USB cable comparisons

[lmitche]

Hi Fred:

 

The answers to your questions belong over at the REGEN thread, but I'll address them here since you seem to be following on this one.

 

While it is true that the big chassis with heat sinks for our JS-2 LPS comes to my cost of almost $160 (landed at my door, after complete custom milling and silkscreening), it is a far nicer, precise and flawlessly finished piece than anything I could source from China. And USA costs for a comparable custom chassis in aluminum would be through the roof for our quantities. (There is a reason Schiit goes with painted, bent steel chassis, and their high volume plays into that).

 

As for the little extruded aluminum case for the REGEN, my Japanese supplier is entirely competitive with China--and again with a nicer part and complete milling and silkscreening with zero defects. And the fast service and fair prices at 100-500 pieces is impressive. Trust me, I literally spent days contacting vendors on three continents (at least those who had something decent to offer).

 

 

 

A key part of John's design for the USB REGEN is the careful impedance control of the output. Some of that is lost by adding a long USB cable. He originally wanted to have me solder a short USB 'B' plug pigtail to output of the board, but we decided against that for several reasons, not the least of which was the labor involved and the challenge of obtaining decent pre-made cables with plugs. Plus, it is more flexible to have a USB 'A' output so people can try the REGEN in various applications. (If someone wants to modify their REGEN output with a custom short cable/plug, they are welcome to do so--at their own risk. They could probably stick a rubber grommet in the hole where the 'B' jack was to give the cable some strain relief.)

 

As for strain due to weight or size, the REGEN, with the solid A>B adaptor, weighs about 1.4 ounces (40 grams). So any strain will not come from weight. Rather it will be from the input USB cable and the DC plug cable. Unfortunately, DACs have many different USB input-jack heights, so there is no one-size-fits-all little block/cradle to be offered. Users can get creative--one fellow said he may 3D print a cradle/block for his, though perhaps he will share the model file for others to adjust height and print their own. Me, I use a little foam block that does not slide around. Maybe the REGEN packing box will have a 1"x 1.5" x 2" foam block that might work on one side or another for some users. I have not had time to look for such a thing. Am always open to suggestions.

The REGEN will also come with a 6" USB A>B cable for those who have space issues behind their DAC or due to other jacks/cables.

 

 

 

 

I won't deny that a really good linear PS will slightly improve the SQ from the REGEN. I use the second output of my JS-2, but any decent unit in the 6-9V range with reasonable output capacitance will do nicely as well. So I suspect that many REGEN buyers will experiment.

 

However, when speaking about small supplies (tabletop bricks or wall-warts) that can be included with a product, the choices narrow considerably. Cheap linear PS units of small size are mostly crap for audio system applications.

 

First off, virtually all the reasonable tabletop non-SMPS bricks are not regulated units--just transformer/diode affairs with a small filter cap. They are rather nasty. Then, pretty much all the small, factory regulated linears are wall warts (and the interchangeable plugs for different countries are not available for them). Their current ratings are really low (at least for any I could find in the 6-8V range), and while the REGEN does not need much, the low current linear warts sounded bad--which we suspect is partly due to having just a 1000uF or less filter cap at the output.

 

So after trying a small pile of cheap linears and SMPS of various brands and ratings, I found that the 22W Mean Well (a fairly advanced company producing solid and reliable units meeting stringent specs) was the winner and at a fair price. Their bigger ones, are well, big--and several times the price, and would move the whole kit price up will little gained--better to have people save for a real LPS.

BTW, very low noise SMPS units do exist, but they are really expensive (and not packaged externals)--see the best of them Daitron Ultra Low Noise Switching Power Supply

 

Anyway, in the end we find the REGEN sounds great with the supply I have chosen to include (the Mean Well GS25A07). A big part of that is the power network John designed for it. We use two of the really good TI TPS7A4700 ultra-low noise regulators (those fellas are $4.05 each even at 100+ qty.), plus carefully chosen capacitor sizes.

 

I hope the above answers most of your questions Fred. I know you are a technical guy, and I just wanted you to understand that this is actually a very carefully thought out product.

 

Cheers,

 

--Alex C.

 

Alex,

 

Will the REGEN work with 5 volt power? I have a high quality 5 volt line running to the DAC powering the jcreate hub. I am hoping to re-use it for the REGEN.

