Honest wine lovers probably hate them for jacking up prices.

 

Same for cars, food, or pretty much any hobby venue.

[xyzzy1]

5 hours ago, AnotherSpin said:

 

Again, if the system is right, even the "poor" recordings, such as pre-war archive rarities may sound surprisingly well and lively.

I agree with you on this from my personal experience. I have an audiophile friend who loves music from the 30's 40's. Listening to 78's and older 33's on his high end system can reveal a lot of the artistry and gestalt of the musicians that comes through all the crackling and limited bandwidth.

[xyzzy1]

2 hours ago, luisma said:

Because it is an open discussion, we all have our opinions (you and I included) and both are completely valid

 

Not when the opinion comes from someone with no experience.

 

That is the consistent theme for the audio cable, et al naysayers....   no experience listening to any high end audio.

[xyzzy1]

18 hours ago, fas42 said:

 

Which is slightly different from what I aim for - if you're trying to 'understand' what the musicians are doing, and want to focus very strongly on how they are going about their craft, then it is fair game to distort what you hear - let's say a drummer listens to a track with the intention of picking up precisely what his fellow musician is doing; to do this he may play with DSP to mold the sound, so that the drum kit instruments cut through better - he doesn't want to hear 'accurate' sound; he wants to hear more intensely what he really wants to hear.

 

Personally, I just want to hear what's on the record - get that spot on, and the result is immensely satisfying, IME. Then 'enhancing' the sound for extra oomph is a step that can be taken next, if it really seems worthwhile for a particular recording, is how I see it.

 

 

There is always status in expensive stuff, which usually has the looks to make the impact ... but in audio, that has little chance of guaranteeing an excellent standard of performance ...

 

 

 

On your note on "If you're trying to 'understand' what the musicians are doing...." I think we are saying the same thing and why I used the term "artistry of the musicians" which means anything the musicians (& producers) do I want to hear what they intended including pre and post work to the recorded sound.

 

However, I will add, if I am going to do a critical auditory critique of an audio system or component I will pick recordings which are comprised of sounds that I have a reference for in real life like unamplified human voice and unamplified acoustical instruments.  There are no shortage of natural sounding recordings though they are much harder to come by with more modern music where the panacea now is to distort the voice and instruments and add sonic effects. 

 

So I trust that if an audio system can do well with acoustic sounds it will also do well with effects that have been added. Of course I would also listen to effects laden music, they are fun after all, but would not be a big part my criteria for selecting an audio component.