[lmitche]

Well I was about to say no, because at least 6 volts is needed to allow one of the regulators to make clean 5V VBUS power (regs need to have some drop to do their thing). But the other regulator--the one for the hub chip and clock serving the REGEN's primary purpose is making just 3.3V and 1.8V. So that side runs fine on 5V.

 

Only thing I don't know is if whatever reduced voltage the REGEN will be putting out on USB pin 1 will be enough for the "all good" handshake with DACs that look for it. The only DACs I have here either don't require ANY USB bus power at all (not even for handshake) or actually run on bus power (one entirely, another just to for the USB input stage). So I can't really test if those DACs that don't draw bus current but do want handshake voltage will work if you only give the REGEN 5V.

 

Maybe John or I will play around with that when we have time, but that is one thing we are both rather short on right now.

 

Ciao,

AJC

 

Thanks Alex, that is very clear. My DAC doesn't need the 5 volts. I removed the 5 volt lead from the hard adapter to the Corning cable, so I know the Vega DAC works without it. Good news.

[lmitche]

would this work as an adapter? could anyone who has it chime in?

 

Looks a bit too fat to me. I bought a handful of these. They fit into the Corning cable just fine.

 

Amazon.com: HDE® USB Type A Male to USB Type B Male Adapter: Computers & Accessories

[lmitche]

I've also been a little annoyed at the length. I could just wind it up, but I'd really like not to. 10m of cable isn't a joke... I wonder if there's any way to shorten it? I've never reterminated an optical cable before...

 

The 10 meter cable comes in a nice coil with Velcro holding it together. You can pull out a few loops to the length you need.

 

I agree a 2 meter version of the cable would be terrific. Actually though, the length is not a big deal for me.

[lmitche]

The Corning USB cable is designed for normal USB 2.0 and 3.0 self powered devices.

[lmitche]

The Corning cable carries little power on the output side (just enough to do the light to electrical signal reversion) and so I think this setup won't work.

 

In my setup, I need to have the hub between the Corning cable and the DAC. Corning cable> HUB> DAC. For me, it won't just work the other way around.

[lmitche]

In my setup, I need to have the hub between the Corning cable and the DAC. Corning cable> HUB> DAC. For me, it won't just work the other way around.

 

Also, the Corning cable does supply enough power to energize the hub.

[lmitche]

Today I got the necessary adapter plug in order to connect the Corning cable as a host the USB 3.0 hub. I then connect the USB hub directly to the DAC with the appropriate adapter. It still doesn't make the handshake. I'm giving up on it, especially since I should have seen from the start the the Corning wasn't going to be the last link to the DAC, which, IMO, would have made more sense.

Pity, though.

 

What is the make and model of the hub that you used before the DAC?

[lmitche]

inland 4-port USB 3.0 Hub

 

Thanks Reverendo,

 

Six months ago, when researching various hubs for the Corning cable, I went to Bestbuy and bought three USB hubs from different manufacturers. One was the J5create, one the Bestbuy house brand, and I can't remember the make of the other. I also bought and tried an Amazon basics hub. The J5create hub was on the list as it received the highest user ratings on Bestbuy for any USB 3 hubs, at least at the time. Of the 4, the J5create just worked. The rest were returned as they either did not work or sounded like crap.

 

You used the the Inland hub which gets users ratings of 3 to 3.6 on Newegg and Microcenter sites, so I am not surprised it didn't work.

 

So I would recommend that you either try the Corning cable with the J5create hub, or wait until we can try one of Superdads REGEN hubs. I will order a REGEN when available and will be happy to share my experience here. There is no way to know if the REGEN will work with the Corning cable until it is tested.

 

At least in my system, the Corning cable sounds great. As I have said before, I am tweaking many things upstream of the Corning cable, and it in no way is a bottleneck to hearing the benefits of the effort. The list of upstream tweaks includes the TPLINK FMCs, Windows server 2012 with Audiophile Optimizer, and many other Minimserver and OS and NIC tweaks too numerous to mention.

[lmitche]

I've read some good things about the Vertere HB. $2,000 meter is a bit pricey, but people seem to like the improvements.

 

Or you could try the 10 meter Corning cable at a hair more than $10.00 per meter. People like the improvements as well.

[lmitche]

Sure, and what do you do with the Corning cable when it fails after a few days of play?

 

I purchased my first Corning USB cable in September and it still works perfectly.

[lmitche]

LOL, but I think it's a little premature to right off the Corning + Green Regen. Recall the sterling job that this combination did on John's workstation. Will Regen Amber + Supra or other decent cable work as well on an electrically noisy PC as Corning + Green ?

 

Plus we have Archimango's report about cleaning up the analog Home Theatre bypass on his home theatre

 

I suspect there is still a place for the Corning on some high RF noise systems, and there may be ways to mitigate the sonic signature of the Corning's ASIC, such as Tellurium Q Black Diamond ;-)

 

I cannot do any Regen testing this weekend as Geoff Armstrong would not le me leave his shop with it in my pocket. So just Corning + solid adapter for me for the next couple of days.

 

You can be sure that my $45 will be hitting Superdad's PayPal on June 10 !

 

Eurodriver,

 

Agreed, the Corning cable is not quite dead yet. It has many properties that are attractive and make it worthwhile.

 

I'm not going to rush to judgement until listening to the Amber REGEN tested with various cable options priced at or below the Corning price point.

 

Also, there are other things going on here that are still not understood. For example, the J5create hub at the host end of my Corning cable still adds clarity. Likewise that much maligned modified hard adapter used between the REGEN and Auralic Vega DAC almost entirely eliminates dropouts when the DAC is in it's fastest clock mode. There is not too much that is subjective about this, I can count the dropout frequency before and after adding the modified adapter.

 

We had a kind of Kickstarter campaign going on here. The success we all had with the Corning cable compelled John to give it a try. It was the consensus opinion of this group that pushed him to do this, not the opinion of one or two people. Happily, his curiosity seems to have lead to a fundamental discovery about USB audio, and that is great news for everyone. I am grateful for his effort, and applaud his curiousity. Likewise it is great that Alex can deliver the results to all of us in such a short time. This is how innovation happens!

 

More innovation has happened in the last year on CA than I have seen in the prior 30 years as an audiophile. It is exciting to be a part of it.

 

Lastly, I am very curious to hear a galvanically isolated Corning cable, and will continue to pursue this goal.

[lmitche]

Jud,

 

You forgot to say that most of us crazies started out sane, and then went crazy overtime with more experience.

[lmitche]

I grab few meters of this cable ... It's the best USB cable I ever seen from mechanical point of view.

 

Then I soldered a pair of connectors from Artemiscable.

 

As a result I've a high-end usb cable with perfect 90Ohms impedance and a very "professional" looking.

 

Strongly suggested.

 

Have a nice day. Massimiliano

Funny, that cable looks rather like this one.

 

http://www.jenving.com/products/cables-on-bobbin-162

[lmitche]

1 hour ago, Em2016 said:

BJC assemble some awesome cables (interconnects, ethernet, speaker cables etc).

 

But they don't assemble their USB 2.0 cables and there's no advantage of their cable over this StarTech High Speed certified USB 2.0 cable:

 

https://www.startech.com/Cables/USB-2.0/USB-2.0-Cables/6-ft-High-Speed-USB-20-Cable~USB2HAB6

 

Except maybe price.

 

I've done the JSSG thing on these cables and they sound great! I use one between my PC and HDD enclosure.

[lmitche]

25 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

 

Nice.

 

Did you solder the tinned copper sleeving to the USB ground (connector)?

 

John said the shield and 'external wire' doesn't need to be tied to the end connectors to be effective but won't harm of course.

 

And did you solder the external wire to the tinner copper sleeve before putting sleeve on, or after?

 

 

I seem to remember John saying attaching to connectors would cause harm. None of mine are connected. No, I didn't solder prior to adding the sleeve.

[lmitche]

33 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

 

But you do have the 'external wire' soldered to the tinned copper sleeve?

 

Or there's no 'external wire'?

Yes, the ends of the sleeves are connected as described.

[lmitche]

25 minutes ago, dbq5anlxj said:

 It's so interesting to read through the whole thread. I just wonder is LH Labs LightSpeed 2G ($179) a good option or Mapleshade Clearlink Pluls ($135) ? I'm new to usb cable which one is a better buy or anything else? thanks

You may want to learn about the Phasure lush cable.

[lmitche]

47 minutes ago, HumanMedia said:

Has anyone tried the Pangea Premier XL USB?

I had one here. My hope of improving SQ with a split cable were dashed after break-in and  first listen. It was returned. YMMV.

[lmitche]

3 hours ago, Kimo said:

 

 

Who doesn't love the comedic insight of Russell Crowe.

And of course Dame Edna, another distinguished Australian.